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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:



I understand the circus following Tebow, but Emery and Trestman seem to be savvy enough not to let that bother them, and you know Jay wouldn't give two squirts about the media's opinions. He knows he's the starter and he knows he's working for a huge contract, so whoever is the back up isn't a priority for him at all.


This is just a huge assumption. Your assuming that Trestman and Emery wont care if Cutler has a bad game and Tebow's fan base starts screaming for him to start everyday. It'll be all over ESPN and NFL Network.

Your also assuming that Cutler wont be pissed because of the circus that has now engulfed the team.

As for attempting to fix him well thats just a giant waist of time. The chances are that you completely overhaul his mechanics(fixing that problem) and fix him mentally are slim to none(Nobody has done it yet and for a good reason). Plus then you have the circus added onto it. Lets stop talking about Tebow. I'd rather have Josh McCown as the backup everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is no "Tebow fan base" in Chicago even among those of us not in the lynch mob to run him out of the league.


Oh I think your very wrong on that one. Thankfully we wont have to see first hand if thats right or wrong.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:

Of course it is an assumption, hence why I said "seem." If Rex Ryan wouldn't give in I'd hope Emery could hire someone with at least the same level of confidence in his own choices. Jay is likely the most hated guy in the league due to the media, they didn't cave with Campbell, why cave because there are more people crying? I'd hope Emery had the balls to think he knew better than Skip Bayless, if not we're going to have the same success as with Angelo.

Who has tried? You're making an even bigger assumption than I did, by far. Who was a QB guru for the NYJ? And did you get to see any of DEN's practices? Do you know if they focused on him much? Because I remember Orton starting and Tebow jumping in on basically trying to help the team stay afloat. I don't remember Elway giving any support to Tim, he didn't even want him, so why put time and energy into improving his game for the long term? You're basically throwing Jay in the same boat as his mechanics have been off his whole career, throwing off his back foot, etc. McDaniels was the one who wanted to develop him and he never had a chance due to getting fired. You're just making a passive argument without any real substance.

I don't care if people want Tim or not, I have no belief he will get signed by the Bears, but if anyone is saying Russell is going to man up and change his entire approach in life, to be the gym rat and film junkie like an elite player, and display skills like throwing someone open or reading defenses then I am highly skeptical. He won't put the work in to make that jump, that is why he was so dismal in the NFL, while having such a great "potential." But to compound that while saying Tim can't simply get his mechanics tightened up and get coached up to be just an average QB? Ludicrous.


Who the hell is saying for sure that Russel is going to man up and change his life?

You should know the QB coach for the Jets last years....he is our QB coach. The Broncos and the Jets have tried. All you have to do is read about what they are doing during training camp to understand they were trying to make his mechanics more crisp. Basically trying to shorten that long throwing motion that gets him in trouble.

As for your argument with Cutler and the media thats just silly. There are a few calling him to get benched. But most of it is he's a wuss and cant man up. That argument isnt even remotely the same.

I didnt throw Jay into any boat. My argument is simple. The circus is worse with Tebow. If I had to choose I would take Russell.

Oh and btw Rex Ryan put a black mark on his resume with this signing. You think Phil would take that chance looking at where Ryan is right now?

You know something that's also funny. Russell has gotten more interest in the past few days than Tim Tebow has since he has been released.


Matt Cavanaugh is the QB COACH, he is not a QB GURU as I said. He obviously did not elevate Sanchez at all, and I don't expect him to make a difference at all being here. Training camp isn't long enough to correct a throwing motion that is ingrained into their brain after 15+years of repetition. Thinking a few weeks will change that is a weak attempt, it is something that has to be worked on for years.

There are a lot of people calling Cutler more than a wuss, many are saying he isn't a starter quality, not a franchise QB, etc. If he has a mediocre year they likely will won't stop either, as he might not get resigned. Granted, I think the lack of talent and coaching ability has been his downfall.

I said that based purely on the topic of Tebow needing mechanics overworked. While obviously Jay needs nowhere the work that Tim is needing, your statement made it sound like trying to alter mechanics was going to be a fruitless endeavor. If you mean just at the level that Tebow would require, then that is much more of a reasonable argument, as there is a MAJOR need to overhaul Tebow's technique.

What? Rex Ryan never wanted Tebow at all. Mike Tannenbaum was the one who made it happen. I could be wrong but I really thought that was in several reports. If I am mistaken then nevermind, but I though Mike was the one who basically made it happen regardless of what any coaches wanted.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:

Of course it is an assumption, hence why I said "seem." If Rex Ryan wouldn't give in I'd hope Emery could hire someone with at least the same level of confidence in his own choices. Jay is likely the most hated guy in the league due to the media, they didn't cave with Campbell, why cave because there are more people crying? I'd hope Emery had the balls to think he knew better than Skip Bayless, if not we're going to have the same success as with Angelo.

Who has tried? You're making an even bigger assumption than I did, by far. Who was a QB guru for the NYJ? And did you get to see any of DEN's practices? Do you know if they focused on him much? Because I remember Orton starting and Tebow jumping in on basically trying to help the team stay afloat. I don't remember Elway giving any support to Tim, he didn't even want him, so why put time and energy into improving his game for the long term? You're basically throwing Jay in the same boat as his mechanics have been off his whole career, throwing off his back foot, etc. McDaniels was the one who wanted to develop him and he never had a chance due to getting fired. You're just making a passive argument without any real substance.

I don't care if people want Tim or not, I have no belief he will get signed by the Bears, but if anyone is saying Russell is going to man up and change his entire approach in life, to be the gym rat and film junkie like an elite player, and display skills like throwing someone open or reading defenses then I am highly skeptical. He won't put the work in to make that jump, that is why he was so dismal in the NFL, while having such a great "potential." But to compound that while saying Tim can't simply get his mechanics tightened up and get coached up to be just an average QB? Ludicrous.


Who the hell is saying for sure that Russel is going to man up and change his life?

You should know the QB coach for the Jets last years....he is our QB coach. The Broncos and the Jets have tried. All you have to do is read about what they are doing during training camp to understand they were trying to make his mechanics more crisp. Basically trying to shorten that long throwing motion that gets him in trouble.

As for your argument with Cutler and the media thats just silly. There are a few calling him to get benched. But most of it is he's a wuss and cant man up. That argument isnt even remotely the same.

I didnt throw Jay into any boat. My argument is simple. The circus is worse with Tebow. If I had to choose I would take Russell.

Oh and btw Rex Ryan put a black mark on his resume with this signing. You think Phil would take that chance looking at where Ryan is right now?

You know something that's also funny. Russell has gotten more interest in the past few days than Tim Tebow has since he has been released.


Matt Cavanaugh is the QB COACH, he is not a QB GURU as I said. He obviously did not elevate Sanchez at all, and I don't expect him to make a difference at all being here. Training camp isn't long enough to correct a throwing motion that is ingrained into their brain after 15+years of repetition. Thinking a few weeks will change that is a weak attempt, it is something that has to be worked on for years.

What? Rex Ryan never wanted Tebow at all. Mike Tannenbaum was the one who made it happen. I could be wrong but I really thought that was in several reports. If I am mistaken then nevermind, but I though Mike was the one who basically made it happen regardless of what any coaches wanted.


Thanks for making my point. Trying to correct his hideous mechanics is a waist of time. It needs to be completely broken down and revamped. He isnt worth the amount of time it would take to correct that.

I should have been more clear on the last point. The entire situation with Ryan and the way he was utilized. It wasnt handled correctly at all.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

***Update***
Quote:
Bears had no plans to sign any of 3 QBs working out today but Jamarcus Russell did weigh in at 267 lbs. Good for him, regardless.


https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/343085653711523840

Quote:
JaMarcus Russell is willing to play in Canada if he doesn't sign with an NFL team, per @JeffGarciaJGFA , who has trained him


http://twitter.com/mortreport/statuses/343087293067837440
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
***Update***
Quote:
Bears had no plans to sign any of 3 QBs working out today but Jamarcus Russell did weigh in at 267 lbs. Good for him, regardless.


Pretty much the opposite of what the "sky is falling" crowd wanted to believe.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:

Of course it is an assumption, hence why I said "seem." If Rex Ryan wouldn't give in I'd hope Emery could hire someone with at least the same level of confidence in his own choices. Jay is likely the most hated guy in the league due to the media, they didn't cave with Campbell, why cave because there are more people crying? I'd hope Emery had the balls to think he knew better than Skip Bayless, if not we're going to have the same success as with Angelo.

Who has tried? You're making an even bigger assumption than I did, by far. Who was a QB guru for the NYJ? And did you get to see any of DEN's practices? Do you know if they focused on him much? Because I remember Orton starting and Tebow jumping in on basically trying to help the team stay afloat. I don't remember Elway giving any support to Tim, he didn't even want him, so why put time and energy into improving his game for the long term? You're basically throwing Jay in the same boat as his mechanics have been off his whole career, throwing off his back foot, etc. McDaniels was the one who wanted to develop him and he never had a chance due to getting fired. You're just making a passive argument without any real substance.

I don't care if people want Tim or not, I have no belief he will get signed by the Bears, but if anyone is saying Russell is going to man up and change his entire approach in life, to be the gym rat and film junkie like an elite player, and display skills like throwing someone open or reading defenses then I am highly skeptical. He won't put the work in to make that jump, that is why he was so dismal in the NFL, while having such a great "potential." But to compound that while saying Tim can't simply get his mechanics tightened up and get coached up to be just an average QB? Ludicrous.


Who the hell is saying for sure that Russel is going to man up and change his life?

You should know the QB coach for the Jets last years....he is our QB coach. The Broncos and the Jets have tried. All you have to do is read about what they are doing during training camp to understand they were trying to make his mechanics more crisp. Basically trying to shorten that long throwing motion that gets him in trouble.

As for your argument with Cutler and the media thats just silly. There are a few calling him to get benched. But most of it is he's a wuss and cant man up. That argument isnt even remotely the same.

I didnt throw Jay into any boat. My argument is simple. The circus is worse with Tebow. If I had to choose I would take Russell.

Oh and btw Rex Ryan put a black mark on his resume with this signing. You think Phil would take that chance looking at where Ryan is right now?

You know something that's also funny. Russell has gotten more interest in the past few days than Tim Tebow has since he has been released.


Matt Cavanaugh is the QB COACH, he is not a QB GURU as I said. He obviously did not elevate Sanchez at all, and I don't expect him to make a difference at all being here. Training camp isn't long enough to correct a throwing motion that is ingrained into their brain after 15+years of repetition. Thinking a few weeks will change that is a weak attempt, it is something that has to be worked on for years.

What? Rex Ryan never wanted Tebow at all. Mike Tannenbaum was the one who made it happen. I could be wrong but I really thought that was in several reports. If I am mistaken then nevermind, but I though Mike was the one who basically made it happen regardless of what any coaches wanted.


Thanks for making my point. Trying to correct his hideous mechanics is a waist of time. It needs to be completely broken down and revamped. He isnt worth the amount of time it would take to correct that.

I should have been more clear on the last point. The entire situation with Ryan and the way he was utilized. It wasnt handled correctly at all.


I do want to point out I wouldn't want to count on him, the only benefit to having him is getting a cheap QB who, while not going to make an impact in the passing game, will still be able to keep the run game going strong, as I don't think there was a viable back up that would keep the passing game going at all in FA this year. He helped DEN lead the NFL in rushing, and I think it is safe to assume all of us would trust in Forte to be better than Willis McGahee. When we have lost Jay, Forte's numbers dropped pretty sharply. I don't think he got 100 yards combined in the 2 games Jay was out.

But more or less we seem to agree for the most part. I hope we get a developmental QB in the next draft, and would be happy with up to a 3rd getting used on one if they showed some real promise.
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Selkiesxx


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still wouldn't mind Trent Edwards. I really believe he'd be a pretty decent backup under Trestman.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:



I understand the circus following Tebow, but Emery and Trestman seem to be savvy enough not to let that bother them, and you know Jay wouldn't give two squirts about the media's opinions. He knows he's the starter and he knows he's working for a huge contract, so whoever is the back up isn't a priority for him at all.


This is just a huge assumption. Your assuming that Trestman and Emery wont care if Cutler has a bad game and Tebow's fan base starts screaming for him to start everyday. It'll be all over ESPN and NFL Network.

Your also assuming that Cutler wont be pissed because of the circus that has now engulfed the team.

As for attempting to fix him well thats just a giant waist of time. The chances are that you completely overhaul his mechanics(fixing that problem) and fix him mentally are slim to none(Nobody has done it yet and for a good reason). Plus then you have the circus added onto it. Lets stop talking about Tebow. I'd rather have Josh McCown as the backup everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is no "Tebow fan base" in Chicago even among those of us not in the lynch mob to run him out of the league.


Oh I think your very wrong on that one. Thankfully we wont have to see first hand if thats right or wrong.
Certainly there is no interest among the posters here which does not necessarily reflect the opinion of most Bears but is telling. I have seen zero interest in Tebow among any Bears fans. Many are intrigued by his athleticism but that is it.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:



I understand the circus following Tebow, but Emery and Trestman seem to be savvy enough not to let that bother them, and you know Jay wouldn't give two squirts about the media's opinions. He knows he's the starter and he knows he's working for a huge contract, so whoever is the back up isn't a priority for him at all.


This is just a huge assumption. Your assuming that Trestman and Emery wont care if Cutler has a bad game and Tebow's fan base starts screaming for him to start everyday. It'll be all over ESPN and NFL Network.

Your also assuming that Cutler wont be pissed because of the circus that has now engulfed the team.

As for attempting to fix him well thats just a giant waist of time. The chances are that you completely overhaul his mechanics(fixing that problem) and fix him mentally are slim to none(Nobody has done it yet and for a good reason). Plus then you have the circus added onto it. Lets stop talking about Tebow. I'd rather have Josh McCown as the backup everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is no "Tebow fan base" in Chicago even among those of us not in the lynch mob to run him out of the league.

I think you're grossly underestimating how much Chicagoans love backup QBs. This is the city that burned their starting QB's jersey in the Soldier Field parking lots with little to no knowledge of why he didn't finish the game and then spent the better part of a year continuing to insist that Caleb Hanie was better only to deny any of that ever happened.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of Russell: for as much flak as Russell takes for being a monumental draft bust, he almost entirely overshadows Brady Quinn. Quinn was pegged as a possible #1 or #2 pick (or at least a top 10) before he fell to #22. Some of Quinn's career stats are worse than Russell's, granted it's on 130 fewer attempts but nonetheless.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
On the subject of Russell: for as much flak as Russell takes for being a monumental draft bust, he almost entirely overshadows Brady Quinn. Quinn was pegged as a possible #1 or #2 pick (or at least a top 10) before he fell to #22. Some of Quinn's career stats are worse than Russell's, granted it's on 130 fewer attempts but nonetheless.

With some of the trash QBs around the league it has always surprised me that Quinn never got more of a chance somewhere. I'm no ND homer by any stretch but you can't convince me he doesn't have at least as much potential as guys like Matt Moore, Tyler Thigpen or Chad Henne, and those guys have had more extensive looks as starters. Heck Seattle just signed Tarvaris Jackson today and he is dreadful.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
IronMike84 wrote:
On the subject of Russell: for as much flak as Russell takes for being a monumental draft bust, he almost entirely overshadows Brady Quinn. Quinn was pegged as a possible #1 or #2 pick (or at least a top 10) before he fell to #22. Some of Quinn's career stats are worse than Russell's, granted it's on 130 fewer attempts but nonetheless.

With some of the trash QBs around the league it has always surprised me that Quinn never got more of a chance somewhere. I'm no ND homer by any stretch but you can't convince me he doesn't have at least as much potential as guys like Matt Moore, Tyler Thigpen or Chad Henne, and those guys have had more extensive looks as starters. Heck Seattle just signed Tarvaris Jackson today and he is dreadful.

It's very weird how nobody has taken him on as a reclamation project. And Tavaris Jackson probably will beat out Quinn in Seattle, too.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:



I understand the circus following Tebow, but Emery and Trestman seem to be savvy enough not to let that bother them, and you know Jay wouldn't give two squirts about the media's opinions. He knows he's the starter and he knows he's working for a huge contract, so whoever is the back up isn't a priority for him at all.


This is just a huge assumption. Your assuming that Trestman and Emery wont care if Cutler has a bad game and Tebow's fan base starts screaming for him to start everyday. It'll be all over ESPN and NFL Network.

Your also assuming that Cutler wont be pissed because of the circus that has now engulfed the team.

As for attempting to fix him well thats just a giant waist of time. The chances are that you completely overhaul his mechanics(fixing that problem) and fix him mentally are slim to none(Nobody has done it yet and for a good reason). Plus then you have the circus added onto it. Lets stop talking about Tebow. I'd rather have Josh McCown as the backup everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is no "Tebow fan base" in Chicago even among those of us not in the lynch mob to run him out of the league.

I think you're grossly underestimating how much Chicagoans love backup QBs. This is the city that burned their starting QB's jersey in the Soldier Field parking lots with little to no knowledge of why he didn't finish the game and then spent the better part of a year continuing to insist that Caleb Hanie was better only to deny any of that ever happened.
Don't confuse the actions of certain drunks with those of intelligent fans. VERY few people fit within your description, even fewer sober ones. When a QB showed he could play well there is never any interest in backup QBs. My estimate is less than 5% of fans would put our backup in ahead of Cutler. Our problem has been keeping starters on their feet for even a year at a stretch. Now if we could be convinced Tebow could play for years on end there might be some interest. But old time Bears fans have seen him before and he was named Bobby Douglas.
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