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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.


Literally all they had on the roster was James Starks and Alex Green. Neither had played a full season. They barely have a thousand yards between them. This is not "coming to a different conclusion now Philbin is gone." Like he was their head coach or GM. He was only an OC.
This was putting bodies where there where none. You want to call Eddy Lacy who ran behind Top NFL caliber linemen "top end", fine. But this was a clear position of need regardless of their perceived philosophy on the position.

When you build any football team there are areas where your scheme requires more out of some areas than others. No one is going to put a pro bowler at every position. But each area can still contribute positively. Miller avg. more ypc. than anybody on the 2012 packers and we still drafted another solid to above average back.

For the record I'm not predicting any success or failure from any Dolphin. But I do know that moving up a perceived depth chart at the running back position is a whole lot less dramatic than doing it at any other position, since carries will be shared and they have down specific skill sets. I think it's too early to be saying "clearly" this or "it's pretty clear" that.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.


Literally all they had on the roster was James Starks and Alex Green. Neither had played a full season. They barely have a thousand yards between them. This is not "coming to a different conclusion now Philbin is gone." Like he was their head coach or GM. He was only an OC.
This was putting bodies where there where none. You want to call Eddy Lacy who ran behind Top NFL caliber linemen "top end", fine. But this was a clear position of need regardless of their perceived philosophy on the position.

When you build any football team there are areas where your scheme requires more out of some areas than others. No one is going to put a pro bowler at every position. But each area can still contribute positively. Miller avg. more ypc. than anybody on the 2012 packers and we still drafted another solid to above average back.

For the record I'm not predicting any success or failure from any Dolphin. But I do know that moving up a perceived depth chart at the running back position is a whole lot less dramatic than doing it at any other position, since carries will be shared and they have down specific skill sets. I think it's too early to be saying "clearly" this or "it's pretty clear" that.


Aaron Rodgers, I believe it was on Friday on NFL Sirius Radio, was interviewed and asked about the TWO new RB's added in the draft (Lacey and Franklin) and he responded that he felt it was a indicator of the Packers "reassessing the importance" of a balanced attack. So, yes, the Packers are examining the lack of productivity from the position. And yes, I would call drafting 2 of the top 7 RB's in a draft class as "taking top end guys". The Packers are reexamining the role of the running game and are, according to Aaron Rodgers, working towards a "more balance attack".
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.


Literally all they had on the roster was James Starks and Alex Green. Neither had played a full season. They barely have a thousand yards between them. This is not "coming to a different conclusion now Philbin is gone." Like he was their head coach or GM. He was only an OC.
This was putting bodies where there where none. You want to call Eddy Lacy who ran behind Top NFL caliber linemen "top end", fine. But this was a clear position of need regardless of their perceived philosophy on the position.

When you build any football team there are areas where your scheme requires more out of some areas than others. No one is going to put a pro bowler at every position. But each area can still contribute positively. Miller avg. more ypc. than anybody on the 2012 packers and we still drafted another solid to above average back.

For the record I'm not predicting any success or failure from any Dolphin. But I do know that moving up a perceived depth chart at the running back position is a whole lot less dramatic than doing it at any other position, since carries will be shared and they have down specific skill sets. I think it's too early to be saying "clearly" this or "it's pretty clear" that.


Aaron Rodgers, I believe it was on Friday on NFL Sirius Radio, was interviewed and asked about the TWO new RB's added in the draft (Lacey and Franklin) and he responded that he felt it was a indicator of the Packers "reassessing the importance" of a balanced attack. So, yes, the Packers are examining the lack of productivity from the position. And yes, I would call drafting 2 of the top 7 RB's in a draft class as "taking top end guys". The Packers are reexamining the role of the running game and are, according to Aaron Rodgers, working towards a "more balance attack".


That has nothing to do with Philbin. Under Philbin in 2009 and 2010 Ryan Grant turned in back to back 1200+ yard seasons. 2011 both Grant and James Starks averaged over 4 yards a carry. It was in 2012 While Philbin was here the Packers slipped in the running game. That's when Alex Green led the team with 464 yards on the season and Rogers was 2nd.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not too worried. Its still a passing league, having an elite running back is nice, but a luxury.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, it's not that Miami doesn't have an elite RB, or that they haven't spent draft picks on RB's to fill that need. It's that they have unproven RB's. Miller or Gillislee could prove to be elite. We just don't know at this point. I don't see how GB's position is any different even today? Who do they have that is proven? For all we know at this piont Lace and Franklin could end up not being as good as Gillislee and Miller or even Thomas. Remember Thomas was picked around the same time Lacy was in the draft. Miller would have been a second round pick if it were not for a couple of injury concerns, and by many accounts Gillislee has the diamond in the rough potential.

So I'm not sure their RB position is any better than ours to be honest.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
Again, it's not that Miami doesn't have an elite RB, or that they haven't spent draft picks on RB's to fill that need. It's that they have unproven RB's. Miller or Gillislee could prove to be elite. We just don't know at this point. I don't see how GB's position is any different even today? Who do they have that is proven? For all we know at this piont Lace and Franklin could end up not being as good as Gillislee and Miller or even Thomas. Remember Thomas was picked around the same time Lacy was in the draft. Miller would have been a second round pick if it were not for a couple of injury concerns, and by many accounts Gillislee has the diamond in the rough potential.

So I'm not sure their RB position is any better than ours to be honest.


The point wasn't that they got better, but that they are reassessing the role of the RB. Aaron Rodgers quote saying exactly that, and dedicating two high round picks is indicative of a renewed emphasis on run game.

Both of the teams in the Superbowl had running games ranked in the top 10. In fact, most of the playoff teams last year were highly ranked in the run game. I am not suggesting that the running game is MORE important than the pass, its not. However, it can't be viewed as an afterthought. Greenbay is addressing that issue now.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
Again, it's not that Miami doesn't have an elite RB, or that they haven't spent draft picks on RB's to fill that need. It's that they have unproven RB's. Miller or Gillislee could prove to be elite. We just don't know at this point. I don't see how GB's position is any different even today? Who do they have that is proven? For all we know at this piont Lace and Franklin could end up not being as good as Gillislee and Miller or even Thomas. Remember Thomas was picked around the same time Lacy was in the draft. Miller would have been a second round pick if it were not for a couple of injury concerns, and by many accounts Gillislee has the diamond in the rough potential.

So I'm not sure their RB position is any better than ours to be honest.


The point wasn't that they got better, but that they are reassessing the role of the RB. Aaron Rodgers quote saying exactly that, and dedicating two high round picks is indicative of a renewed emphasis on run game.

Both of the teams in the Superbowl had running games ranked in the top 10. In fact, most of the playoff teams last year were highly ranked in the run game. I am not suggesting that the running game is MORE important than the pass, its not. However, it can't be viewed as an afterthought. Greenbay is addressing that issue now.


We drafted a RB in both of Philbins Drafts. We are in year two of an overhaul. Your post implied that Green Bay is addressing the running game now that Philbin was gone, but the fact is that Green Bay's running game only became a problem when he left. Not necessarily because he left, but it was far from a problem when he was there.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
Again, it's not that Miami doesn't have an elite RB, or that they haven't spent draft picks on RB's to fill that need. It's that they have unproven RB's. Miller or Gillislee could prove to be elite. We just don't know at this point. I don't see how GB's position is any different even today? Who do they have that is proven? For all we know at this piont Lace and Franklin could end up not being as good as Gillislee and Miller or even Thomas. Remember Thomas was picked around the same time Lacy was in the draft. Miller would have been a second round pick if it were not for a couple of injury concerns, and by many accounts Gillislee has the diamond in the rough potential.

So I'm not sure their RB position is any better than ours to be honest.


The point wasn't that they got better, but that they are reassessing the role of the RB. Aaron Rodgers quote saying exactly that, and dedicating two high round picks is indicative of a renewed emphasis on run game.

Both of the teams in the Superbowl had running games ranked in the top 10. In fact, most of the playoff teams last year were highly ranked in the run game. I am not suggesting that the running game is MORE important than the pass, its not. However, it can't be viewed as an afterthought. Greenbay is addressing that issue now.


We drafted a RB in both of Philbins Drafts. We are in year two of an overhaul. Your post implied that Green Bay is addressing the running game now that Philbin was gone, but the fact is that Green Bay's running game only became a problem when he left. Not necessarily because he left, but it was far from a problem when he was there.



Greenbay IS re-addressing their running game and Philbin IS gone, however, I never said that was BECAUSE of Philbin's departure. You read too much into my posts. Again. I have no doubt WHATSOEVER that GB would have made the same draft decisions with or without Philbin working for the team.

As for the Dolphins taking two RB's in two years, actually we've taken 3 in 3, and moved up to draft 2 of them, but that's beside the point. Its pretty clear that the team is largely focused on putting a passing game together and far less concerned with the running game. You'd be hard pressed to find many people, if any, that would say with a straight face that we've upgraded the running back position, or the running game for that matter.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.



So you say that within an attempt to make a point about this regime's lack of focus on the running game. What exactly am I "reading too much into."

"Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone."

So I'm not to take that to mean that they didn't focus on the running game while he was there. ... "now that philbin is gone" doesn't imply that his presence was the reason for the prior environment or way of doing things ? Or that he's bringing a problematic philosophy to Miami ?

If I'm reading too much into it, why was Green Bay even brought up if it had nothing to do with a correlation between Philbin's influence on both teams.

They are reassessing their running game in 2013 because NOBODY cracked 500 yards running in 2012, and their franchise QB was the 2nd leading rusher. 2011 and prior had NOTHING to do with that reassessment.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Yes, Gillislee COULD fly up the charts. And yes, he COULD steal carries from Thomas and fend off other guys on the depth chart. And yes, there are depth charts based on snaps in the OTA snaps. The RB situation is clearly fluid, but the fact remains Miller looks like the clear cut starter at this early stage and I'd be shocked if anyone catches him by opening day. Thomas doesn't have a shot in my mind. He is much more likely to fall down the depth chart than rise based on what we've seen so far. If true, then it is, by necessity, likely that someone else rises up and Gillislee is a strong candidate for that role. However, I am definitely in the camp that believes this head coach and consequently the front office, doesn't view the RB as a major issue and is satisfied having less talent in that spot than most team would feel comfortable with. Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone. They added two top end RB's in this years draft class to address that deficiency. My hope is that Miller is successful enough that we don't have to go shopping again in the future.



So you say that within an attempt to make a point about this regime's lack of focus on the running game. What exactly am I "reading too much into."

"Oddly, Greenbay seems to have come to a different conclusion now that Philbin is gone."

So I'm not to take that to mean that they didn't focus on the running game while he was there. ... "now that philbin is gone" doesn't imply that his presence was the reason for the prior environment or way of doing things ? Or that he's bringing a problematic philosophy to Miami ?

If I'm reading too much into it, why was Green Bay even brought up if it had nothing to do with a correlation between Philbin's influence on both teams.

They are reassessing their running game in 2013 because NOBODY cracked 500 yards running in 2012, and their franchise QB was the 2nd leading rusher. 2011 and prior had NOTHING to do with that reassessment.


Why don't you tell me what I mean again? Who needs two people for a conversation? You should get together with my ex-girlfriend, you both don't need anyone else to have an argument.

I think rather than respond I'll just wait a month or so for you to write an article taking essentially what I've said and suggesting you meant that all along. May I suggest the pen name "straw-man" since the common theme through every discussion with you is your straw man arguments. The desperate search to be "right" about something must be exhausting. Carry on.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look I'm not going to overcomplicate this and make it personal. I disagree with your take on this issue. So what.

I'm not going to write an article saying that The Green Bay Packers re-assessed the running game now that philbin's gone to the Dolphins. That's simply not true.

I wrote the Jonathan Martin article because he didn't play well enough to be handed the job. I wrote one article about it. You on the other hand talked about Jonathan Martin like you are Jake Long's mom.
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