Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

This Year's Rod Streater
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5213
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Brice Butler has some serious skills, I would love to see him develop his game.


Does he I though he went to San Diego State because he was no match for the other USC WR's.

I haven't heard much about him, I was thinking hes this years Nathan Stupar drafted but eventually cut.


from what i remember him at SC his freshmen year, is he had nice measurables and good hands and good body control, can go up and get balls..i think he can make this team over a guy like Criner...


going off what they did in college? what? Criner tripled Butlers collegiate production

So Criner doesn't tear it up his first year in the league and most of you want to give up on him? it takes most WR's 2-3 years to hit their stride, Criner, IMO, will surprise some people.


Slow down there buddy. I am all for Criner, I just think Brice Butler has a complete skill set for the position, dependent upon his ability to run routes. If he shows good precision in his route running I think he could be an impact guy.

Nothing against Criner, I like his size and willingness over the middle.

The question was "who is this year's Rod Streater?" I see Brice Butler being one of those potential later round guys that could make an impact. A similar question was posed a few years back and I went with Slade Norris, so take it all for it what it is worth.

For the record Criner in the last 4 games of the season was targeted 25 times collecting receptions on just 12 of those targets. So in the name of Raiderdom may who ever plays wide receiver perform better then that.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1108
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
I love this thread because of it's irony. We have spent this entire 2013 off-season talking up Streater like he is the second coming, just like we did Moore in 2012 and Murphy in 2009. Yet they all disappeared as quickly as the brightest shooting star appeared. None the less every off season we look to fall in love again forever only to be disappointed. Is Rod Streater the next Rod Smith? The odds say highly unlikely but here's to hoping.

I think you're reading a little too much into 'the next Rod Streater' Bagga! I didn't mean which UDFA is going to be an All Pro Laughing but it seems most years we have a suprise who shows potential and produces way above the expectations. Obviously Trevor Scott and Louis Murhpy haven't taken it any further and developed but that's not to say they couldn't a couple years ago. I think it's a good way to see how guys break down players and their skills and what people are looking for, what traits they think can be successful and so on......


I'm not referring to people who project these "out of nowhere" guys to become All-Pro. No one does that. I am referring to people who picks out this type of player EVERY year as a building block only to find themselves disappointed the following year and anoints the next "out of nowhere" guy like they are incapable of learning. (Shilens, Murphy, Moore, Ford are all examples)

Maybe I am reading into the question too much? I thought you were asking which later round draftee will exceed our expectations? However, if you asking "Which unlikely prospect will we over-project again?" in that case TE Mychal Rivera whose measureables and skill set are nearly identical to Brandon Meyers, adept receiver weak blocker who similarly will capitalize on playing in an offense with a weak WR corps that desperately needs an outlet.


You raise a good point, it's relative to the expectations!!!

Agree with Rivera who has a role to play though he seems to have some glaring weaknesses, will these be glossed over like Myers' only time will tell???

Murray IMO is a player who can become a starter given time in the NFL, maybe as Streater did as a result of an injury or lack of options. If any 6th round pick can start that's exceeded expectations in my book. If the players selected in the first 3 rounds don't start or have a major impact role (like 3rd down pass rusher, red zone reciever) in 3 years then in my book they've dissapointed.
_________________
“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6232
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
I love this thread because of it's irony. We have spent this entire 2013 off-season talking up Streater like he is the second coming, just like we did Moore in 2012 and Murphy in 2009. Yet they all disappeared as quickly as the brightest shooting star appeared. None the less every off season we look to fall in love again forever only to be disappointed. Is Rod Streater the next Rod Smith? The odds say highly unlikely but here's to hoping.

I think you're reading a little too much into 'the next Rod Streater' Bagga! I didn't mean which UDFA is going to be an All Pro Laughing but it seems most years we have a suprise who shows potential and produces way above the expectations. Obviously Trevor Scott and Louis Murhpy haven't taken it any further and developed but that's not to say they couldn't a couple years ago. I think it's a good way to see how guys break down players and their skills and what people are looking for, what traits they think can be successful and so on......


I'm not referring to people who project these "out of nowhere" guys to become All-Pro. No one does that. I am referring to people who picks out this type of player EVERY year as a building block only to find themselves disappointed the following year and anoints the next "out of nowhere" guy like they are incapable of learning. (Shilens, Murphy, Moore, Ford are all examples)

Maybe I am reading into the question too much? I thought you were asking which later round draftee will exceed our expectations? However, if you asking "Which unlikely prospect will we over-project again?" in that case TE Mychal Rivera whose measureables and skill set are nearly identical to Brandon Meyers, adept receiver weak blocker who similarly will capitalize on playing in an offense with a weak WR corps that desperately needs an outlet.


You raise a good point, it's relative to the expectations!!!

Agree with Rivera who has a role to play though he seems to have some glaring weaknesses, will these be glossed over like Myers' only time will tell???

Murray IMO is a player who can become a starter given time in the NFL, maybe as Streater did as a result of an injury or lack of options. If any 6th round pick can start that's exceeded expectations in my book. If the players selected in the first 3 rounds don't start or have a major impact role (like 3rd down pass rusher, red zone reciever) in 3 years then in my book they've dissapointed.


The only problem that I have with your premise is that if Rivera mimics Meyer's numbers heading into the 2014 draft once again people will be saying that Rivera is the team's BEST receiver and irreplaceable which obviously at that point wouldn't be true because most of us cannot distinguish between a quality product and a product of a quality system.

I don't have a problem evaluating this type of prospect because going through UDFAs for me is like searching for beats in vinyl records for a DJ. However, the overwhelming maximum upside of most of these type of guys is trash that doesn't stink. When we start suggesting building around this type of player is when I check out.
_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 584
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
I love this thread because of it's irony. We have spent this entire 2013 off-season talking up Streater like he is the second coming, just like we did Moore in 2012 and Murphy in 2009. Yet they all disappeared as quickly as the brightest shooting star appeared. None the less every off season we look to fall in love again forever only to be disappointed. Is Rod Streater the next Rod Smith? The odds say highly unlikely but here's to hoping.

I think you're reading a little too much into 'the next Rod Streater' Bagga! I didn't mean which UDFA is going to be an All Pro Laughing but it seems most years we have a suprise who shows potential and produces way above the expectations. Obviously Trevor Scott and Louis Murhpy haven't taken it any further and developed but that's not to say they couldn't a couple years ago. I think it's a good way to see how guys break down players and their skills and what people are looking for, what traits they think can be successful and so on......


I'm not referring to people who project these "out of nowhere" guys to become All-Pro. No one does that. I am referring to people who picks out this type of player EVERY year as a building block only to find themselves disappointed the following year and anoints the next "out of nowhere" guy like they are incapable of learning. (Shilens, Murphy, Moore, Ford are all examples)

Maybe I am reading into the question too much? I thought you were asking which later round draftee will exceed our expectations? However, if you asking "Which unlikely prospect will we over-project again?" in that case TE Mychal Rivera whose measureables and skill set are nearly identical to Brandon Meyers, adept receiver weak blocker who similarly will capitalize on playing in an offense with a weak WR corps that desperately needs an outlet.


You raise a good point, it's relative to the expectations!!!

Agree with Rivera who has a role to play though he seems to have some glaring weaknesses, will these be glossed over like Myers' only time will tell???

Murray IMO is a player who can become a starter given time in the NFL, maybe as Streater did as a result of an injury or lack of options. If any 6th round pick can start that's exceeded expectations in my book. If the players selected in the first 3 rounds don't start or have a major impact role (like 3rd down pass rusher, red zone reciever) in 3 years then in my book they've dissapointed.


The only problem that I have with your premise is that if Rivera mimics Meyer's numbers heading into the 2014 draft once again people will be saying that Rivera is the team's BEST receiver and irreplaceable which obviously at that point wouldn't be true because most of us cannot distinguish between a quality product and a product of a quality system.

I don't have a problem evaluating this type of prospect because going through UDFAs for me is like searching for beats in vinyl records for a DJ. However, the overwhelming maximum upside of most of these type of guys is trash that doesn't stink. When we start suggesting building around this type of player is when I check out.


This really reminds me of Zach Miller..or "miller time" as very often referred to on this forum. I reminder making a list of about 15 TE's I would choose over zach miller, and this forum called me crazy lol. I guess its a very common thing for fans to over rate their own players since that probably the only team they watch.
-I think Houston is over rated here.
-Criner hasnt done anything to garner any attention like he gets here
-It took raider fans 3 years to realize that mcclain is horrible, but many still thought he would tear it up in baltimore......he was very average at alabama Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10109
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything Houston is underrated, first of all. And since when does Criner get too much love? I see the opposite actually. Fans still have every right to be excited about the guy even though the fifth round rookie WR didn't tear it up his first year. I feel a little stronger about Criner than most though I suppose.

Also, the McClain comment you made is false, I saw no one make any claims of him tearing it up (well, serious ones anyway). The only statements I saw we're those pertaining to him fitting the 3-4 better and that is his only chance at success, which was true
_________________
O A K L A N D R A I D E R S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1108
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:

The only problem that I have with your premise is that if Rivera mimics Meyer's numbers heading into the 2014 draft once again people will be saying that Rivera is the team's BEST receiver and irreplaceable which obviously at that point wouldn't be true because most of us cannot distinguish between a quality product and a product of a quality system.

I don't have a problem evaluating this type of prospect because going through UDFAs for me is like searching for beats in vinyl records for a DJ. However, the overwhelming maximum upside of most of these type of guys is trash that doesn't stink. When we start suggesting building around this type of player is when I check out.


Don't quite understand the point you're making here Bagga, every poster is entitled to their own opinion and obviously if said situation happens it doesn't mean that that is the predominant (or correct) position of all posters. I am sure if Rivera were to post (for example) the same numbers as Myers did last season some posters would claim he is the second coming of Todd Christensen, I am equally certain that other posters (hopefully myself included) would temper their praise and take the performance in context and be able to evaluate based on scheme, lack of other options, injuries and so on..........

If some posters want to hype a particular prospect that is their free choice, while I agree it does get a bit crazy with the hype at times (take Pryor for example) I don't have to agree with the hype generated and I don't have to try and force everyone to agree with me either. If someone is suggesting 'building around Juron Criner' for example it would at present be a stretch but I'd at least want to hear why someone would think that, then I can make up my own mind based on their opinion and the evidence apparent to me.
_________________
“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
THE MAD STORK


Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 584
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
If anything Houston is underrated, first of all. And since when does Criner get too much love? I see the opposite actually. Fans still have every right to be excited about the guy even though the fifth round rookie WR didn't tear it up his first year. I feel a little stronger about Criner than most though I suppose.

Also, the McClain comment you made is false, I saw no one make any claims of him tearing it up (well, serious ones anyway). The only statements I saw we're those pertaining to him fitting the 3-4 better and that is his only chance at success, which was true


I dont see how Houston is underrated on here? everyone loves him, although I do think he is a solid piece, hes nothing more than slightly above average in my opinion although I dont think DE is the right position for him.
I guess its hard to tell who is good and who is bad when we have had a bad team for so long.

And your right in the sense that we can be excited about any player on our roster in hope that they do good, I just personally feel that criner hasnt shown anything to be all that excited about. I personally refuse to get too excited about Wrs when we have had such a bad history/luck of drafting them recently, many of whom produced very well in year one but never followed up. For example:

1. Johnny Lee Higgins
2. Louis Murphy
3. Even Jacoby Ford has been dissapointing since year 1
4. I was so pumped about D Moore, but he had a real down year compared to his first.
5. I thought Chaz was the real deal.
6. DHB, but its not his fault completely..i blame that on davis.
___________________________________

other WR's who everyone had high expectations for, FOR no reason

I remember everyone loved Armon Sheilds (he was horrid),
criner hasnt dont much, ausberry has received a lot of love. before that morant, francis, watkins (every off season)..

As far as mcclain, I saw many people claiming Mcclain was a steal for Baltimore. Hes garbage. never was any good. Most average college football player I ever seen go in the top 10.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1108
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE MAD STORK wrote:

And your right in the sense that we can be excited about any player on our roster in hope that they do good, I just personally feel that criner hasnt shown anything to be all that excited about. I personally refuse to get too excited about Wrs when we have had such a bad history/luck of drafting them recently, many of whom produced very well in year one but never followed up. For example:

1. Johnny Lee Higgins
2. Louis Murphy
3. Even Jacoby Ford has been dissapointing since year 1
4. I was so pumped about D Moore, but he had a real down year compared to his first.
5. I thought Chaz was the real deal.
6. DHB, but its not his fault completely..i blame that on davis.


To be fair I think most of our guys had a down year in that putrid offensive (pun intended) scheme not just Moore Smile

Moore certainly has some qualities that should see him redeem himself this year. Jacoby Ford has a big year ahead to prove he was no flash in the pan but I think both can be big contributors over the next few seasons.

Chaz and Murphy were derailed with injury so I don't think it's a lack of application or skill that cost them so you could say they (and we) were unlucky.

DHB was what he was, a straight line speed guy who didn't have natural hands, only ever going to go so far in this league. Credit to Hue Jackson for accentuating his strengths and hiding some of his weaknesses.

I will maintain my stance of 'cautiously optimistic' with refernce to Streater, Moore and Ford and 'expect nothing but hope for the best' with regards Criner and Butler.
_________________
“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14415
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2013/05/28/notes-quotes-and-observations-from-todays-ota/

Quote:
Allen made it clear that he isn’t one to heap too much praise on rookies, especially after only four practices. Yet, he doesn’t hesitate finding good things to say about running back Latavius Murray.
“Probably the thing that’s been most impressive is that he’s picked up everything offensively from a schematic standpoint, assignment wise,” Allen said. “He’s done a great job. He’s done a nice job in pass protection. That’s one of the things you see with young backs that they struggle with at times.”

_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1108
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2013/05/28/notes-quotes-and-observations-from-todays-ota/

Quote:
Allen made it clear that he isn’t one to heap too much praise on rookies, especially after only four practices. Yet, he doesn’t hesitate finding good things to say about running back Latavius Murray.
“Probably the thing that’s been most impressive is that he’s picked up everything offensively from a schematic standpoint, assignment wise,” Allen said. “He’s done a great job. He’s done a nice job in pass protection. That’s one of the things you see with young backs that they struggle with at times.”


Thanks Oakdb, good to hear!!!!
_________________
“It may take us a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back.”
Mr. Al Davis RIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6232
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: This Year's Rod Streater Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

The only problem that I have with your premise is that if Rivera mimics Meyer's numbers heading into the 2014 draft once again people will be saying that Rivera is the team's BEST receiver and irreplaceable which obviously at that point wouldn't be true because most of us cannot distinguish between a quality product and a product of a quality system.

I don't have a problem evaluating this type of prospect because going through UDFAs for me is like searching for beats in vinyl records for a DJ. However, the overwhelming maximum upside of most of these type of guys is trash that doesn't stink. When we start suggesting building around this type of player is when I check out.


Don't quite understand the point you're making here Bagga, every poster is entitled to their own opinion and obviously if said situation happens it doesn't mean that that is the predominant (or correct) position of all posters. I am sure if Rivera were to post (for example) the same numbers as Myers did last season some posters would claim he is the second coming of Todd Christensen, I am equally certain that other posters (hopefully myself included) would temper their praise and take the performance in context and be able to evaluate based on scheme, lack of other options, injuries and so on..........

If some posters want to hype a particular prospect that is their free choice, while I agree it does get a bit crazy with the hype at times (take Pryor for example) I don't have to agree with the hype generated and I don't have to try and force everyone to agree with me either. If someone is suggesting 'building around Juron Criner' for example it would at present be a stretch but I'd at least want to hear why someone would think that, then I can make up my own mind based on their opinion and the evidence apparent to me.


Darbsk, you are a rare breed indeed that finds value in an opinion that ignores empirical evidence, statistical fact or historical trends. No one can "force" anyone to agree with their position but if you miss-represent facts you can expect to be challenged.
_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group