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Predict the 53 Roster and Practice Squad-Post Draft
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 14410
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilmtalk wrote:
Will not argue the points you make Big49erfan. They are mostly valid. I probably should have been more descriptive rather than lumping a lot of variable skills under the label of Mental. I only tried to differentiate between the actual known physical attributes and those that are acquired through experience in the game.

Bottom line no one knows for sure how much Lockette has improved since last year. Then again no one knows how much Jenkins has improved since last year either, yet most posters don't seem to want to give Lockette the same benefit of the doubt that they are ready to give Jenkins. Jenkins is as much of an unknown as Lockette.

Jenkins well turn it around this season and become the player that most expected him to be. But-I think that last season a lot of fans confused their perception of Jenkins potential with the reality of what he actually produced. It is not a given that a player's skills and production in college will always translate into the NFL. Given the results of last year his ability to do so is still in question. This is the main reason I think it is presumptuous to make Jenkins a lock for anything given the available talent this year. It is only based on his #30 pick ( which is base on his college resume) and not on what he actually accomplished last year.

I must, however, answer you argument on potential in relation to when someone is picked. The picks aren't always done on a purely potential return basis as we should know. The difference between immediate need and future potential is a major factor. Most teams do not have the luxury to wait for some players to reach their potential but that does not mean that those players lack it. The Niner's are one team that can afford to draft on potential alone. There have also been many early round picks that have busted and late round picks that have become stars, so using that argument as the exclusive and infallible measure of potential is total BS. Your use is purely argumentative and as a rational for your point. It pisses me off to even have to waste the time to respond to it.

Basically we have two unknowns. One however has received praise form the coach and appears on the upswing. Jenkins has only been labeled as improved from last year- What ever that means. Lets just wait until they see the field before we label anyone, especially someone who has not shown anything last year as a lock.


Just a couple of quick points because I'm enjoying this discussion.

I'm afraid it will tick you off even more to know that I completely disagree with your posittion on potential and how guys are drafted, Except in the rare case of a guy who is injured and people aren't sure if he'll come back (Lattimore) guys are drafted based on how good teams think they will be. No team looks at a guy and thinks "He'll be a stud in 2 or 3 yeears but I can't wait that long so I gues I'll settle for this mediocre guy instead." Guys taken in the first round are peceived to have more potential to be meaningful contributors tha guys taken in the second. And so on through the draft. It's actually hard to think that you believe otherwise.

The other part of your statement on this topic simply doesn't make logical sense, Sure some first rouders don't make it, and some late rounders do. But that doesn't mean teams believe those lower round guys have more potential. It just means that the evaluators are fallible. If you're saying you think they got it wrong woth Jenkins and Lockette, then fine. Maybe they ddi. But we have precious little reason to think that yet. As you already said, we don't know how much either guy has improved. But we do know that Jenkins started out a long way ahead. Those evaluators don't get it right all the time, but they get it right more often than not. More first rounders have successful careers than second rounders, more seconds than third, and so on. A very,very small percentage of UDFAs have successful NFL careerss. So Lockette has a long road to travel.

Furthermore, you made the point twice that both of these guys are unknown and we don't know how much they've improved. The second part of that is true. The first part is completely untrue. We have their entire college careers to go by. What''s more, we have the one-year-old professional assessment on both guys by all 32 teams in the NFL. Not knowing how much they've improved does not mean we forget everything we know about them from before this mostly unknown year. Nor should it mean that somehow the UDFA has somehow become as likely to be as good as the first rounder, even though he didn't play last year. Our best guess should pretty much what it was a yar ago when 32 teams thought that Jenkins had a very much higher potential than Lockette. They could be wrong. As you pointed out, they sometimes are. But this long post is the answer to why most people have Jenkins on the 53 and not Lockette.

And to be clear, I couldn't care less which of them makes the roster. I'm certain we'll keep whichever is better, and I'm good with whichever one that is.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Glenn Dorsey playing NT for you guys?
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adamq


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Is Glenn Dorsey playing NT for you guys?


probably, although we ran the nickel 70% of the time last year. He'll spend most of his PT subbing for RayMac, or replacing Justin if he gets injured again.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Is Glenn Dorsey playing NT for you guys?


I remember his name linked to playing NT in practice more so than DE.

Am I remembering correctly that you stated a short while back that Dorsey was effective playing a 2 gap role?
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Gore Whore 21


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB-Colin Kaepernick-Colt McCoy
RB-Frank Gore-LaMichael James/Kendall Hunter
FB-Bruce Miller-Anthony Dixon

WR-Michael Crabtree-Quinton Patton/AJ Jenkins
WR-Anquan Boldin-Kyle Williams-Ricardo Lockette
TE-Vernon Davis-Vance McDonald-Garrett Celek

LT-Joe Staley-Adam Snyder
LG-Mike Iupati-Joe Looney
C-Jonathan Goodwin/Daniel Kilgore
RG-Alex Boone-Joe Looney
RT-Anthony Davis-Adam Snyder

DE-Justin Smith-Tank Carradine-Lawrence Okoye
NT-Glenn Dorsey-Ian Williams
DE-Ray McDonald-Quinton Dial-DeMarcus Dobbs

OLB-Aldon Smith-Corey Lemonier
MLB-Patrick Willis-Nick Moody
MLB-Navorro Bowman-Dan Skuta
OLB-Ahmad Brooks-Parys Haralson

CB-Carlos Rogers-Chris Culliver-Darryl Morris
CB-Tarell Brown-Nnamdi Asomugha

SS-Donte Whitner-Craig Dahl
FS-Eric Reid-CJ Spillman-Trent Robinson

LS-Brian Jennings
K-Phil Dawson
P-Andy Lee

Practice Squad
Luke Marquardt OT
Kenny Wiggins OT
Tony Jerrod-Eddie DE
BJ Daniels QB
Michael Thomas S
Marcus Cooper CB
Chuck Jacobs WR
Darius Fleming OLB

PUP
Mario Manningham WR
Marcus Lattimore RB
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Forge


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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gore Whore 21 wrote:
QB-Colin Kaepernick-Colt McCoy
RB-Frank Gore-LaMichael James/Kendall Hunter
FB-Bruce Miller-Anthony Dixon

WR-Michael Crabtree-Quinton Patton/AJ Jenkins
WR-Anquan Boldin-Kyle Williams-Ricardo Lockette
TE-Vernon Davis-Vance McDonald-Garrett Celek

LT-Joe Staley-Adam Snyder
LG-Mike Iupati-Joe Looney
C-Jonathan Goodwin/Daniel Kilgore
RG-Alex Boone-Joe Looney
RT-Anthony Davis-Adam Snyder

DE-Justin Smith-Tank Carradine-Lawrence Okoye
NT-Glenn Dorsey-Ian Williams
DE-Ray McDonald-Quinton Dial-DeMarcus Dobbs

OLB-Aldon Smith-Corey Lemonier
MLB-Patrick Willis-Nick Moody
MLB-Navorro Bowman-Dan Skuta
OLB-Ahmad Brooks-Parys Haralson

CB-Carlos Rogers-Chris Culliver-Darryl Morris
CB-Tarell Brown-Nnamdi Asomugha

SS-Donte Whitner-Craig Dahl
FS-Eric Reid-CJ Spillman-Trent Robinson

LS-Brian Jennings
K-Phil Dawson
P-Andy Lee

Practice Squad
Luke Marquardt OT
Kenny Wiggins OT
Tony Jerrod-Eddie DE
BJ Daniels QB
Michael Thomas S
Marcus Cooper CB
Chuck Jacobs WR
Darius Fleming OLB

PUP
Mario Manningham WR
Marcus Lattimore RB


Interesting choices on here for sure; especially the inclusion of Morris at CB rather than Cox/Brock and keeping Robinson/Dahl over McBath. I think you're right about Okoye though; i think he makes the final 53 because if we try and put him on the practice squad, i think someone is going to sign him. Also noted the exclusion of Tolzien from the depth chart; that'd be disappointing, but I think it's probably a coin flip on whether it happens or not. I really like what Tolzien potentially offers, but I could see him not making the team very easily.
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struby3


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Kyle Nelson makes the team over Brian Jennings for two reasons: 1) Nelson can actually play TE, allowing us to potentially carry only VD, Mac, and Nelson at TE and 2) He is younger and much cheaper. Baalke and Harbaugh love versatility, youth, and fair contracts.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
QB-Colin Kaepernick-Colt McCoy
RB-Frank Gore-LaMichael James/Kendall Hunter
FB-Bruce Miller-Anthony Dixon

WR-Michael Crabtree-Quinton Patton/AJ Jenkins
WR-Anquan Boldin-Kyle Williams-Ricardo Lockette
TE-Vernon Davis-Vance McDonald-Garrett Celek

LT-Joe Staley-Adam Snyder
LG-Mike Iupati-Joe Looney
C-Jonathan Goodwin/Daniel Kilgore
RG-Alex Boone-Joe Looney
RT-Anthony Davis-Adam Snyder

DE-Justin Smith-Tank Carradine-Lawrence Okoye
NT-Glenn Dorsey-Ian Williams
DE-Ray McDonald-Quinton Dial-DeMarcus Dobbs

OLB-Aldon Smith-Corey Lemonier
MLB-Patrick Willis-Nick Moody
MLB-Navorro Bowman-Dan Skuta
OLB-Ahmad Brooks-Parys Haralson

CB-Carlos Rogers-Chris Culliver-Darryl Morris
CB-Tarell Brown-Nnamdi Asomugha

SS-Donte Whitner-Craig Dahl
FS-Eric Reid-CJ Spillman-Trent Robinson

LS-Brian Jennings
K-Phil Dawson
P-Andy Lee

Practice Squad
Luke Marquardt OT
Kenny Wiggins OT
Tony Jerrod-Eddie DE
BJ Daniels QB
Michael Thomas S
Marcus Cooper CB
Chuck Jacobs WR
Darius Fleming OLB

PUP
Mario Manningham WR
Marcus Lattimore RB


Interesting choices on here for sure; especially the inclusion of Morris at CB rather than Cox/Brock and keeping Robinson/Dahl over McBath. I think you're right about Okoye though; i think he makes the final 53 because if we try and put him on the practice squad, i think someone is going to sign him. Also noted the exclusion of Tolzien from the depth chart; that'd be disappointing, but I think it's probably a coin flip on whether it happens or not. I really like what Tolzien potentially offers, but I could see him not making the team very easily.


Could we put Crabs on the PUP?
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
Forge wrote:
Gore Whore 21 wrote:
QB-Colin Kaepernick-Colt McCoy
RB-Frank Gore-LaMichael James/Kendall Hunter
FB-Bruce Miller-Anthony Dixon

WR-Michael Crabtree-Quinton Patton/AJ Jenkins
WR-Anquan Boldin-Kyle Williams-Ricardo Lockette
TE-Vernon Davis-Vance McDonald-Garrett Celek

LT-Joe Staley-Adam Snyder
LG-Mike Iupati-Joe Looney
C-Jonathan Goodwin/Daniel Kilgore
RG-Alex Boone-Joe Looney
RT-Anthony Davis-Adam Snyder

DE-Justin Smith-Tank Carradine-Lawrence Okoye
NT-Glenn Dorsey-Ian Williams
DE-Ray McDonald-Quinton Dial-DeMarcus Dobbs

OLB-Aldon Smith-Corey Lemonier
MLB-Patrick Willis-Nick Moody
MLB-Navorro Bowman-Dan Skuta
OLB-Ahmad Brooks-Parys Haralson

CB-Carlos Rogers-Chris Culliver-Darryl Morris
CB-Tarell Brown-Nnamdi Asomugha

SS-Donte Whitner-Craig Dahl
FS-Eric Reid-CJ Spillman-Trent Robinson

LS-Brian Jennings
K-Phil Dawson
P-Andy Lee

Practice Squad
Luke Marquardt OT
Kenny Wiggins OT
Tony Jerrod-Eddie DE
BJ Daniels QB
Michael Thomas S
Marcus Cooper CB
Chuck Jacobs WR
Darius Fleming OLB

PUP
Mario Manningham WR
Marcus Lattimore RB


Interesting choices on here for sure; especially the inclusion of Morris at CB rather than Cox/Brock and keeping Robinson/Dahl over McBath. I think you're right about Okoye though; i think he makes the final 53 because if we try and put him on the practice squad, i think someone is going to sign him. Also noted the exclusion of Tolzien from the depth chart; that'd be disappointing, but I think it's probably a coin flip on whether it happens or not. I really like what Tolzien potentially offers, but I could see him not making the team very easily.


Could we put Crabs on the PUP?


Yep. We'd have to activate him by week 11 (I believe) and then he could play 4 weeks later.
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49ersfan


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Posts: 6602
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Crabtree news, and more time to think, my new guess

QB: Kaepernick (McCoy, Daniels)
RB: Gore (Hunter, James, Dixon)
FB: Miller
TE: Davis (McDonald, Marquis Gray)
WR: Boldin, Patton (Jenkins, Williams, Manningham, Lockette)
OL: Staley, Iupati, Goodwin, Boone, Davis (Looney, Kilgore, Snyder)

DL: Smith, McDonald, Dorsey (Williams, Carradine, Dial, Okoye)
ILB: Willis, Bowman (Skuta, Moody)
OLB: Smith, Brooks (Lemonier, Haralson)
CB: Rogers, Culliver (Brown, Asomugha, Daryl Morris)
S: Eric Reid, Donte Whitner (Craig Dahl, CJ Spillman, Trenton Robinson)

K: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee
LS: Brian Jennings

PUP: Marcus Lattimore, Michael Crabtree

PS: QB Scott Tolzien, RB DJ Harper, WR Chuck Jacobs, OT Luke Marquardt, OT Carter Bykowski, DL Tony Jerrod-Eddie, OLB Cam Johnson, CB Marcus Cooper

Notable cuts: Garrett Celek, Marlon Moore, Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tuakufu, Darius Fleming, Perrish Cox, Tramaine Brock, Darcel McBath, Michael Wilhoite
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Brown not practicing, Asomugha was getting 1st team reps over Culliver. Not sure what to make of this, but the CB battle in training camp/preseason will be one to watch.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Taylor Price ‏@TaylorPrice49 5m
#49ers WR @Manningham49ers is now running & cutting. Harbaugh says he's "on track" to return in 2013. http://49rs.me/lnnYD


Quote:
"Mario Manningham (is) probably a little bit later than Kyle," the 49ers coach said, "but he's on track to be healed up and ready to go, as well."


Good sign he is cutting already, but still not sure he is ready for the season opener.
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Swift21


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Quote:
Taylor Price ‏@TaylorPrice49 5m
#49ers WR @Manningham49ers is now running & cutting. Harbaugh says he's "on track" to return in 2013. http://49rs.me/lnnYD


Quote:
"Mario Manningham (is) probably a little bit later than Kyle," the 49ers coach said, "but he's on track to be healed up and ready to go, as well."


Good sign he is cutting already, but still not sure he is ready for the season opener.


Very good news.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
With Brown not practicing, Asomugha was getting 1st team reps over Culliver. Not sure what to make of this, but the CB battle in training camp/preseason will be one to watch.


From what i understand, Culliver has not looked very good so far at OTA's. He was burned a few times during drills, including giving up the only touchdown during 7-7 redzone drills against chad hall I think. I'm starting to wonder about him.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
With Brown not practicing, Asomugha was getting 1st team reps over Culliver. Not sure what to make of this, but the CB battle in training camp/preseason will be one to watch.


From what i understand, Culliver has not looked very good so far at OTA's. He was burned a few times during drills, including giving up the only touchdown during 7-7 redzone drills against chad hall I think. I'm starting to wonder about him.


Still feel like he should have been moved to FS. Things could change, but Culliver was never very good at spotting the ball. He can run with most receivers, but he has poor ability to locate the ball as it arrives. His prior experience and skill as a S would have been the way to go, IMHO. Keeping things (mostly) in front of him while utilizing that 4.3 speed and length? Talk about click and close. (drools on self).

Eric Reid at SS and Chris Culliver at FS....
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