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Crabtree Tears Achilles
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
What do you guys think it will do to his contract renewal (if there's one)?


Possible injury clause?



You mean, an opt out clause, like Peyton had last year? Or de-escalators tied to performance and/or games played, like we did with Ahmad Brooks last year?

I was thinking more in terms of numbers. Would he still ask for 10+ per year, or is this driving down his asking price a little? I'm not sure Crabtree has the personality to go for the de-escalator clauses, like Brooks did. Brooks had a serious chip on his shoulder and was determined to prove his worth over and over again. I'm not sure Crabtree feels he has anything to prove. He'd rather have a firm offer with minimal fluff, and maximal guarantees. It's going to be a hard negotiation.


It's going to lower our offer a bit, no doubt there, because he does have a little history of injuries. But I'm more worried about us wanting to put an injury de-escalator there, because I don't think there's much of a chance that Crabs agrees to that. I think it's thing that holds up negotiations for a bit.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
What do you guys think it will do to his contract renewal (if there's one)?


Possible injury clause?



You mean, an opt out clause, like Peyton had last year? Or de-escalators tied to performance and/or games played, like we did with Ahmad Brooks last year?

I was thinking more in terms of numbers. Would he still ask for 10+ per year, or is this driving down his asking price a little? I'm not sure Crabtree has the personality to go for the de-escalator clauses, like Brooks did. Brooks had a serious chip on his shoulder and was determined to prove his worth over and over again. I'm not sure Crabtree feels he has anything to prove. He'd rather have a firm offer with minimal fluff, and maximal guarantees. It's going to be a hard negotiation.


It's going to lower our offer a bit, no doubt there, because he does have a little history of injuries. But I'm more worried about us wanting to put an injury de-escalator there, because I don't think there's much of a chance that Crabs agrees to that. I think it's thing that holds up negotiations for a bit.


I personally don't think it'll do much to lower Crabtree's asking price; we know what he thinks of himself as a receiver and always has, and I don't think he, or his agents, are going to let what they could describe as a freak accident lower their asking price even though we will come back and say that he's battle several injuries in the past. I do think that it will lower the price we are willing to offer though. Personally, I just don't see him coming back once he's a free agent, but I've always thought that. It just seems to me like Baalke will put emphasis on signing other players; maybe just out of positional priority. Whatever offer we make I feel will definitely have some de-escalators in there somewhere, we seem to be very fond of having those in contracts lately.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given what he wanted as a rookie I'm still expecting his salary demands are going to be much higher than we will think appropriate. How/if we resolve that will be interesting to watch. Parag has been a genius with the money.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
What do you guys think it will do to his contract renewal (if there's one)?


Possible injury clause?



You mean, an opt out clause, like Peyton had last year? Or de-escalators tied to performance and/or games played, like we did with Ahmad Brooks last year?

I was thinking more in terms of numbers. Would he still ask for 10+ per year, or is this driving down his asking price a little? I'm not sure Crabtree has the personality to go for the de-escalator clauses, like Brooks did. Brooks had a serious chip on his shoulder and was determined to prove his worth over and over again. I'm not sure Crabtree feels he has anything to prove. He'd rather have a firm offer with minimal fluff, and maximal guarantees. It's going to be a hard negotiation.


It's going to lower our offer a bit, no doubt there, because he does have a little history of injuries. But I'm more worried about us wanting to put an injury de-escalator there, because I don't think there's much of a chance that Crabs agrees to that. I think it's thing that holds up negotiations for a bit.


I personally don't think it'll do much to lower Crabtree's asking price; we know what he thinks of himself as a receiver and always has, and I don't think he, or his agents, are going to let what they could describe as a freak accident lower their asking price even though we will come back and say that he's battle several injuries in the past. I do think that it will lower the price we are willing to offer though. Personally, I just don't see him coming back once he's a free agent, but I've always thought that. It just seems to me like Baalke will put emphasis on signing other players; maybe just out of positional priority. Whatever offer we make I feel will definitely have some de-escalators in there somewhere, we seem to be very fond of having those in contracts lately.



I was also under the impression than our offer will not meet his demand and he will go after the money. Maybe we'll franchise tag him while we weigh our options. But I have a hard time putting the probability of him signing a long term contract with us over 50%.
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
I personally don't think it'll do much to lower Crabtree's asking price; we know what he thinks of himself as a receiver and always has, and I don't think he, or his agents, are going to let what they could describe as a freak accident lower their asking price even though we will come back and say that he's battle several injuries in the past. I do think that it will lower the price we are willing to offer though. Personally, I just don't see him coming back once he's a free agent, but I've always thought that. It just seems to me like Baalke will put emphasis on signing other players; maybe just out of positional priority. Whatever offer we make I feel will definitely have some de-escalators in there somewhere, we seem to be very fond of having those in contracts lately.


It may not lower Crabtree's asking price, but it'll definitely lower his value to other teams. Remember the guy has only had one really good season and he's been dealing with ticky-tack injuries his whole career. I mean, look at Dashon Goldson. He wanted big money when he first hit FA, but one good season under his belt wasn't enough. Most teams didn't hold the same value that Dashon put on himself, so he just sat in free agency until he finally took a one year "prove it" type of deal. I could see Crabs going down a similar route where he comes back on a cheap short term deal to prove to other teams (and maybe even the 9ers) that he's worth that big money contract. Because, at this point, he hasn't done quite enough to earn it yet.
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
Forge wrote:
I personally don't think it'll do much to lower Crabtree's asking price; we know what he thinks of himself as a receiver and always has, and I don't think he, or his agents, are going to let what they could describe as a freak accident lower their asking price even though we will come back and say that he's battle several injuries in the past. I do think that it will lower the price we are willing to offer though. Personally, I just don't see him coming back once he's a free agent, but I've always thought that. It just seems to me like Baalke will put emphasis on signing other players; maybe just out of positional priority. Whatever offer we make I feel will definitely have some de-escalators in there somewhere, we seem to be very fond of having those in contracts lately.


It may not lower Crabtree's asking price, but it'll definitely lower his value to other teams. Remember the guy has only had one really good season and he's been dealing with ticky-tack injuries his whole career. I mean, look at Dashon Goldson. He wanted big money when he first hit FA, but one good season under his belt wasn't enough. Most teams didn't hold the same value that Dashon put on himself, so he just sat in free agency until he finally took a one year "prove it" type of deal. I could see Crabs going down a similar route where he comes back on a cheap short term deal to prove to other teams (and maybe even the 9ers) that he's worth that big money contract. Because, at this point, he hasn't done quite enough to earn it yet.


That would be true if crabtree was a 4th round pick like goldson was. No one expected him to be an all pro s so they were hesitant to pay him as such so quickly. Everyone expected big things out of crabs because of his production in college and the fact he was a top 10 pick. So when he started to blossom everyone took notice right away. I'm sure that he will receive big offers from a few fringe teams

People also doubted goldson because the s position relies so heavily on the players around them, and we have elite players at every defensive position that allowed goldson to do what he does best. At wr its glaringly obvious when you beat the guy in front of you, and its hard to discount the type of production he had.


a lot of GMs revert back to the way they graded players coming out. I seriously doubt anyone gave him less than a first round grade so I'm sure half the teams in the league would at least give his agent a call

I'm hoping he loves kaep and wants to set records. He is marketable enough to where he realistically shouldnt feel a need to sign the biggest contract that was offered to him. But considering he has had deion sanders in his ear for years now, and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up a cowboy


EDIT: this is all assuming he proves he is healthy before next season starts.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Forge wrote:
I personally don't think it'll do much to lower Crabtree's asking price; we know what he thinks of himself as a receiver and always has, and I don't think he, or his agents, are going to let what they could describe as a freak accident lower their asking price even though we will come back and say that he's battle several injuries in the past. I do think that it will lower the price we are willing to offer though. Personally, I just don't see him coming back once he's a free agent, but I've always thought that. It just seems to me like Baalke will put emphasis on signing other players; maybe just out of positional priority. Whatever offer we make I feel will definitely have some de-escalators in there somewhere, we seem to be very fond of having those in contracts lately.


It may not lower Crabtree's asking price, but it'll definitely lower his value to other teams. Remember the guy has only had one really good season and he's been dealing with ticky-tack injuries his whole career. I mean, look at Dashon Goldson. He wanted big money when he first hit FA, but one good season under his belt wasn't enough. Most teams didn't hold the same value that Dashon put on himself, so he just sat in free agency until he finally took a one year "prove it" type of deal. I could see Crabs going down a similar route where he comes back on a cheap short term deal to prove to other teams (and maybe even the 9ers) that he's worth that big money contract. Because, at this point, he hasn't done quite enough to earn it yet.


That would be true if crabtree was a 4th round pick like goldson was. No one expected him to be an all pro s so they were hesitant to pay him as such so quickly. Everyone expected big things out of crabs because of his production in college and the fact he was a top 10 pick. So when he started to blossom everyone took notice right away. I'm sure that he will receive big offers from a few fringe teams

People also doubted goldson because the s position relies so heavily on the players around them, and we have elite players at every defensive position that allowed goldson to do what he does best. At wr its glaringly obvious when you beat the guy in front of you, and its hard to discount the type of production he had.


a lot of GMs revert back to the way they graded players coming out. I seriously doubt anyone gave him less than a first round grade so I'm sure half the teams in the league would at least give his agent a call

I'm hoping he loves kaep and wants to set records. He is marketable enough to where he realistically shouldnt feel a need to sign the biggest contract that was offered to him. But considering he has had deion sanders in his ear for years now, and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up a cowboy


EDIT: this is all assuming he proves he is healthy before next season starts.


I'm inclined to go with Ninerfan here; it only takes one bad team with salary cap space to overpay the guy who will likely be the premier wide receiver free agent available. Teams like to make splashes like that; to be able to tell their fan base that they went out and got a guy that was the best available at the position they need. So take a team like Cleveland, for instance, that could still use some WR help, potentially have the cap room, and have shown this year that they are willing to pay, and boom, Crabtree is gone. For whatever reason, teams are willing to bid against themselves, which makes no sense (look at Miami with Wallace this year; i don't think any other team was seriously in contention for Wallace's services, even if Minnesota was kicking the tires on him, and yet Miami still overpaid). Vincent Jackson would to me be a reasonable comp for Crabtree in terms of nagging injuries/production/etc, and I can't see Baalke parting with that much money for a wide receiver, but I could easily see a rebuilding team with a bunch of cap room do it.
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