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49ers Select TE Vance McDonald at #55
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Chrissooner49er


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 4056
Location: Tulsa, OK
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Vance being picked in this draft and Gray an UDFA, I hope Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are taking note...I don't think both Morrah and Celek make the final cut. I believe one of them will, but not both.

We may not keep Gray, but Vance is here to stay.
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Draft wishes:1st-Beckham/Cooks,Fuller/Verrett;2nd-T. Murphy,Moncrief,Su'a-Filo,M. Smith;3rd-Abbrederis,Ben Gardner,J.Watkins,T. Reilly...
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Ronnie's Pinky


Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 49ers, like pretty much every other team, obviously value character. That being said, they do not appear to see character issues in black and white. If they did, Anthony Davis and Navorro Bowman wouldn't be wearing red and gold. For reference, here are a couple of pre-draft summaries of these two from when they were still prospects:

Quote:
Summary: Davis' intangibles aren't as bad as Andre Smith's, but they're bad. Davis is a highly overrated prospect, but some team will still draft him in the top 25 picks. In the beginning of the year, his tape was terrible and this turned me off, but once he got in shape toward the middle/end of the season, he was far more productive. Davis will be as good as he wants to be, but ultimately he's not the type I'd take a chance on. Players with really poor intangibles - especially offensive tackles - don't often pan out in the NFL. Two sources have told me he performed poorly during the interviews at the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine.

And Bowman:

Quote:
1/5/10: Navorro Bowman has declared for the 2010 NFL Draft. Bowman has legal issues in his past, and being strictly a 4-3 linebacker, the lack of demand for that position could force him into Round 3.

5/20/09: Sentenced to probation a second time in April. The first was for disorderly conduct. The second for marijuana. Brad Childress is already interested.

2/16/09: Arguably the best player on Penn State's defense Navorro Bowman had 106 tackles, 16.5 TFL, four sacks and five passes broken up.

Seriously, this business about San Francisco only going for squeaky-clean guys is foolishness, and really, I'm glad it isn't true. Sometimes talent trumps character. The 49ers definitely like high-character players, and it is a terrible idea to have a lot of questionable guys in the same lockerroom. But we have excellent team leadership at this point (look at what Bowman says about Willis' influence on him), and can accommodate a few less than perfect citizens. Baalke and co. do not take a simpleminded approach to team-building. The FO obviously has great faith in the coaching staff, and if they think a player's talent outweighs his character concerns, they will bring him in.
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 40144
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Yeah, one look from Justin, and these knuckleheads will straighten up real quick.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 13366
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
The 49ers, like pretty much every other team, obviously value character. That being said, they do not appear to see character issues in black and white. If they did, Anthony Davis and Navorro Bowman wouldn't be wearing red and gold. For reference, here are a couple of pre-draft summaries of these two from when they were still prospects:

Quote:
Summary: Davis' intangibles aren't as bad as Andre Smith's, but they're bad. Davis is a highly overrated prospect, but some team will still draft him in the top 25 picks. In the beginning of the year, his tape was terrible and this turned me off, but once he got in shape toward the middle/end of the season, he was far more productive. Davis will be as good as he wants to be, but ultimately he's not the type I'd take a chance on. Players with really poor intangibles - especially offensive tackles - don't often pan out in the NFL. Two sources have told me he performed poorly during the interviews at the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine.

And Bowman:

Quote:
1/5/10: Navorro Bowman has declared for the 2010 NFL Draft. Bowman has legal issues in his past, and being strictly a 4-3 linebacker, the lack of demand for that position could force him into Round 3.

5/20/09: Sentenced to probation a second time in April. The first was for disorderly conduct. The second for marijuana. Brad Childress is already interested.

2/16/09: Arguably the best player on Penn State's defense Navorro Bowman had 106 tackles, 16.5 TFL, four sacks and five passes broken up.

Seriously, this business about San Francisco only going for squeaky-clean guys is foolishness, and really, I'm glad it isn't true. Sometimes talent trumps character. The 49ers definitely like high-character players, and it is a terrible idea to have a lot of questionable guys in the same lockerroom. But we have excellent team leadership at this point (look at what Bowman says about Willis' influence on him), and can accommodate a few less than perfect citizens. Baalke and co. do not take a simpleminded approach to team-building. The FO obviously has great faith in the coaching staff, and if they think a player's talent outweighs his character concerns, they will bring him in.



I think we have to dissociate legal issues from character. In many of these cases, it's young guys making mistakes. What scouts and the GM have to do is see what the guy really is underneath, and how he should pan out once placed in a proper environment. An NFL team isn't a college campus. These athletes wisen up once they realise how much money they're bound to lose if they make mistakes. And they have all the professional help they need to make sure they don't make those mistakes. So, I guess it comes down to determining whether the kid is an idiot who will repeat his mistakes, or a smart guy who will work hard to succeed. When Baalke talked to Anthony Davis, he probably saw that he could reason with him. That keeping his weight down and working hard would lead to the contract extension he just signed. Same with Bowman. The character was there. It was only a matter of recognising it, coming from a poor environment, and transposing it to a professional environment.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14413
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
The 49ers, like pretty much every other team, obviously value character. That being said, they do not appear to see character issues in black and white. If they did, Anthony Davis and Navorro Bowman wouldn't be wearing red and gold. For reference, here are a couple of pre-draft summaries of these two from when they were still prospects:

Quote:
Summary: Davis' intangibles aren't as bad as Andre Smith's, but they're bad. Davis is a highly overrated prospect, but some team will still draft him in the top 25 picks. In the beginning of the year, his tape was terrible and this turned me off, but once he got in shape toward the middle/end of the season, he was far more productive. Davis will be as good as he wants to be, but ultimately he's not the type I'd take a chance on. Players with really poor intangibles - especially offensive tackles - don't often pan out in the NFL. Two sources have told me he performed poorly during the interviews at the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine.

And Bowman:

Quote:
1/5/10: Navorro Bowman has declared for the 2010 NFL Draft. Bowman has legal issues in his past, and being strictly a 4-3 linebacker, the lack of demand for that position could force him into Round 3.

5/20/09: Sentenced to probation a second time in April. The first was for disorderly conduct. The second for marijuana. Brad Childress is already interested.

2/16/09: Arguably the best player on Penn State's defense Navorro Bowman had 106 tackles, 16.5 TFL, four sacks and five passes broken up.

Seriously, this business about San Francisco only going for squeaky-clean guys is foolishness, and really, I'm glad it isn't true. Sometimes talent trumps character. The 49ers definitely like high-character players, and it is a terrible idea to have a lot of questionable guys in the same lockerroom. But we have excellent team leadership at this point (look at what Bowman says about Willis' influence on him), and can accommodate a few less than perfect citizens. Baalke and co. do not take a simpleminded approach to team-building. The FO obviously has great faith in the coaching staff, and if they think a player's talent outweighs his character concerns, they will bring him in.


I'm not equating character with being squeky clean, In addition to the examples you cited there's also Boone. The only reason we got a guy as good aas he is when we did was because he had done some questionaable things just before the draft.

Maybe what I'm talking about is not so much "character" but "attiude". Football is full of me-first prima donnas. You just don't see many of those on the 49ers. If you've ever been on a team of any sort, even on a work team, you know that bad character in terms of selfishness or not giving your all for thee good of the team can kill a team. And there are guys that have been called "a cancer" to their teams because of the negative impact they've had on their teams. We took a shot Braylon Edwards and a few negative tweets later he was looking for work somewhere else.

The Grey quote was him not saying "hey, I want to be a qb". It's him saying he'll do whatever it takes to help the team. It's like Patton buying his own ticket out so he can get to work as quickly as possible. Its like Boone bustin his butt to get into great shape to be a good NL tackle and then being OK with a switch to G. Those are the kind of guys we tend to look for and that's what I'm talking about. And I do think it matters. Tons of guys with talent never reach their full potential because they don't have that drive to be evrything they can possibly be. We look for, and I think we do a good job of finding guys with that passion. I'm not saying at all that talent doesn't matter. Just that talent along with a burning desire to make the most of it and to help make your team better trumps lazy, me-first prima donnas every dat of the week.

TO was unquestionably an incredibly talented WR. B ut he was a destructive force on everyteaam he played on that they were happy to get rid of himrelativly quickly.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 423
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody's talking about Patton, Lockette, and Jenkins and which guy will step up and help fill the shoes of Crabtree. But everyone is overlooking this guy, who I think will be a major contributor 2013 with the loss of Crabs. He fits in so well with our offense, with the myriad of skills he possesses and the many ways he can be utilized.

http://youtu.be/tQq9Z4-TcC4
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14413
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
Everybody's talking about Patton, Lockette, and Jenkins and which guy will step up and help fill the shoes of Crabtree. But everyone is overlooking this guy, who I think will be a major contributor 2013 with the loss of Crabs. He fits in so well with our offense, with the myriad of skills he possesses and the many ways he can be utilized.

http://youtu.be/tQq9Z4-TcC4


Yeah. When someone asked in another thread which rookie will have the biggest impact it seems natural to say Reid. But I think, without seeing any of the new guys play of course, that McDonald should give him a run for his money. He should get all the snaps Walker used to get - which was a lot, and maybe even more if they look for options to pick up the slack left by the injury to Crabs. We really wanted McDonald. I'm hoping more than ever now that we were right about him.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Everybody's talking about Patton, Lockette, and Jenkins and which guy will step up and help fill the shoes of Crabtree. But everyone is overlooking this guy, who I think will be a major contributor 2013 with the loss of Crabs. He fits in so well with our offense, with the myriad of skills he possesses and the many ways he can be utilized.

http://youtu.be/tQq9Z4-TcC4


Yeah. When someone asked in another thread which rookie will have the biggest impact it seems natural to say Reid. But I think, without seeing any of the new guys play of course, that McDonald should give him a run for his money. He should get all the snaps Walker used to get - which was a lot, and maybe even more if they look for options to pick up the slack left by the injury to Crabs. We really wanted McDonald. I'm hoping more than ever now that we were right about him.


From everthing I've read from OTAs and rookie camp, he has looked impressive thus far. If he can learn from VD and work on those hands and concentration, he could really be a weapon. A guy his size that moves that well, with his strength is going to be a match-up nightmare for teams. I specifically used that vid because it shows the many ways he could be incoperated. I mean how many TEs do you see, are used for running reverses? He lines up all over the field...in the backfield, in the slot, out wide, in-line, he really fits in well with what we did with Delaine already. And you can see him drive-blocking guys all the way down the field. Just needs some technique work but he could be a better blocker than Delaine in a year. Remember Delaine was a WR in college. It took him years before he was good enough as a blocker to have a significant role on offense. With McD's size and strength, he could prove to be even more effective in this area. Now McD isn't the athlete Walker is. He doesn't present quite the mis-match Delaine did because Delaine had WR speed, but he's a different match-up problem because he's so big, yet has fluid movement, he creates seperation down the field in a different way. It isn't a explosive seperation, like with Delaine or VD, its a more of a deceptive seperation, like a Jason Witten. Can't wait to see how Roman utilizes him. If he can be CK's Jason Witten, that security blanket on 3rd down, we will have added another headache for teams to worry about.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 423
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Everybody's talking about Patton, Lockette, and Jenkins and which guy will step up and help fill the shoes of Crabtree. But everyone is overlooking this guy, who I think will be a major contributor 2013 with the loss of Crabs. He fits in so well with our offense, with the myriad of skills he possesses and the many ways he can be utilized.

http://youtu.be/tQq9Z4-TcC4


Yeah. When someone asked in another thread which rookie will have the biggest impact it seems natural to say Reid. But I think, without seeing any of the new guys play of course, that McDonald should give him a run for his money. He should get all the snaps Walker used to get - which was a lot, and maybe even more if they look for options to pick up the slack left by the injury to Crabs. We really wanted McDonald. I'm hoping more than ever now that we were right about him.


From everthing I've read from OTAs and rookie camp, he has looked impressive thus far. If he can learn from VD and work on those hands and concentration, he could really be a weapon. A guy his size that moves that well, with his strength is going to be a match-up nightmare for teams. I specifically used that vid because it shows the many ways he could be incoperated. I mean how many TEs do you see, are used for running reverses? He lines up all over the field...in the backfield, in the slot, out wide, in-line, he really fits in well with what we did with Delaine already. And you can see him drive-blocking guys all the way down the field. Just needs some technique work but he could be a better blocker than Delaine in a year. Remember Delaine was a WR in college. It took him years before he was good enough as a blocker to have a significant role on offense. With McD's size and strength, he could prove to be even more effective in this area. Now McD isn't the athlete Walker is. He doesn't present quite the mis-match Delaine did because Delaine had WR speed, but he's a different match-up problem because he's so big, yet has fluid movement, he creates seperation down the field in a different way. It isn't a explosive seperation, like with Delaine or VD, its a more of a deceptive seperation, like a Jason Witten. Can't wait to see how Roman utilizes him. If he can be CK's Jason Witten, that security blanket on 3rd down, we will have added another headache for teams to worry about.
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