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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 34426
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly enough Vegas O/U for him right now is 4.5 sacks. But I do believe it is rather short sighted to point at a number as being indicative of an entire performance. Surely there are more and/or better indicators of success.
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MrDirt


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
I will be watching to see what his aggregate numbers are this season.

I don't think its fair to expect to much, to soon, but he is the number five pick so in no way does he get a free pass.

One would hope the number five pick contributes immediately.


If he is a day 1 starter, will that count as 'contributing'? I would hope that he is one of our best 2 DEs.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YlionsY wrote:
Why would he need 4.5 sacks or more?

What if he gets 4 but shows dominance on the line and forces double blocks like Suh?

Its just his rookie year. We can't go off of one stat and say whether he is successful or not. 2 sacks isn't indicative of a bust and 10 sacks doesn't make him an instant HOF.

There is just so much more than one stat. I know we got him as a pass rusher. Someone to get to the QB. There is still a developmental stage.



Actually according to Mayhew they didn't draft a project.


Top 5 picks are expected to PRODUCE.

Fact everyone in here is making excuse after excuse just shows how bad if a project he is
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Why would he need 4.5 sacks or more?

What if he gets 4 but shows dominance on the line and forces double blocks like Suh?

Its just his rookie year. We can't go off of one stat and say whether he is successful or not. 2 sacks isn't indicative of a bust and 10 sacks doesn't make him an instant HOF.

There is just so much more than one stat. I know we got him as a pass rusher. Someone to get to the QB. There is still a developmental stage.



Actually according to Mayhew they didn't draft a project.


Top 5 picks are expected to PRODUCE.

Fact everyone in here is making excuse after excuse just shows how bad if a project he is

No excuse, I expect him to produce. I just don't accept your definition of production is all. And I agree for the same reasons. I think a project can be drafted in the top 5, but Mayhew has said he is ready, so I expect him to play. All players go through a time getting used to NFL speed, so that is to be expected. But I expect him to be productive because Mayhew said he is ready, not for any other reason.

But as others have alluded to, he could get 10 sacks and I could be completely disappointed in his productivity and he could get 0 and I could be completely happy. I find your assertion that all that matters is sacks shallow at best and deluded at worst.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDirt wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
I will be watching to see what his aggregate numbers are this season.

I don't think its fair to expect to much, to soon, but he is the number five pick so in no way does he get a free pass.

One would hope the number five pick contributes immediately.


If he is a day 1 starter, will that count as 'contributing'? I would hope that he is one of our best 2 DEs.


Simply starting isn't enough for a top 5 pick in my view.
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detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of the talk of him being so raw is overblown.

Yeah he's only been playing the game for 3 years, and only has 9 starts under his belt, but everyone acts as if he looks clueless on the field or has no instincts, which isnt the case.

He finds the ball constantly. Has good fundamentals, but can be better there.

He didnt have big sacks numbers, but thats not what BYU asked him to do. He played the run very well in college, and was even used at NT. He did fill the stat sheet.

If I had extra money to blow I would take the over on 4.5 in a heartbeat.
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Detroitlions703


Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?
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Hahaha. This team does not belong here
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Hold on mods. I wanna see where this goes.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47250
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing
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LionsFTW


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47250
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 34426
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works

So 0 this year then 10 next year is cool?

Just trying to figure out the rules here.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47250
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works

So 0 this year then 10 next year is cool?

Just trying to figure out the rules here.


Not rules. Standards.

No REGARDLESS he needs 5 this

Progression from there on out rest of career

5 is my baseline for him
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works

So 0 this year then 10 next year is cool?

Just trying to figure out the rules here.


Not rules. Standards.

No REGARDLESS he needs 5 this

Progression from there on out rest of career

5 is my baseline for him

Well see, now I am confused. You said 2 then 57 was OK because 57 was double digits. But now 0 and 10 doesn't work because 0 is less than 5. Are we back to the orignal statement now then? So does that mean 2 then 57 means he is a bust because he didn't get 5 the first year? Or is 0 then 10 OK because the second year is double digits?
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 47250
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works

So 0 this year then 10 next year is cool?

Just trying to figure out the rules here.


Not rules. Standards.

No REGARDLESS he needs 5 this

Progression from there on out rest of career

5 is my baseline for him

Well see, now I am confused. You said 2 then 57 was OK because 57 was double digits. But now 0 and 10 doesn't work because 0 is less than 5. Are we back to the orignal statement now then? So does that mean 2 then 57 means he is a bust because he didn't get 5 the first year? Or is 0 then 10 OK because the second year is double digits?


My stance has Never changed! He listed 57 which was dumb. I answered a sarcastic response which is all he is known for with sarcastic response

5 this year is a must! Period

Progression from there

This isn't difficult

5
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 34426
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Detroitlions703 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Mario Williams had 4.5 sacks his rookie year.

Chris Long had 4, 5, 8, then 11.5 and 13. I would say he is far from a bust.

JJ Watt had 5

JPP was drafted top 15, I would say his impact expectations were similar.

If Ansah has 5 but makes strides, it's no bust. DEs take longer to be NFL ready than most positions.


5 would exceed 4.5 so you are saying same thing I did


Wait, wait, wait. I want to hear you actually say this. You are saying if he ends the season with 4 sacks or lower, in your eyes he will be a bust. However if he has 5 or more he will not be considered a bust?



No I am saying if 4.5 or less as a pass rushing specialist at #5 then bust. He was drafted for pass rushing


What if he had 2 this year but 57 next year? Still a bust?


He would need double digit next so 57 works

So 0 this year then 10 next year is cool?

Just trying to figure out the rules here.


Not rules. Standards.

No REGARDLESS he needs 5 this

Progression from there on out rest of career

5 is my baseline for him

Well see, now I am confused. You said 2 then 57 was OK because 57 was double digits. But now 0 and 10 doesn't work because 0 is less than 5. Are we back to the orignal statement now then? So does that mean 2 then 57 means he is a bust because he didn't get 5 the first year? Or is 0 then 10 OK because the second year is double digits?


My stance has Never changed! He listed 57 which was dumb. I answered a sarcastic response which is all he is known for with sarcastic response

5 this year is a must! Period

Progression from there

This isn't difficult

5

OK, got it. So if he gets 4.5 sacks, 93 pressures, and 50 hurries, then 34 sacks his second year, he is a bust.

Just looking for clarification is all.
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