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Roethlisberger claims revamped offense

 
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Roethlisberger claims revamped offense Reply with quote

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Ben Roethlisberger didn't entirely like the offense, its nuances and terminology. Neither did some of the assistant coaches. Most of all, Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley didn't totally like it, either.

...

“There's been some changes this offseason in some of the offensive philosophies, playbook and some things that I think are good,” Roethlisberger said as he began his 10th season with the team. “It's some compromise from all the different position coaches, the running back coaches, the line, and quarterback coaches. I think we've taken a little bit of everything and made it a lot better.”

...

On Tuesday, it was Roethlisberger who disclosed the offensive changes. “(Running backs coach) Kirby (Wilson) and Randy (Fichtner, the quarterbacks coach) and guys really wanted to contribute and get some points and some things across that they felt could help this team. We all did,” he said. “It was nothing about, ‘Let's change this offense.' It was about, ‘How can we get better?' We're making strides to be better.”


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4053516-74/offense-roethlisberger-steelers#ixzz2U7FsFNJQ


There was another article from the Trib (don't feel like looking it up) that stated the two offensive coaches who left had philosophical differences with Haley. While not a direct quote, coming from the Pittsburgh media it lent a bit of credibility to the notion they were forced out.

It would be nice to see the offense look like a well oiled machine. There's been a pattern of stupid mistakes going back to 2006. Missed opportunities, mediocre redzone production, dropped passes etc that keep games closer than they need to be.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this also. I think this could be a huge year for the steelers. They got rid of some of their over the hill guys and the young guys they have have been developing behind the old vets for a few years now.

A lot of people are sleeping on the steelers around the league, but they had a great draft and seem to have a bunch of young hungry guys who want to prove themselves this year to go along with the few vet holdovers
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key word in this entire article for me is compromise. I'm not suggesting that Ben Roethlisberger made any demands or anything, but let's be honest, it's no secret he and Haley haven't been on the same page. Perhaps the exiting coaches were part of the problem. Having said that, I have no doubt that Ben stated his case on at least a few points regarding the offense and Haley & Co. Took it into consideration. I'm not saying that it resulted in them doing what Ben wants, I believe it would be more accurate to suggest they made changes according to what they feel is best for the offense. But I'm sure part of that, to at least some extent, is what Ben, the leader of the offense, feels most comfortable with. I love that they're making proactive changes, regardless if how they did it is anything close to what I suggested or not, with a young offense hitting the field this season. Really, outside of Ben, Heath, Cotchery, and Plax (assuming the latter two are locks for the roster) are the oldest guys on the roster, that ain't bad imo.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PITTSBURGH -- Happy quarterback, happy team?

Somewhere between that ugly December day in Dallas and Tuesday morning, Ben Roethlisberger decided he liked the Pittsburgh Steelers' offense. The skepticism is gone, the sometimes-churlish remove has left and the Steelers, in their second week of organized team activities, can definitely sense it.



"You can tell out here in practice," center Maurkice Pouncey said. "With Ben taking that bigger role, it's going to be a lot of help to us."

By "bigger role," he means ownership. Roethlisberger spoke last week about a collective, from coordinator Todd Haley to assistants and players, tweaking the offense. Tuesday, running back Jonathan Dwyer said it was No. 7 who had a very real input, who met repeatedly with Haley, who talked through what could work that didn't last year and who now "has a lot more power." Roethlisberger, in typical fashion, said "No" when asked if he could detail his input or the changes -- but he smiled when he said it.

And he did offer this: "We're growing and we're learning and we're communicating. This year, more of us know what's going on, so we can coach each other up instead of always having questions going to coaches to get answers."

For all of his crazy dynamism and all his successes, Roethlisberger has never been a film room rat in the mold of the Manning brothers or Tom Brady. When Haley came in last year, replacing Roethlisberger's buddy Bruce Arians, there was an obvious -- and occasionally cringe-worthy -- feeling out. Fast-forward a year and there were Haley and Roethlisberger, after practice broke up, talking casually on the fields behind the Steelers' facility, loose and -- gasp -- smiling.

Dwyer said there's a better relationship there. Pouncey agreed. And for as much as receiver Emmanuel Sanders likes to maintain that the Haley-Roethlisberger disconnect is a media fabrication, even he acknowledged there's a different vibe this year.

"They've grown to know each other, their families and things of that sort, so of course they've grown to get comfortable with each other," Sanders said.

The net of that and time invested in meetings, Sanders said, is Haley giving Roethlisberger more control at the line of scrimmage. Roethlisberger won't be calling his own game, but he has more leeway in making check-downs and hot reads -- things he wasn't doing much of last year.

"Coach Haley came last year and they were trying to get acclimated," Sanders said. "Coach Haley didn't know him and he didn't know Coach Haley. The more and more comfortable they get, the more and more control he's going to give Ben."

And so, there is a spring in the start of the Steelers' spring. A year after managing just the 21st-best offense, Pittsburgh is installing some outside zone, aiming to stretch the width of the field and open up those cutback lanes for backs. As for the length of the field, sure, the Steelers' biggest playmaker went off to Miami (where he's still speaking without thinking and then taking to Twitter to take it back). But for as blazingly fast as Mike Wallace is, these Steelers have speed, too. And Sanders, flush with confidence after the Steelers' matched the Patriots' offer to him, was unapologetic about it.

"I ran a 4.3, Antonio Brown ran a 4.3, (rookie Markus) Wheaton ran a 4.3," Sanders said, ticking off 40 times. "We all can run, we all can stretch the field."



Roethlisberger lobbied to keep Sanders when the Patriots tried poaching him. And Tuesday, Plaxico Burress similarly threw his faith behind Brown, boldly saying the 24-year-old "can be one of the most feared receivers in the league this year."

Most everyone likes their team in May. Yet Burress was so convincing when he called tough veteran Jerricho Cotchery "Mr. Consistency" and then promised the Steelers have everything in-house that they'll need on the receiving end.

Of course, sometimes a quarterback can make a superstar receiver. (See: annual leading wideouts for Brady, Tom or Manning, Eli.) And a happy quarterback definitely can make happy teammates.

Follow Aditi Kinkhabwala on Twitter @AKinkhabwala.



Quote:
Coming off an 8-8 season in Pittsburgh, the Steelers have plenty to point to when pondering what went wrong in 2012.

For starters, Ben Roethlisberger never warmed up to Todd Haley's philosophy on offense, which favored the ground game and offered the veteran quarterback less of a chance to call his own plays.

Has Big Ben had a change of heart?

NFL.com's Aditi Kinkhabwala wrote Wednesday that -- somewhere between the end of last season and the hopeful days of May -- Roethlisberger "decided he liked the Steelers' offense."

One reason for the optimism: Big Ben has been given more of a voice in how they'll move the ball this season. Running back Jonathan Dwyer told Kinkhabwala that Roethlisberger now "has a lot more power" in how the game plan is constructed.

That's encouraging, because every quarterback worth his salt wants to call his own plays, and few do a better job than Roethlisberger. He's one of the NFL's premier improvisers.

It's easy to forget that Roethlisberger was off to an MVP-level start last season before injuries unraveled his campaign and left Pittsburgh in the dust. Check out Aditi's report on why we might see a happier, more productive Big Ben this time around.


Looks like my suggestion that Ben had some input wasn't far off.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roethlisberger new exactly what he was doing when he made those comments, and it was obvious, as you said, that he had a lot of input. This bothers me right here:

Quote:
"Coach Haley came last year and they were trying to get acclimated," Sanders said. "Coach Haley didn't know him and he didn't know Coach Haley. The more and more comfortable they get, the more and more control he's going to give Ben."


Haley should have recognized he was coming into an established organization with a veteran/franchise QB. Why did Roeth have to earn Haley's trust? #7 has always been underrated as a pocket passer. He was very good calling his own plays and when in the no huddle. Has been throughout his career.

If Haley wants to learn and get better as a coach, he needs more humility. Hopefully last year gave it to him. He made some poor decisions last season, and the last few games were a complete cluster [inappropriate/removed]. There was an obvious clash between the QB and OC. The OC cared more about what he was comfortable with than his players from day 1.

I still can't get over that Bengals disaster. It felt like Haley giving Ben the middle finger, with the Cleveland game being the icing on the cake. I don't want a beaten down Roethlisberger.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Roethlisberger new exactly what he was doing when he made those comments, and it was obvious, as you said, that he had a lot of input. This bothers me right here:

Quote:
"Coach Haley came last year and they were trying to get acclimated," Sanders said. "Coach Haley didn't know him and he didn't know Coach Haley. The more and more comfortable they get, the more and more control he's going to give Ben."


Haley should have recognized he was coming into an established organization with a veteran/franchise QB. Why did Roeth have to earn Haley's trust? #7 has always been underrated as a pocket passer. He was very good calling his own plays and when in the no huddle. Has been throughout his career.

If Haley wants to learn and get better as a coach, he needs more humility. Hopefully last year gave it to him. He made some poor decisions last season, and the last few games were a complete cluster [inappropriate/removed]. There was an obvious clash between the QB and OC. The OC cared more about what he was comfortable with than his players from day 1.

I still can't get over that Bengals disaster. It felt like Haley giving Ben the middle finger, with the Cleveland game being the icing on the cake. I don't want a beaten down Roethlisberger.


You're a 100% Right. The thing about our offense is that everyone must know their role and Ben's role is "Boss" and Haley's role is "Stool Pigeon".

lol, no Seriously though, in order for this offense to work Ben has to be comfortable, he should never have had to earn anyone's trust, it seems like Haley felt he needed to come in here and humble Ben and when that didn't work, he felt like perhaps it was time to start working with him.
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LTF


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Haley didn't even like the offense HE designed and HE installed last year? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

It's good to hear changes are coming though. I said all last year his system didn't fit the talent on the roster and was doomed for failure unless significant changes were made. It was artificially inflated by playing one of the easiest schedules an offense could have faced last year and they still only finished as the 22nd scoring offense. The changes and improvements hopefully are real and not just offseason talk otherwise they'll continue to struggle leading to Haley's eventual (and then deserved) firing.
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
So Haley didn't even like the offense HE designed and HE installed last year? That doesn't make a lot of sense.


So no coach ever makes wrong choices and isn't allowed to learn from those bad decisions? A lot of coaches make changes every off season.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDLefebvre wrote:
LTF wrote:
So Haley didn't even like the offense HE designed and HE installed last year? That doesn't make a lot of sense.


So no coach ever makes wrong choices and isn't allowed to learn from those bad decisions? A lot of coaches make changes every off season.


Furthermore, I think that it was more than that. I think it was a matter of Ben not being comfortable with Haley and vice versa, so Haley came in and put in his offense, a bland, unchanged offense, knowing that after Arians leaving he wasn't going to be able to make people happy no matter what. He ran with it for a season, analyzed it, addressed the problems, things between Ben and Haley are looking better now, and I expect we'll see a much better offense on the field.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the problem with the offense last season was that four of the starters weren't good fits for the new system. Todd Haley prefers a "zone" blocking scheme, and Max Starks and Willie Colon aren't athletic enough for it. Mike Wallace is a better fit in Bruce Arians' offense, considering the only thing he does consistently well is run deep routes. And Rashard Mendehnall isn't a good fit anywhere in the NFL with his attitude and lack of heart. There's a reason he took a one-year deal from the Cardinals: because they were the only team who wanted him in any capacity.

And I'm glad that Sean Kugler and Scottie Montgomery are gone. For all the hype when Kugler first arrived in Pittsburgh, his offensive line never lived up to the expectations. And the WRs started that "Young Money" garbage on Montgomery's watch, which shows that he never taught them how to stay properly focused -- and the proof was in the WRs' performance on the field, whether it was Antonio Brown's back-breaking fumbles against the Raiders and Cowboys, Emmanuel Sanders' unforced fumble in the second game against the Ravens, or Mike Wallace's across-the-board statistical decline.

With a more athletic offensive line, a new offensive line coach, a new RB who fits the system well, a problem child WR gone, and a more symbiotic relationship between Haley and his players, I think the offense will become more productive this season than it's ever been before.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rygar wrote:
Part of the problem with the offense last season was that four of the starters weren't good fits for the new system. Todd Haley prefers a "zone" blocking scheme, and Max Starks and Willie Colon aren't athletic enough for it. Mike Wallace is a better fit in Bruce Arians' offense, considering the only thing he does consistently well is run deep routes. And Rashard Mendehnall isn't a good fit anywhere in the NFL with his attitude and lack of heart. There's a reason he took a one-year deal from the Cardinals: because they were the only team who wanted him in any capacity.

And I'm glad that Sean Kugler and Scottie Montgomery are gone. For all the hype when Kugler first arrived in Pittsburgh, his offensive line never lived up to the expectations. And the WRs started that "Young Money" garbage on Montgomery's watch, which shows that he never taught them how to stay properly focused -- and the proof was in the WRs' performance on the field, whether it was Antonio Brown's back-breaking fumbles against the Raiders and Cowboys, Emmanuel Sanders' unforced fumble in the second game against the Ravens, or Mike Wallace's across-the-board statistical decline.

With a more athletic offensive line, a new offensive line coach, a new RB who fits the system well, a problem child WR gone, and a more symbiotic relationship between Haley and his players, I think the offense will become more productive this season than it's ever been before.


I essentially agree with all of this.

The one thing I worry about is continued red zone struggles. We still lack a red zone receiver that can win a physical battle heads up against a CB, we still have Ben at QB who likes to wait for someone to break open instead of throwing them open, we will most likely be without Miller for a good chunk of the season, we still lack an OL that can dominate at the GL, and that same OL until proven otherwise is wont to give up stupid penalties in the other teams end (with Colon gone I do have hope here).

I think we will click between the 20's but, unfortunately, I see Suisham being a busy man again this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rygar wrote:
And I'm glad that Sean Kugler and Scottie Montgomery are gone. For all the hype when Kugler first arrived in Pittsburgh, his offensive line never lived up to the expectations. And the WRs started that "Young Money" garbage on Montgomery's watch, which shows that he never taught them how to stay properly focused -- and the proof was in the WRs' performance on the field, whether it was Antonio Brown's back-breaking fumbles against the Raiders and Cowboys, Emmanuel Sanders' unforced fumble in the second game against the Ravens, or Mike Wallace's across-the-board statistical decline.

With a more athletic offensive line, a new offensive line coach, a new RB who fits the system well, a problem child WR gone, and a more symbiotic relationship between Haley and his players, I think the offense will become more productive this season than it's ever been before.


GREAT comments, all of them. Kugler was supposed to be a savior. Anybody notice how Buffalo, whose offfensive line sucked for years, magically got good once Kugler left?

I'm torn on Montgomery. We have to acknowledge that Wallace, Brown, and Sanders were all pretty darn good-to-great values as draft picks, but I wonder who is the one to point at as being primarily responsible for the success of those WRs? Did we get lucky 3 straight times, or did they develop under Montgomery? Was Arians the one with the eye for WRs, or was it the former collegiate WR and WR coach for William & Mary?

As for the red zone issue, one of the biggest things is that everything that helps make Ben great also causes difficulties in the red zone. Can't run around waiting for guys to get open when there is a highly compressed field of play
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think redzone issues start with the line and a lack of a play-action game. Even teams that don't run the ball successfully still use play-action more effectively than the Steelers have since Arians took over. I think Arians also had some issues with route distribution that was exposed more in the redzone.

As far as drafting WR's, there seems to be a point where the team gave up on reaching for big WR's and decided to go with the smaller guys. Brown, Sanders and Wallace were all great athletes. I don't see how coaching particularly contributed to their development. I look at Arians in Indy, and I think he definitely has an eye for WR talent and the guys who fit his system. I think Colbert has also developed a comfort zone drafting guys who fit a certain mold.
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