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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
I'll take Flowers first of all the KC corners mentioned by 86.

Wow! That's bold. I love Flowers, but I can't take him over any of those other guys.


see yourself out. All those other guys got to play while actually touching the receiver, Flowers doesn't get to do that, and he's still more shutdown than they are.

But I donít wanna go. Wah!

By your reasoning, most any B-grade corner playing today is better than a yesteryear counterpart.

Albert Lewis was a better corner during his era than Brandon Flowers is in his. So was Dale Carter and probably Emmitt Thomas and Kevin Ross at the very least. James Hasty might be too.

1. Albert Lewis
2. Emmitt Thomas
3. Dale Carter
4. Kevin Ross
5. James Hasty
6. Brandon Flowers

The all time best Chiefs secondary had to be Lewis, Ross, Deron Cherry and Lloyd Burress. Burress was okay, but his spot could have been manned by a chimp and it would still be the best unit.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
I'll take Flowers first of all the KC corners mentioned by 86.

Wow! That's bold. I love Flowers, but I can't take him over any of those other guys.


see yourself out. All those other guys got to play while actually touching the receiver, Flowers doesn't get to do that, and he's still more shutdown than they are.

But I donít wanna go. Wah!

By your reasoning, most any B-grade corner playing today is better than a yesteryear counterpart.

Albert Lewis was a better corner during his era than Brandon Flowers is in his. So was Dale Carter and probably Emmitt Thomas and Kevin Ross at the very least. James Hasty might be too.

1. Albert Lewis
2. Emmitt Thomas
3. Dale Carter
4. Kevin Ross
5. James Hasty
6. Brandon Flowers

The all time best Chiefs secondary had to be Lewis, Ross, Deron Cherry and Lloyd Burress. Burress was okay, but his spot could have been manned by a chimp and it would still be the best unit.


Are you calling Brandon Flowers a "B-Grade player" by today's standards? That is ridiculous. He's a top 5 player, he's consistently great, he plays one of the 2 most difficult positions to play, and he often times makes it look easy. I'm a little young, so I didn't get to see Albert Lewis with KC, just a little with Oakland, nor have I seen much of Ross or Thomas (except highlights), but I'm confident that Flowers would be there equal or more likely their better if he played alongside of them. Flowers is in my view the 3rd best CB in the league. He plays at an elite level and does it consistently. The only real knock you can put on him is that he only covers one part of the field.
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HiccupGuy


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 1961
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention Rear. He has been a top 3-5 guy for what 3-4 years now? That is a long time for a player to keep up their play and I don't see any signs of him slowing down right now.
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Mongo wrote:
By your reasoning, most any B-grade corner playing today is better than a yesteryear counterpart.


Are you calling Brandon Flowers a "B-Grade player" by today's standards? That is ridiculous. He's a top 5 player, he's consistently great, he plays one of the 2 most difficult positions to play, and he often times makes it look easy. I'm a little young, so I didn't get to see Albert Lewis with KC, just a little with Oakland, nor have I seen much of Ross or Thomas (except highlights), but I'm confident that Flowers would be there equal or more likely their better if he played alongside of them. Flowers is in my view the 3rd best CB in the league. He plays at an elite level and does it consistently. The only real knock you can put on him is that he only covers one part of the field.

I meant ďBy your assertion, many players today, not even of Flowersí caliber, would be better than their counterparts of yesteryear.Ē

Iím a fan of Flowers. I think you overvalue him. Iíd call him B+/A-. Not sure Flowers is top 5.

Regardless, having seen those others, heís not as good. Albert Lewis was top 5 in his time. So was Dale Carter.
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onejayhawk


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 5653
Location: Waco, Tx
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
I'll take Flowers first of all the KC corners mentioned by 86.

Wow! That's bold. I love Flowers, but I can't take him over any of those other guys.


see yourself out. All those other guys got to play while actually touching the receiver, Flowers doesn't get to do that, and he's still more shutdown than they are.

But I donít wanna go. Wah!

By your reasoning, most any B-grade corner playing today is better than a yesteryear counterpart.

Albert Lewis was a better corner during his era than Brandon Flowers is in his. So was Dale Carter and probably Emmitt Thomas and Kevin Ross at the very least. James Hasty might be too.

1. Albert Lewis
2. Emmitt Thomas
3. Dale Carter
4. Kevin Ross
5. James Hasty
6. Brandon Flowers

The all time best Chiefs secondary had to be Lewis, Ross, Deron Cherry and Lloyd Burress. Burress was okay, but his spot could have been manned by a chimp and it would still be the best unit.


Burress redefined SS into the way it is played today. Massive run support.

Hasty does not belong on that list. He was good, but the others are much better.

J
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onejayhawk wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Mongo wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
I'll take Flowers first of all the KC corners mentioned by 86.

Wow! That's bold. I love Flowers, but I can't take him over any of those other guys.


see yourself out. All those other guys got to play while actually touching the receiver, Flowers doesn't get to do that, and he's still more shutdown than they are.

But I donít wanna go. Wah!

By your reasoning, most any B-grade corner playing today is better than a yesteryear counterpart.

Albert Lewis was a better corner during his era than Brandon Flowers is in his. So was Dale Carter and probably Emmitt Thomas and Kevin Ross at the very least. James Hasty might be too.

1. Albert Lewis
2. Emmitt Thomas
3. Dale Carter
4. Kevin Ross
5. James Hasty
6. Brandon Flowers

The all time best Chiefs secondary had to be Lewis, Ross, Deron Cherry and Lloyd Burruss. Burruss was okay, but his spot could have been manned by a chimp and it would still be the best unit.


Burruss redefined SS into the way it is played today. Massive run support.

Hasty does not belong on that list. He was good, but the others are much better.

J

I think his placement is accurate, notwithstanding a legitimate case for Flowers. Who else was better? Hasty did make a Pro-Bowl.

PS: I confess my memory of Burruss is jaded. Living in PA in the mid to late 80's, seeing the Chiefs on TV was a rare occurrence prior to DirectTV and sports bars. I relied mostly on the printed word back then.

My comment wasn't necessarily meant as a jab at Burruss, but to highlight just how awesome the other three were.
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 8585
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HiccupGuy wrote:
Not to mention Rear. He has been a top 3-5 guy for what 3-4 years now? That is a long time for a player to keep up their play and I don't see any signs of him slowing down right now.


It is particularly a long time for a CB. If you follow the position much, a lot of guys rise and fall. Nnamdi Asomugha, Tramon Williams, Brent Grimes, Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Antonio Cromartie, Tim Jennings, Chris Houston, etc. A lot of guys spike up and then fall back down to a more normal level of play. Flowers has a level of consistency that really only Revis and Bailey have had the past few years.
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