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Re-Ranking the roster: #8
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Who's our 8th best player?
Chris Clemons
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Brandon Mebane
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Kam Chancellor
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Bobby Wagner
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
KJ Wright
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cliff Avril
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Antoine Winfield
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Michael Bennett
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 20

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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 3553
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
That's the only stretch where Brandon has been absent, making it a small sample size, but also effective in showcasing his impact on the line.


Maybe in 2010, but it's 2013 now and all of that is living in the past. If Mebane played like that in 2012, I'd have no issue with him being #8 on this list.

But now that it's 2013, I'll bring up some recent numbers. For a guy who is the "anchor of our defensive line" and the "foundation of the team", it's weird to think that in the second half of 2012 teams averaged 5.3 YPC against us, which ranked last in the NFL. It's weird to think that 5 of the last 8 teams we faced gained over 100 yards rushing as a team, and one of the 3 times we didn't was the blowout win versus Arizona.

I'm not buying Mebane being as good as you think he is with present day numbers such as that. You can say that reflects poorly on the team, but if you're going to label a guy as the "anchor in our defensive line", it reflects poorly on him.


When teams adjusted to trap run plays that the niners exposed us with, it was on Gus Bradley for not making, or being able to come up with, the adjustment. I'll find the article that showcased how much more trap runs were used against us after week 7 (if i can). They're designed to take the interior lineman out of the play.


Here we go. This is some good stuff and this is what I wanted out of the debate. I'd love to read the article. I read that KJ Wright had never even seen a trap play prior to the 49ers game, so you actually have a foundation there.


.....but that's not what matters Laughing


Sure it is. This is my world, ya'll just living in it Wink


Laughing

Quote:
San Francisco found its success by catching the Seahawks with some trap runs, especially in the second half that led to big running lanes for Gore.

It was a smart move schematically as the Seahawks were unprepared. Linebacker K.J. Wright said this week he'd never seen a trap play before until the 49ers ran one.

"I was lost. I was like 'what was going on?'" Wright said.

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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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imani


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not the article, but this touches on it.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/12/20/2409103/hawks-need-run-stuffing-d-to-return.html

This touches on it


Quote:
“Their run game is kind of tricky,” Seattle linebacker Bobby Wagner said. “They’ll pull the guards right and the fullback will go left, and the ball will follow the guards one play, and the fullback the next play. So you have to make sure you’re on your keys and do a lot of film study.”


Quote:
Including the first San Francisco game, Seattle has given up at least 132 rushing yards in six of its past eight contests.


Quote:
“Whams, traps, powers, counters – everything known to man,” joked Seahawks defensive line coach Todd Wash, when asked about the diversity of runs San Francisco used against his defensive front earlier this season.


Quote:
“A lot of it is we got out of whack just with some fundamental things – not really reading our keys and fitting into our gaps,” Wash said. “So we’re just preaching sticking with our fundamentals this week.”



It's an instance where the youth of this defense worked against us.
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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imani


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Wright and Wagner getting another offseason I'm willing to bet a good amount that San Fran's run game won't be effective like it was week at all this year. Especially with the addition of proven run defenders like Bennett and Winfield (especially, as he could spot these things at the LOS and help with in-game adjustment).
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'd probably have to go back and look at the games, but how prevalent were these traps after the San Fran game with other teams? Most teams aren't going to change their blocking system for one opponent, so I'd be surprised to hear that it was used a lot.
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DudeWhat?? wrote:
If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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imani


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
I guess I'd probably have to go back and look at the games, but how prevalent were these traps after the San Fran game with other teams? Most teams aren't going to change their blocking system for one opponent, so I'd be surprised to hear that it was used a lot.


I'll see if I can find it, definitely couldn't tell you off-hand.
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
SoS wrote:
imani wrote:
That's the only stretch where Brandon has been absent, making it a small sample size, but also effective in showcasing his impact on the line.


Maybe in 2010, but it's 2013 now and all of that is living in the past. If Mebane played like that in 2012, I'd have no issue with him being #8 on this list.

But now that it's 2013, I'll bring up some recent numbers. For a guy who is the "anchor of our defensive line" and the "foundation of the team", it's weird to think that in the second half of 2012 teams averaged 5.3 YPC against us, which ranked last in the NFL. It's weird to think that 5 of the last 8 teams we faced gained over 100 yards rushing as a team, and one of the 3 times we didn't was the blowout win versus Arizona.

I'm not buying Mebane being as good as you think he is with present day numbers such as that. You can say that reflects poorly on the team, but if you're going to label a guy as the "anchor in our defensive line", it reflects poorly on him.


When teams adjusted to trap run plays that the niners exposed us with, it was on Gus Bradley for not making, or being able to come up with, the adjustment. I'll find the article that showcased how much more trap runs were used against us after week 7 (if i can). They're designed to take the interior lineman out of the play and free up another purposely.


The Redskins ran some traps out of their ZBS and gashed the defense as well. From what I can remember off my head, the linebackers struggled more so than the lineman, because they weren't hitting the open gaps formed by the trap plays (which supports what KJ Wright said about never seeing a trap play before).
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KayJayz


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to put Chancellor, Clemons, Winfield, and Wagner ahead of Mebane at this point. Our run D dropped off the face of the earth down the stretch, he will have to step it up to get his top-player status back.
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bobob123


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it's a toss-up between Chancellor and Wagner... I went with Wagner because he came in as a rookie and took over the play calls and became a leader late in the season and helped this unit become the 4th best in the league last year.
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imani


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't find the damn article
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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imani


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing as the poll is close between 4 people, with no further votes, there's no point in making another thread

WE NEED MORE VOTES
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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KayJayz


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's get this show on the road. Start a tie breaker between Mebane and Wagner???
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KayJayz wrote:
I would have to put Chancellor, Clemons, Winfield, and Wagner ahead of Mebane at this point. Our run D dropped off the face of the earth down the stretch, he will have to step it up to get his top-player status back.
I'd blame that on pretty much everyone else on the DL. Mebane is the only guy who consistently held his ground.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'll put the 2013 Seahawks one spot over the 2008 Steelers on the Top 10
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
KayJayz wrote:
I would have to put Chancellor, Clemons, Winfield, and Wagner ahead of Mebane at this point. Our run D dropped off the face of the earth down the stretch, he will have to step it up to get his top-player status back.
I'd blame that on pretty much everyone else on the DL. Mebane is the only guy who consistently held his ground.


Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but what exactly are you basing this off of?
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
KayJayz wrote:
I would have to put Chancellor, Clemons, Winfield, and Wagner ahead of Mebane at this point. Our run D dropped off the face of the earth down the stretch, he will have to step it up to get his top-player status back.
I'd blame that on pretty much everyone else on the DL. Mebane is the only guy who consistently held his ground.


Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but what exactly are you basing this off of?
Observation. When I say held his ground, that's pretty literal. We're talking about DL playing the run. Mebane occasionally got moved off the ball, but generally speaking he forced double teams and created havoc when he wasn't doubled.

Red Bryant did very little against the run, especially the 2nd half of the year. He was getting moved all over the field by smaller guys.

Alan Branch was so hit or miss. He was probably our best run defender against the Redskins, but never really consistent.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'll put the 2013 Seahawks one spot over the 2008 Steelers on the Top 10
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SoS


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Red was essentially useless down the stretch.

But I really think you're overstating how Mebane "created havoc" when he wasn't doubled. I'm willing to bet that if I looked back to the games where we were getting gashed Mebane was not a guy the opposition consistently doubled and yet he was still nearly nonexistent late in the year.
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