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It's official: Martez Wilson will be an OLB, not ILB
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navysaintsfan


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 11081
Location: Frednecksburg, VA
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
navysaintsfan wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
navysaintsfan wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
-He Is Not A Good Edge Rusher


I think you missed a couple games, bro. He is better than you are giving him credit for.


Let me think...ok...here it is. Here are his sacks:

2011
Week 5 (vs Panthers): Lined up at ILB. Shot through the A gap, out-muscled the center and ran down Cam Newton like a Lion does a gazelle. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

Week 18 (vs 49ers): Lined up at ILB. Different game similar story. Shot up the A/B gap like a cannon and collected 1.5 sacks. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

2012
Week 5 (vs Chargers): Lined up at RDE. He went up against a LIMPING LT (Jared Gaither)and was able to easily run around the LT for the sack/fumble. You or I could have made that sack.

Week 9 (vs Eagles): Lined up at ILB...shot up the A gap like a rocket and put Michael Vick into the dirt before Vick had the opportunity to scramble. Very ala 2011. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

Week 10 (vs Falcons): Line up at ILB. Matt Ryan tripped over his own goofy feet and Martez Wilson two hand touched him for a sack. He was simply in the right place at the right time.

What were you saying again?


Because sacks are the only measure of ones pass rush ability. If that were the case we should have been done with Cam Jordan after his rookie season.

Are you honestly going to act like you never saw Tez getting into the backfield while lining up at DE? He did it a lot. Just never got to the QB. That doesn't mean he can't.

Yep, I posted an article from PFF awhile ago that showed on a per snap basis he was one of the best DEs in the league at pressuring the QB, he just didn't play much which I blame Spags more. I can definitely see Martez Wilson being a 10 sack guy and athletic enough to slow down the top TEs in the league.


In case Sammy missed it:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/05/new_orleans_saints_olb_martez.html

Quote:
According to Pro Football Focus, Wilson, who played mostly on passing downs last season, made the most of his playing time. Pro Football Focus said Wilson managed 24 total quarterback pressures in just 206 pass rush snaps.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/08/19/32-teams-in-32-days-new-orleans-saints/

Quote:
Martez Wilson is an intriguing option and has been solid in two preseason games after shifting to end from linebacker, where he flashed good pass rushing ability in limited snaps last season.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/14/shifting-schemes-new-orleans-saints-switch-to-3-4/

Quote:
Wilson played mostly on passing downs and nickel packages, but did manage 24 total QB pressures in just 206 pass rush snaps, so he was getting to the QB in 11.7% of his pass rush snaps. His size compares favorably to play the rush role at OLB and fits in well with Ryan’s aggressive, get to the QB style.


sammy, I am not denying that he would be a great fit at ILB, it is actually where I preferred him. But stop trying to act like he can't play OLB. You are the only person I have seen who thinks that he can't for some odd reason.
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 3399
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

navysaintsfan wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
navysaintsfan wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
navysaintsfan wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
-He Is Not A Good Edge Rusher


I think you missed a couple games, bro. He is better than you are giving him credit for.


Let me think...ok...here it is. Here are his sacks:

2011
Week 5 (vs Panthers): Lined up at ILB. Shot through the A gap, out-muscled the center and ran down Cam Newton like a Lion does a gazelle. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

Week 18 (vs 49ers): Lined up at ILB. Different game similar story. Shot up the A/B gap like a cannon and collected 1.5 sacks. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

2012
Week 5 (vs Chargers): Lined up at RDE. He went up against a LIMPING LT (Jared Gaither)and was able to easily run around the LT for the sack/fumble. You or I could have made that sack.

Week 9 (vs Eagles): Lined up at ILB...shot up the A gap like a rocket and put Michael Vick into the dirt before Vick had the opportunity to scramble. Very ala 2011. THIS IS HIS ROLE IN THE NFL.

Week 10 (vs Falcons): Line up at ILB. Matt Ryan tripped over his own goofy feet and Martez Wilson two hand touched him for a sack. He was simply in the right place at the right time.

What were you saying again?


Because sacks are the only measure of ones pass rush ability. If that were the case we should have been done with Cam Jordan after his rookie season.

Are you honestly going to act like you never saw Tez getting into the backfield while lining up at DE? He did it a lot. Just never got to the QB. That doesn't mean he can't.

Yep, I posted an article from PFF awhile ago that showed on a per snap basis he was one of the best DEs in the league at pressuring the QB, he just didn't play much which I blame Spags more. I can definitely see Martez Wilson being a 10 sack guy and athletic enough to slow down the top TEs in the league.


In case Sammy missed it:

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/05/new_orleans_saints_olb_martez.html

Quote:
According to Pro Football Focus, Wilson, who played mostly on passing downs last season, made the most of his playing time. Pro Football Focus said Wilson managed 24 total quarterback pressures in just 206 pass rush snaps.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/08/19/32-teams-in-32-days-new-orleans-saints/

Quote:
Martez Wilson is an intriguing option and has been solid in two preseason games after shifting to end from linebacker, where he flashed good pass rushing ability in limited snaps last season.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/14/shifting-schemes-new-orleans-saints-switch-to-3-4/

Quote:
Wilson played mostly on passing downs and nickel packages, but did manage 24 total QB pressures in just 206 pass rush snaps, so he was getting to the QB in 11.7% of his pass rush snaps. His size compares favorably to play the rush role at OLB and fits in well with Ryan’s aggressive, get to the QB style.


sammy, I am not denying that he would be a great fit at ILB, it is actually where I preferred him. But stop trying to act like he can't play OLB. You are the only person I have seen who thinks that he can't for some odd reason.


Sorry...there is no way that you can throw a statistic at me that will make me change my mind on this one. Martez Wilson is one of my favorite players on the Saints. He has unlimited potential and I tend to key in on him while he plays. Anytime he played OLB he was ineffective. Realize that Spags did start to play him at ILB as the season went on...and that is how he collected his final two sacks. So there is no way that you can say that that statistic was him only at the DE position. I am going to call BS.

He has one move...the outside dip. He has a decent bullrush...but not when he has to turn his hips over has he is performing the bull rush. What is a QB pressure anyway? Is a QB pressure when Wilson does his typical outside pass rush and the QB simply steps up into the pocket? Because that is NOT a pressure in my opinion. If there is no threat of a sack there is no pressure. And Wilson has no experience in man coverage. Coverage is not only about running as fast as the man you are covering...it is a skill...a skill Wilson has not demonstrated. He has tons more experience in zone coverage...both in college and the NFL.

So let me get this straight...

-Martez Wilson was a ILB in college

-He was drafted as an OLB for the Saints. But what did Gregg Williams do? He ended up playing him at ILB and was used in passing situations, either to blitz the A/B gaps or to drop back into a medium zone.

-Last year Spags saw his height/weight/speed combo and thoughts of Umenyiora pops into his head and he moves him to DE. By mid season Wilson ended up playing as much ILB as DE. Why do you think that is?

-This season...Ryan sees that Wilson has experience playing DE and was drafted to play OLB...so naturally he plans to move him to OLB. The problem is that he is overlooking everything Wilson has done well in both college and the NFL.

Here's a prediction...Wilson falls flat on his face as a OLB...and is a situational ILB by mid season. There is a trend here. So why not put him in the position that he can thrive from the very beginning? Who cares if we have an over the hill Jon Vilma and a very unproven Hawthorne already at the position...this is an investment into the future. There is no way that Wilson is going to beat out Victor Butler for the SOLB spot...and I would be surprised if he beats out Chase Thomas.
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.


If you trust Spag's personnel decisions more than GW's personnel decisions...then you might want to check your temperature and make sure that you don't have a fever. This may be delusion.

I am in wait and see mode. Ryan has to prove himself to me. I am done with assuming that things will get better due to change. Clearly..sometimes change makes things worse (cough, Spags, cough).
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.


If you trust Spag's personnel decisions more than GW's personnel decisions...then you might want to check your temperature and make sure that you don't have a fever. This may be delusion.

I am in wait and see mode. Ryan has to prove himself to me. I am done with assuming that things will get better due to change. Clearly..sometimes change makes things worse (cough, Spags, cough).

When did I ever say that?
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.


If you trust Spag's personnel decisions more than GW's personnel decisions...then you might want to check your temperature and make sure that you don't have a fever. This may be delusion.

I am in wait and see mode. Ryan has to prove himself to me. I am done with assuming that things will get better due to change. Clearly..sometimes change makes things worse (cough, Spags, cough).

When did I ever say that?


GW Thought That Wilson Was Best Fit On The Inside. Spags And now RR ThinkThat Wilzon Is Best Fit On The Outside. Who Do You Trust More.. Spags Or GW?
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.


If you trust Spag's personnel decisions more than GW's personnel decisions...then you might want to check your temperature and make sure that you don't have a fever. This may be delusion.

I am in wait and see mode. Ryan has to prove himself to me. I am done with assuming that things will get better due to change. Clearly..sometimes change makes things worse (cough, Spags, cough).

When did I ever say that?


GW Thought That Wilson Was Best Fit On The Inside. Spags And now RR ThinkThat Wilzon Is Best Fit On The Outside. Who Do You Trust More.. Spags Or GW?

Quote:
Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams confirmed that he envisions No. 72 overall pick Martez Wilson as a strong-side linebacker.
"He's the first guy we've had in here that really fits the profile of a Scott Fujita," Williams said. "... We were fortunate to get him where we got him (in Round 3)." Wilson is expected to compete with Jo-Lonn Dunbar for a starting job. The weak-side 'backer spot is likely Jonathan Casillas' to lose.


Now...what were you saying? Martez Wilson never played ILB under Gregg Williams, and quite frankly I don't remember him ever playing it under Spags either.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tez started at OLB today in OTAs, not sure why he was over Galette?
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
Tez started at OLB today in OTAs, not sure why he was over Galette?

They had Will Smith over Galette... Just kill me now.
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krewebrees


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Tez started at OLB today in OTAs, not sure why he was over Galette?

They had Will Smith over Galette... Just kill me now.


They also had Will Herring and Tom Johnson starting and Kenny Vaccaro with the 3rd team and Chase Thomas with the 4th. I'm not looking to much into it at this point.
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navysaintsfan


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I'm sure Rob Ryan did no research at all, he simply looked at what Spags put Martez at and said oh he must be an OLB then! Rolling Eyes I trust Ryan more then anyone on this forum so if Ryan sees him as an OLB, theirs obviously a reason.

Plus, Martez was a DE ALL of last year, he didnt get switched to ILB at the end of the year. He was a DE and played VERY little ILB all throughout the year.


If you trust Spag's personnel decisions more than GW's personnel decisions...then you might want to check your temperature and make sure that you don't have a fever. This may be delusion.

I am in wait and see mode. Ryan has to prove himself to me. I am done with assuming that things will get better due to change. Clearly..sometimes change makes things worse (cough, Spags, cough).

When did I ever say that?


GW Thought That Wilson Was Best Fit On The Inside. Spags And now RR ThinkThat Wilzon Is Best Fit On The Outside. Who Do You Trust More.. Spags Or GW?

Quote:
Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams confirmed that he envisions No. 72 overall pick Martez Wilson as a strong-side linebacker.
"He's the first guy we've had in here that really fits the profile of a Scott Fujita," Williams said. "... We were fortunate to get him where we got him (in Round 3)." Wilson is expected to compete with Jo-Lonn Dunbar for a starting job. The weak-side 'backer spot is likely Jonathan Casillas' to lose.


Now...what were you saying? Martez Wilson never played ILB under Gregg Williams, and quite frankly I don't remember him ever playing it under Spags either.


He did play some ILB, but it didn't seem to be much. He was envisioned as a OLB and was moved to DE. And I thought he looked great at DE.
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rickyt31


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Wilson as one of my possible breakout players of this season. I think he will do well under Rob's scheme. Coming into the draft I thought he was a better fit for a 3-4 ILB position, but I'm sure he developed better pass rushing moves from his time at DE that could help him as a blitzing 34 OLB.
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