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Maddogg


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away......
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: No Super Bowl In Miami Reply with quote

The Florida legislature refused to vote on a bill to use tax dollars for renovations for the Dolphins stadium.

Linky : http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22190365/dolphins-stadium-bill-rejected-miami-super-bowl-bid-probably-dead


In my opinion this is a good thing because :

1) Public Sector - Tax dollars are needed more for public uses such as schools, police, firemen and other infrastructure projects.

2) Jobs - Owners always spout off its going to create thousands of jobs and its going to boost the local economy. Thats gotta be the biggest lie after me telling the woman from last night that I will call her. The construction jobs are only temporary and most bought in from outside sources. There are no good paying long term jobs created by NFL owners.

3) Owners - If this is such a good project, why don't owners pay for it themselves? Or get a loan? You will never see an NFL team(except Green Bay) open up their books for public examination. The income generated is mind boggling. This is why you will see owners coming to the public half hat in head begging and the other half threatening to move if they don't get their way.

4) Fans - Any new stadium or project has never made it easier financially for the fan base. All you get is an increased ticket price, pay more for parking and that warm beer just went up another buck. Of course the owners tell you that that project costs a lot of money and the only way they can pay for it is for you to pay for it. Never mind that they have received tax exemptions, public funding, local code variances and fees waived. Now Mr. Ross will have to come up with a different lie as to why prices went up, saying he just wants to be richer may not fly.
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hes just trying to keep the franchise on par with the rest of the league. I find this to be bad news because eventually if the state keeps turning its back on the team, the team leaves and finds somewhere willing to support it.
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MiaDolphan13


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: No Super Bowl In Miami Reply with quote

[quote="Maddogg"]The Florida legislature refused to vote on a bill to use tax dollars for renovations for the Dolphins stadium.

Linky : http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22190365/dolphins-stadium-bill-rejected-miami-super-bowl-bid-probably-dead


In my opinion this is a good thing because :

1) Public Sector - Tax dollars are needed more for public uses such as schools, police, firemen and other infrastructure projects.

2) Jobs - Owners always spout off its going to create thousands of jobs and its going to boost the local economy. Thats gotta be the biggest lie after me telling the woman from last night that I will call her. The construction jobs are only temporary and most bought in from outside sources. There are no good paying long term jobs created by NFL owners.

3) Owners - If this is such a good project, why don't owners pay for it themselves? Or get a loan? You will never see an NFL team(except Green Bay) open up their books for public examination. The income generated is mind boggling. This is why you will see owners coming to the public half hat in head begging and the other half threatening to move if they don't get their way.

4) Fans - Any new stadium or project has never made it easier financially for the fan base. All you get is an increased ticket price, pay more for parking and that warm beer just went up another buck. Of course the owners tell you that that project costs a lot of money and the only way they can pay for it is for you to pay for it. Never mind that they have received tax exemptions, public funding, local code variances and fees waived. Now Mr. Ross will have to come up with a different lie as to why prices went up, saying he just wants to be richer may not fly.

The job statement is not entirely correct. Alot of companies rely on constant short term jobs and then lay off workers. Thats the name of the construction business. Some money is better than no money especially in this economy.

It was also stated that they would be using local companies as part of the proposal. [/b]
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As this in not necessarily football talk and the debate will most likely delve into politics I would suggest that it is locked...
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) There won't be any more money going to any of these uses because there won't be a tax increase. It's not like they proposed to take money away from these uses.

3) Ross was willing to fund more than half of it. The problem here is that the stadium belongs to Ross so Miami Gardens doesn't feel the need to help him out like most cities do help out their local teams.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we don't get a SB. The team that hosts the SB always fails. I would enjoy a rain roof though. We'll probably end up getting a new stadium 15 years down the road, with a rain roof.
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PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy who shot down the vote was Speaker of the House Will Weatherford, a representative from Tampa.
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Jaytotha


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatriotsWin! wrote:
The guy who shot down the vote was Speaker of the House Will Weatherford, a representative from Tampa.


Probably a buccs fan....SMH
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dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the state messed up. Whether you believe it should've been passed or not, the people should get to decide.

I think Ross will fund what he can, and then maybe look for a private investor to fund the rest and give them naming rights on something, like the training facility.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the great state of Florida got this one right.

Look no further than the Marlins to see what happens when public funding is used to improve a privately owned business.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
IMO the great state of Florida got this one right.

Look no further than the Marlins to see what happens when public funding is used to improve a privately owned business.


Lol the two situations are nowhere near the same.

Marlins reported losses, so they claimed they needed public funding or they would have to move. The truth? The Marlins had been making a lot of money but stashed it under a different name. The company the money was stashed in? The two owners were Jeffrey Loria and the team president.

Ross is already paying for 70 percent and offering to pay the city back, also the stadium benefits the county because Super Bowls bring in at least $250 million in revenue.

Whether you believe it should be passed or not, it's sad that the people don't get to decide.

I don't live in Miami so I don't care. I just wish those in power remember that they are in power because the people allow them to be.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
IMO the great state of Florida got this one right.

Look no further than the Marlins to see what happens when public funding is used to improve a privately owned business.


Lol the two situations are nowhere near the same.

Marlins reported losses, so they claimed they needed public funding or they would have to move. The truth? The Marlins had been making a lot of money but stashed it under a different name. The company the money was stashed in? The two owners were Jeffrey Loria and the team president.

Ross is already paying for 70 percent and offering to pay the city back, also the stadium benefits the county because Super Bowls bring in at least $250 million in revenue.

Whether you believe it should be passed or not, it's sad that the people don't get to decide.

I don't live in Miami so I don't care. I just wish those in power remember that they are in power because the people allow them to be.


Ross can pay for 100%, and in that regard it is NO different than the Marlins.

I love the Dolphins, but having the public pay for any part of any Professional Entertainment / Sports Stadium is just plain backwards.

There's no need for the people to vote on where the State spends it's money....... That's part of normal government operations. We vote for and pay Government to take care of those decisions for us, and if they don't get it right then we vote for someone else next term.

As for the Stadium benefitting the County; I disagree, and thankfully so does the State Government. For every study that claims that Stadiums and Superbowls benefit the local economy, there's another study ( usually done with a real economist and not an economist being paid by the NFL ) that says otherwise.

Owners want new or renovated Stadiums to increase the value of their privately owned teams and that's the bottom line. Why should the public pay anything for that????
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ProudDolphan47


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's keep this relevant to how it affects football in the city of Miami and not the general concepts of politics please.
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Owners want new or renovated Stadiums to increase the value of their privately owned teams and that's the bottom line. Why should the public pay anything for that????


This line bothers me. You can tell Ross cares for this team. One, he bought the stadium which ties him to this city for life, that is why almost all stadiums are publicly owned because it makes a team difficult to sell. It's also why he didn't get any funding when any other city would have done so. Two, he regularly buys hundreds of tickets each game so that it won't be blacked out each week for the fans at home. We have the worst fan attendance in the NFL if you count empty seats rather than ticket sales. Three, almost all team events are free which is very rare for any franchise. Fan attendance to games will only increase the profit of the NFL, not the Dolphins. So a more advanced stadium has nothing to do with profit for him and everything to do with fans.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: No Super Bowl In Miami Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
The Florida legislature refused to vote on a bill to use tax dollars for renovations for the Dolphins stadium.

Linky : http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22190365/dolphins-stadium-bill-rejected-miami-super-bowl-bid-probably-dead


In my opinion this is a good thing because :

1) Public Sector - Tax dollars are needed more for public uses such as schools, police, firemen and other infrastructure projects.

I believe the money for this was going to come from new revenue streams? But I may be mistaken. Also, the stadium renovations would have also brought more money to the area, which eventually turns into more tax revenue in the long run. Increased property tax values, increased dollars spent for parking, hotels, food, alcohol, gift shops, etc. All of that adds up to a higher tax base from which to draw MORE income in the long run for local schools, police and firemen. The question is how much more and is it worth it.

2) Jobs - Owners always spout off its going to create thousands of jobs and its going to boost the local economy. Thats gotta be the biggest lie after me telling the woman from last night that I will call her. The construction jobs are only temporary and most bought in from outside sources. There are no good paying long term jobs created by NFL owners.

While I think job creation numbers can be overstated at times, I think this is a bit short sighted. We aren't just talking about the jobs created during construction or specifically at the stadium. We are talking about things like the billions of dollars having another super bowl in town brings to the city. More concerts, other sporting events. All of it brings money to the cities. And money being spent in the city brings other jobs. Potentially a new hotel gets built. More staff has to be kept on at some restaurants. It all flows down and dollars brought to the city always turns into jobs.

3) Owners - If this is such a good project, why don't owners pay for it themselves? Or get a loan? You will never see an NFL team(except Green Bay) open up their books for public examination. The income generated is mind boggling. This is why you will see owners coming to the public half hat in head begging and the other half threatening to move if they don't get their way.

The sad truth is that if the city of Florida isn't willing to pay for it, then I guarantee some other city will. It's a competitive market for NFL teams out there and a smart city would offer them more to try to lure them away from Miami. Not saying it would happen anytime soon, but it's the way the world works.

4) Fans - Any new stadium or project has never made it easier financially for the fan base. All you get is an increased ticket price, pay more for parking and that warm beer just went up another buck. Of course the owners tell you that that project costs a lot of money and the only way they can pay for it is for you to pay for it. Never mind that they have received tax exemptions, public funding, local code variances and fees waived. Now Mr. Ross will have to come up with a different lie as to why prices went up, saying he just wants to be richer may not fly.

You are probably right here. Although there would be the added benefit of a better experience at the game you would hope, but yes, everything would get more expensive. Then again, more revenue for the team is never a bad thing for fans. We all know the higher revenue teams in general tend to do better statistically speaking. The more money Ross makes, the more he has to spend! So it's not all negative. But if you don't care about the stadium experience and just want to have your beers on a crappy seat and watch the game and could care less about bells and whistles, then this would be a bad deal for you.

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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WaterBear56 wrote:
Quote:
Owners want new or renovated Stadiums to increase the value of their privately owned teams and that's the bottom line. Why should the public pay anything for that????


This line bothers me. You can tell Ross cares for this team. One, he bought the stadium which ties him to this city for life, that is why almost all stadiums are publicly owned because it makes a team difficult to sell. It's also why he didn't get any funding when any other city would have done so. Two, he regularly buys hundreds of tickets each game so that it won't be blacked out each week for the fans at home. We have the worst fan attendance in the NFL if you count empty seats rather than ticket sales. Three, almost all team events are free which is very rare for any franchise. Fan attendance to games will only increase the profit of the NFL, not the Dolphins. So a more advanced stadium has nothing to do with profit for him and everything to do with fans.


And if renovating the stadium brings more fans to the games, then you have less blackouts and fans at the games have more fun.
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