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5th Round (167): Josh Boyd, DT, Mississippi State
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dijatool


Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Posts: 362
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
Gopackgonerd wrote:
He'd have to beat out some people. Really I only say this because of depth at the DL. Looking at our DLinemen- Raji, Neal, Jones, Pickett, Boyd, Wilson, Jolly, Worthy, then Daniels. You never know if Pena or someone else comes out of the shades and has a good camp. I have no doubt he'll make it if Worthy goes on the PUP, which is immanent. But all the talks of getting bigger, stronger, tougher, and faster, idk if Daniels will be here long. By all means he could prove me wrong and turn into a good player. I hope I'm wrong. Laughing

The Jones pick makes it so Daniels is no longer a lock. But with the Neal contract running dry I cant see TT letting Daniels get away. The others play a different position in my eyes. I don't view this as a development thing. Daniels is a damn good interior pass rusher right now. Third on that list after Neal and Jones.

No way I keep a 27 year old rookie like Pena over him, I can tell ya that.

If you go back to the playoff game in San Francisco, Daniels is one of the guys who keeps showing up all game long. Where he wound up wasn't always ideal, but he was getting penetration.

I'd take the wager that Daniels will still be around when the smoke clears in late August.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
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Location: Kinston, NC
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dijatool wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Gopackgonerd wrote:
He'd have to beat out some people. Really I only say this because of depth at the DL. Looking at our DLinemen- Raji, Neal, Jones, Pickett, Boyd, Wilson, Jolly, Worthy, then Daniels. You never know if Pena or someone else comes out of the shades and has a good camp. I have no doubt he'll make it if Worthy goes on the PUP, which is immanent. But all the talks of getting bigger, stronger, tougher, and faster, idk if Daniels will be here long. By all means he could prove me wrong and turn into a good player. I hope I'm wrong. Laughing

The Jones pick makes it so Daniels is no longer a lock. But with the Neal contract running dry I cant see TT letting Daniels get away. The others play a different position in my eyes. I don't view this as a development thing. Daniels is a damn good interior pass rusher right now. Third on that list after Neal and Jones.

No way I keep a 27 year old rookie like Pena over him, I can tell ya that.

If you go back to the playoff game in San Francisco, Daniels is one of the guys who keeps showing up all game long. Where he wound up wasn't always ideal, but he was getting penetration.

I'd take the wager that Daniels will still be around when the smoke clears in late August.


It'd be epically foolish to let Daniels go simply because of his height/burst combination. Frankly, I thought he was a steal last year given what he was able to do at Iowa when healthy. The guy just has a knack for getting through blocks. Why would we even think about cutting a player like that. If anyone's not a lock, it's CJ Wilson unfortunately. Boyd will take a year to develop, but he does not have the luxury of a lack of depth like we've had in previous years. Ergo, Boyd would either wind up far down the bench or find his way to the PS with Pena. I suspect that if Neal doesn't do too much this year, or gets hurt again for that matter, we'll let him walk and continue to develop Boyd.
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The Kuhn


Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 369
Location: UWM
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
dijatool wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Gopackgonerd wrote:
He'd have to beat out some people. Really I only say this because of depth at the DL. Looking at our DLinemen- Raji, Neal, Jones, Pickett, Boyd, Wilson, Jolly, Worthy, then Daniels. You never know if Pena or someone else comes out of the shades and has a good camp. I have no doubt he'll make it if Worthy goes on the PUP, which is immanent. But all the talks of getting bigger, stronger, tougher, and faster, idk if Daniels will be here long. By all means he could prove me wrong and turn into a good player. I hope I'm wrong. Laughing

The Jones pick makes it so Daniels is no longer a lock. But with the Neal contract running dry I cant see TT letting Daniels get away. The others play a different position in my eyes. I don't view this as a development thing. Daniels is a damn good interior pass rusher right now. Third on that list after Neal and Jones.

No way I keep a 27 year old rookie like Pena over him, I can tell ya that.

If you go back to the playoff game in San Francisco, Daniels is one of the guys who keeps showing up all game long. Where he wound up wasn't always ideal, but he was getting penetration.

I'd take the wager that Daniels will still be around when the smoke clears in late August.


It'd be epically foolish to let Daniels go simply because of his height/burst combination. Frankly, I thought he was a steal last year given what he was able to do at Iowa when healthy. The guy just has a knack for getting through blocks. Why would we even think about cutting a player like that. If anyone's not a lock, it's CJ Wilson unfortunately. Boyd will take a year to develop, but he does not have the luxury of a lack of depth like we've had in previous years. Ergo, Boyd would either wind up far down the bench or find his way to the PS with Pena. I suspect that if Neal doesn't do too much this year, or gets hurt again for that matter, we'll let him walk and continue to develop Boyd.


I agree with everything except the bold. Neal has slowly but surely improved over the course of last season and he will continue that progression this season. While he isn't a traditional "3 down lineman" like Jones might turn out to be, Neal still is our best pass rusher on the DL as of today. Actually, I find it interesting that you link Neal and Boyd at all. IMO, the only thing they have in common is that they play on the same DL. Their positions are essentially different. The fact is: Boyd isn't going to develop into a pass rush threat Jones or Neal or Danials, that just isn't the player he is. Just like Jones is an ideal candidate for our RDE position, Boyd fits the bill of a LDE player in our base defense. I for one would rather keep Neal and Boyd and cut ties with CJ Wilson since that is essentially the player Boyd will develop into. Ted doesn't draft players in the 5th round so that they can sit on the practice squad unless they are extremely raw, which Boyd isn't. We know he ceiling and it won't take him long to reach it. I for one do not want to risk placing Boyd on the PS where some DL needy team will scoop him up.
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Gopackgonerd


Joined: 04 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dijatool wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
Gopackgonerd wrote:
He'd have to beat out some people. Really I only say this because of depth at the DL. Looking at our DLinemen- Raji, Neal, Jones, Pickett, Boyd, Wilson, Jolly, Worthy, then Daniels. You never know if Pena or someone else comes out of the shades and has a good camp. I have no doubt he'll make it if Worthy goes on the PUP, which is immanent. But all the talks of getting bigger, stronger, tougher, and faster, idk if Daniels will be here long. By all means he could prove me wrong and turn into a good player. I hope I'm wrong. Laughing

The Jones pick makes it so Daniels is no longer a lock. But with the Neal contract running dry I cant see TT letting Daniels get away. The others play a different position in my eyes. I don't view this as a development thing. Daniels is a damn good interior pass rusher right now. Third on that list after Neal and Jones.

No way I keep a 27 year old rookie like Pena over him, I can tell ya that.

If you go back to the playoff game in San Francisco, Daniels is one of the guys who keeps showing up all game long. Where he wound up wasn't always ideal, but he was getting penetration.

I'd take the wager that Daniels will still be around when the smoke clears in late August.


Penas 27? Shocked Didn't know that..

I didn't see much from him honestly in the 49ers game.. Hell our whole d-line was poop that game.

I just don't like the scheme fit. Now is he a bad player? No. I don't think the Packers would of kept him if he was. He's a fine pass rusher. But in the run game vs some of the bigger guys in the league I see problems.

If they keep him I won't be surprised. I just think there is better players on the team, and he'll just be pushed back in the depth chart. If Worthy goes on the pup he'll definitely make it.
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Beast


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 2275
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
The Jones pick makes it so Daniels is no longer a lock. But with the Neal contract running dry I cant see TT letting Daniels get away. The others play a different position in my eyes. I don't view this as a development thing. Daniels is a damn good interior pass rusher right now. Third on that list after Neal and Jones.


I think the Packers are going to keep as many DL as they think they reasonable can. Why?

Because Pickett, Wilson and Neal all of their contracts running up and Raji has a voidable 2014 year in his contract (which I still don't know who's call that is... the Packers or Raji or both?) ...

I'm guessing, "as many DL as they think they reasonable can" would mean 7 guys... as they normally only keep 6 and they like LBers, TEs and DBs for STs.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
blankman0021 wrote:
We had what, 7 WR on the roster at the end of last year. It will not shock me if we run heavy at the DL positions when the final roster comes out.


Big difference between going heavy on WRs (or LBs, or TEs, of FBs, etc.) than going heavy on DL is that DL guys don't play special teams, and pretty much all non-linemen and non-QBs do.


I have to disagree... when did you see James Jones, Boykins, Jennings, or Driver on STs (OTHER THAN hands team?)... also with Cobb and Ross back there, did Nelson play on STs at all?

DL can and have been blockers for FG and punting and I think Justin Harrell was injured once while blocking for one of them.

And Daniels is on the kick return team as a blocker, he's normally close to Cobb so the kick off players have to go to him instead of him go to them.

Also Boyd looks as quick as Daniels.

And Datone Jones ran faster than LB Moses and only 0.04 seconds slower than Lattimore and Manning in the 40 yard dash (if that means anything) and he was over 45 pounds heavier and he's stronger.

They used Collins on STs, so I assume they would use a 1st round DP if he's not a starter.
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Beast


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I view Boyd as a natural 3-tech and don't love the idea of him starting at any of them in this fit. Can give ya good reps at all of them though. Just think the value river met the road with that one on draft day. Doubt they loved the fit on paper. Then again, they do give a lot of those 3-tech looks in fit from time to time.


Yeah I was wondering about that... seems like the Packers have a number of 3-tech which I think might be better for the 4-3 system or the nickle/dime packages (which basically is a 4-2 or 4-1 system with the OLBers playing the role of 4-3 DEs (but out of a two point stance))

But Raji, Neal, Daniels, Boyd all seems like 3-tech would be their best fit. Which is fine for the Packers subpackages but they also need to fit the 3-4 to get a good down and distance to get to those sub packages.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beast wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I view Boyd as a natural 3-tech and don't love the idea of him starting at any of them in this fit. Can give ya good reps at all of them though. Just think the value river met the road with that one on draft day. Doubt they loved the fit on paper. Then again, they do give a lot of those 3-tech looks in fit from time to time.


Yeah I was wondering about that... seems like the Packers have a number of 3-tech which I think might be better for the 4-3 system or the nickle/dime packages (which basically is a 4-2 or 4-1 system with the OLBers playing the role of 4-3 DEs (but out of a two point stance))

But Raji, Neal, Daniels, Boyd all seems like 3-tech would be their best fit. Which is fine for the Packers subpackages but they also need to fit the 3-4 to get a good down and distance to get to those sub packages.


See this is why I'm torn on the Boyd pick, he's more of a space-eater than anything else which you'd think would be great for the 3-4 system. However, you look at who else we have at that position and you can't help but wonder if he's a bit of a misfit. Sure we can mold him into what we want but I just don't see him as a good fit for the 3-4. Neal and Daniels, however, I think are great for the 3-4, and Wilson's size makes him a better 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE.
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Beast


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
Beast wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
I view Boyd as a natural 3-tech and don't love the idea of him starting at any of them in this fit. Can give ya good reps at all of them though. Just think the value river met the road with that one on draft day. Doubt they loved the fit on paper. Then again, they do give a lot of those 3-tech looks in fit from time to time.


Yeah I was wondering about that... seems like the Packers have a number of 3-tech which I think might be better for the 4-3 system or the nickle/dime packages (which basically is a 4-2 or 4-1 system with the OLBers playing the role of 4-3 DEs (but out of a two point stance))

But Raji, Neal, Daniels, Boyd all seems like 3-tech would be their best fit. Which is fine for the Packers subpackages but they also need to fit the 3-4 to get a good down and distance to get to those sub packages.


See this is why I'm torn on the Boyd pick, he's more of a space-eater than anything else which you'd think would be great for the 3-4 system. However, you look at who else we have at that position and you can't help but wonder if he's a bit of a misfit. Sure we can mold him into what we want but I just don't see him as a good fit for the 3-4. Neal and Daniels, however, I think are great for the 3-4, and Wilson's size makes him a better 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DE.



I think it depends what type of 3-4 you're talking about. There is more than one style of 3-4 defense.

Neal and Daniels are a great fit for the aggressive 3-4 defenses, but not for the more traditional 3-4 which have their DEs act like mini under sized NTs which then Wilson and Boyd are the great fits (and that's the reason (or one of them) why Wilson was a starter, because they normally started in traditional last year.)

The Packers don't have one system, they try to do a little of everything to mix it up, so they can get the match-up system wise they see as the best against a certain offense.

My biggest problem is that I don't think Raji or Neal are a great fit in the traditional, and I don't think Pickett or Wilson are a great fit in the aggressive. Yet I think Raji and Pickett have been out playing the others in their roles and deserve to be on the field (unless it's clearly a passing down where Pickett should be on the bench).

I've thought the best way to fit both systems (in the past) might be been going to a 4-3 look (out of the 3-4) ... basically have Pickett as 4-3 NT, Raji as 4-3 UT, Neal as 4-3 DE and Matthews as rushing OLB / 4-3 DE which is kind of like the Broncos/Seahawks systems which are kind of both as well. And at one point is was rumored the coaches thought about Neal at OLB in the nickel 2-4 packages where the OLB are basically lined up on the OT like 4-3 DEs.


Though I'm thinking the new guys, Worthy, Daniels, Jones and Boyd are better at doing some both of the agressive and traditional... but we'll have to wait and see to know. And so with the better fit hopefully they'll be better at doing both.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it will not be hard to find reps for Boyd in Capers D. The thing that stands out about Capers D from others is clearly all the looks he brings ya on both the front and back end. By % you see a hair more two gap up front but there is still more than enough one gap play. Same way with zone/man on the backend.

At times I find myself yelling at the TV because I like the D's that keep things simple and just play fast as well(see Bears). That said, I have seen first hand what this D can do when all is well and I have faith that Capers will work out the flaws here sooner rather than later.
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Jsitton71#


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I swear the more tape I watch on this kid the more I love this pick. This big boys got some hustle. They say his production was down last season because Fletcher Cox wasn't there. I cant wait to see him next to Jones, Raji, Clay, and Nick. This kid will be a downright beast in this defense paired with this kind of talent. Check out this guys speed. This kid gives way better pass rush than Pickett and Wilson could ever dream of. Watch this big nose tackle rundown this QB Very Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRjgAwdJg4
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dijatool


Joined: 17 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jsitton71# wrote:
I swear the more tape I watch on this kid the more I love this pick. This big boys got some hustle. They say his production was down last season because Fletcher Cox wasn't there. I cant wait to see him next to Jones, Raji, Clay, and Nick. This kid will be a downright beast in this defense paired with this kind of talent. Check out this guys speed. This kid gives way better pass rush than Pickett and Wilson could ever dream of. Watch this big nose tackle rundown this QB Very Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRjgAwdJg4

Thanks for that. He's not Big Daddy Lipscomb but he moves laterally pretty well.
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