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Let's talk about the Packers blocking scheme

 
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Let's talk about the Packers blocking scheme Reply with quote

Has anyone studied the Packers OL enough to know how they run the ZBS compared to the other teams in the league?

From what I've read and remember about the ZBS, it's pretty simple. Instead of being assigned a man before the play, you are assigned a zone. To figure out who is in your zone (I was taught this in HS), you use the G.O.D. rule

G-Gap, is someone in the playside gap of you? He's in your zone.
O-On, is someone on you? He's in your zone
D-Down, if you are uncovered with no one around you help, then go down to second level

The most important thing in the ZBS is that you always work playside.

I'm going to use Harris's 18 yard TD run as an example


Harris is going to run to his right, but I'm going to start with the backside of the play.

You can barely tell, but Finley has Aldon Smith lined up right on him. That makes Aldon his man. Finley's on him solo because it's the backside.

Justin Smith is half on the LG (Sitton) and half in the LT's (Newhouse), so he is in both of their "zones". The way this works is they both take him. If he goes right, the LG takes him and the LT goes to backer. If he goes left, the LT takes him and the LG goes to backer. The zone was made to combat stunting DL that caused problems for man on man blocking. The LB in their zone is #53, so one of them should get a hat on him after the double team. G/T double teams are called "deuces".

The center is uncovered, so he's going to help the playside (help by double teaming the guy on the RG) and one of the linemen will go to #52, who is the LB in their zone. C/G double teams are called "aces".

Lastly, is the RT who is going to reach out and block the LB in the wide technique.

6 on 6 blocking that's based on what the two down DL do. Only the two edge LB's have a specific man assigned to them, blocking-wise.



You can see Lang getting to #53 and EDS working off the double team to try to get to #52. Harris really has two options at this point and it depends on what #53 does (which gap he tries to shoot), but the defense is already flowing to their left pretty quickly (just the nature of going against the ZBS), which creates a cutback lane for Harris. [special thanks to Jermichael Finley]



I tried to align the hash marks from the first two examples to show how both sides of the ball have flowed to the right at this point.



Lang got to #53, who was flowing right, Harris cutback left where there was no one. 18 yard TD even though Finley whiffed on a block and EDS couldn't really get to #52. Justin Smith took himself out of the play by going deeper than the RB.


Is it just as simple as G.O.D., ace/deuce/trey double teams, reading the DL, then moving to backers?



Side note: People made a huge deal about McCarthy saying the running game needs to be more aggressive, which lead people to thinking that we were going to run more man than zone blocking in 2013. 1) everyone runs some type of ZBS in the NFL, now 2) I feel like you can be more aggressive using the ZBS than the man blocking scheme.
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Beast


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's talk about the Packers blocking scheme Reply with quote

First off their is more than one type of zone blocking. I remember getting into a debate with someone were we were disagreeing on something and as it turned out we were both correct with what we were saying for the type of zone we were thinking of but both wrong in the assumption we were talking about the same thing. Just a heads up that there are a couple different types of zone blocking.

I was talking about the kind you just showed, were the other person was talking more about the zone blocking where the whole OL flow east/west as a unit like you often see from the Texans run blocking... and then one of the interior OL normally go for a cut block clogging up the flow which lets the RB have a two or three way go. 1) Outside the OT/TE to the side he's going. 2)to the hole opened up by the clog and normally 3) depends on how the defenders react sometimes there is two lanes at the hole and/or the back side of the play is then open up if the clog failed to work.

But I'm more used to the one you're talking about.

justo wrote:
Justin Smith is half on the LG (Sitton) and half in the LT's (Newhouse)


I think LG is Lang.

justo wrote:
The way this works is they both take him. If he goes right, the LG takes him and the LT goes to backer. If he goes left, the LT takes him and the LG goes to backer.


I was taught slightly differently. I was taught that you both hit the DL to pop his momentum backwards (or at least still), the guy toward the play side (call in the huddle) go gets the LB and the guy away from play side hit and moves into play side position as the other guy is hit and moves to the LB.

So if the call was run up the middle then both would hit the DL, and the OT would be moving toward the playside as the OG would be releasing and moving up field to get the LB. (because if the LB goes around the OT then he's like Smith (the one on Finely) he's out of the play.

If the call is run outside the OT then both would hit the DL, and the OG would be moving towards the play side as the OT would be releasing and moving up field to get the LB. (if LB has enough speed he could blitz up the middle and get the LB, but it would be the RB job to it the hole quick enough that doesn't happen, and not go east/west because more likely the LB gets you that way, kind of hard for a LB to hit that hole and then do a U turn around linemen to catch up to the RB so that's why the RB has to try to get north/south as fast as possible if a LB hits that gap).


I can see advantage / disadvantage doing it both ways.
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deathstar


Joined: 06 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast - I don't understand how the play that Justo showed is NOT an example of all the linemen moving west to east at once with someone cutting (Finley, poorly) the backside defender. What am I missing?
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justo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathstar wrote:
Beast - I don't understand how the play that Justo showed is NOT an example of all the linemen moving west to east at once with someone cutting (Finley, poorly) the backside defender. What am I missing?
I'm not sure Finley was cutting. I'll try to post a video of the coaches film runs from the San Fran playoff game. The lack of cutting is surprising. When Palmy comes back I'll send him a PM asking about that. I watched an 8 hour lecture Alex Gibbs had with the Florida Gators in the mid 2000's and he was still teaching guys to cut, so idk. Maybe it's just something the Packers don't do.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are hundreads of zone concepts, just like there are hundreds of zone coverages, which is why if there's a blown block or coverage you can't simply say "player x" should have had him because frankly you don't know the call. Ulitmately most-to-all zone schemes will rely on lateral movement of the DL playside, double teams that scrape to the 2nd level and cuttting on the backside, but to determine who should block who pre-snap you need to know the play. IF you think regular zone is tricky, try read-zone option like is run at the college level and now the pro's. Some of the stuff Harbough was doing with that OL in San Fran was totally nifty, pulling guards and bringing backside fullbacks across the formation...ect.
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justo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some more examples:












Looks like backside HB gets the backside ILB, playside HB gets the playside ILB

The only two plays that didn't follow those rules in my first post were the dives and the one with the pulling LG
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Beast


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathstar wrote:
Beast - I don't understand how the play that Justo showed is NOT an example of all the linemen moving west to east at once with someone cutting (Finley, poorly) the backside defender. What am I missing?


They didn't all move as one big unit to the left or right (which is east west)

Some of them (Lang and another) went to the second level trying to take out a LB.

The Texans do one that's REALLY east-west where they move more to the side than up the field. And you can already see the holes opening up.

Right of the Center, right of the RT and if the DE (on the right in the picture cuts it in, then) outside the TE would be open.

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justo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
deathstar wrote:
Beast - I don't understand how the play that Justo showed is NOT an example of all the linemen moving west to east at once with someone cutting (Finley, poorly) the backside defender. What am I missing?


They didn't all move as one big unit to the left or right (which is east west)

Some of them (Lang and another) went to the second level trying to take out a LB.

The Texans do one that's REALLY east-west where they move more to the side than up the field. And you can already see the holes opening up.

Right of the Center, right of the RT and if the DE (on the right in the picture cuts it in, then) outside the TE would be open.

Yeah, sometimes the backside OT/TE end up sealing off the backside. The Texans just full on bucket step no matter what, huh?
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squire12


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running game success takes several fundamental things: OL talent and aggressive mentality, coaching commitment to it in philosophy, practice and game calls (even if there is minimal success early). Many ways to skin that cat. Quality RB to set up blocks and see holes before they materialize.
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dijatool


Joined: 17 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
deathstar wrote:
Beast - I don't understand how the play that Justo showed is NOT an example of all the linemen moving west to east at once with someone cutting (Finley, poorly) the backside defender. What am I missing?

They didn't all move as one big unit to the left or right (which is east west)

Some of them (Lang and another) went to the second level trying to take out a LB.

The Texans do one that's REALLY east-west where they move more to the side than up the field. And you can already see the holes opening up.

Right of the Center, right of the RT and if the DE (on the right in the picture cuts it in, then) outside the TE would be open.


Isn't this mostly a result of their stretch running game? Everybody flows and the back is supposed to find the gap or so I thought.
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