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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22251
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudderfudder77 wrote:
Scala wrote:
What were the four games that Kyle Long played?


He played in 11 games, but these are the four he started at LG in:

USC, Oregon St., Stanford, Arizona St.


He kicked out to LT early in that ASU game.
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 807
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pinky wrote:
Scala wrote:
What were the four games that Kyle Long played?


football, baseball, trivial pursuit and the game of thrones Laughing
Well played, sir....Well played.
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Scala


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info.
Time to ESPN Player! Very Happy
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selkiesxx wrote:
I'm glad MadMike decided to act like a pompous jerk for half this thread, that made for an interesting read. Laughing Is he usurping my title?

Anyway...

Kyle Long was an excellent pick, especially when you consider how the board was falling and the type of player that he is. Four game starter or not, guys with his athleticism don't come along very often especially at his size. He can play tackle or guard, has nastiness to his game and has clearly learned from his mistakes. We can whine about value all we want but it's pretty clear he was valued more by scouts than the media. I see nothing to knock the kid for other than inexperience.

Jon Bostic was a slight reach but it's not like we had a third rounder to fall back on. Everyone else provided terrific value at a position of need.

In a normal draft Long would have been a second rounder more than likely. Ratings for players are extremely arbitrary and almost team specific. What goes into a teams evaluation is clearly variable or there would be unanimity on the rankings. And there isn't.
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bears2308


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 2431
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudderfudder77 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Mudderfudder77 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
How can you grad the dude without seeing him play as a Bear.


You grade the pick and what kind of fit it is...you obviously can't grade how well they will play without seeing them.



Most people had Brown mocked as a first rounder, would have graded the Bears an A if they had taken him there, despite the fact it would have been 30 picks too early. Yet Long gets a D. Arbitrary and pointless.


How exactly is it?…I didn’t hear you calling Long a first round pick at any point in this process…I didn’t hear many calling a guy who started all of 4 games a first round pick…it’s easy to point things out in hindsight…as I said you have to grade the Long picks in two ways…one which is how he is going to contribute right away as a first round pick…which is a D…and one which is how he is going to contribute down the line…with is a B- since I think he is our future at RT…

And also the Superbowl champions with the best GM in football just traded up to grab Brown to replace arguably the best LB of all time…if that isn’t a ringing endorsement of the guys talent I don’t know what is.


I didn't think Long was a first round pick. I'm also a guy sitting at home watching YouTube videos. I've never seen Long in practice, or spoken wit him, or his coaches. Charlie Casserlt had Long at 22, Kiper had him at 20 a couple of weeks ago. Mike Mayock had Long as his 29th best prospect, and Greg Cosell had him as a first rounder who might be the best LT in the draft.

As for Brown, the point is that he went 30 spots later than many here would have been thrilled to draft him at. Even the Ravens let him drop into the 50's. and yet if we had taken him at 20 you and others would have given the Bears an A for that pick - despite eviscerating Emery for doing essentially that.


Boom. Which is why I don't listen to anyone about our picks and trust NFL scouts. If Long was the top pick for Emery, and other NFL executives say he wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round, then I'm all for it.

Saying he graded out as a D given our guard situation is ridiculous.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Pompei

Quote:
A couple of days before the draft, I heard the Cowboys were a threat to take Long in the first round, perhaps if they moved down from the 18th pick. I later heard from league sources outside of Halas Hall that the Colts (24th pick) and Rams (22nd pick) were very interested in drafting him. Some suspected the Packers (26th pick) also were in the Long market.

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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei

Quote:
A couple of days before the draft, I heard the Cowboys were a threat to take Long in the first round, perhaps if they moved down from the 18th pick. I later heard from league sources outside of Halas Hall that the Colts (24th pick) and Rams (22nd pick) were very interested in drafting him. Some suspected the Packers (26th pick) also were in the Long market.


Man having the surname Long really helps you come draft time Laughing

I think Long could be a good player given time…but I just think a guy who is so inexperienced with off-field issues shouldn’t be that high a pick…I’m surprised how many teams fell in love with the genetics…hopefully he works out well for us and can move to tackle at some point.
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Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instant grades are nonsense. Most independent sites give the Bears an instant c. What if Long turns into the next Van Horne for a decade and Bostic the next Urlacher? Cool

Ask again in a year or two. Wink
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 5347
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badger75 wrote:
Instant grades are nonsense. Most independent sites give the Bears an instant c. What if Long turns into the next Van Horne for a decade and Bostic the next Urlacher? Cool

Ask again in a year or two. Wink
Like any grade it's done for fun.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9596
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei

Quote:
A couple of days before the draft, I heard the Cowboys were a threat to take Long in the first round, perhaps if they moved down from the 18th pick. I later heard from league sources outside of Halas Hall that the Colts (24th pick) and Rams (22nd pick) were very interested in drafting him. Some suspected the Packers (26th pick) also were in the Long market.


Man having the surname Long really helps you come draft time Laughing

I think Long could be a good player given time…but I just think a guy who is so inexperienced with off-field issues shouldn’t be that high a pick…I’m surprised how many teams fell in love with the genetics…hopefully he works out well for us and can move to tackle at some point.


It is because you cannot coach athletic ability.

Long's technique will be better before Larry Warford, who I like, becomes more athletic.

There is one thing that you cannot teach in sports and that is athletic ability.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei

Quote:
A couple of days before the draft, I heard the Cowboys were a threat to take Long in the first round, perhaps if they moved down from the 18th pick. I later heard from league sources outside of Halas Hall that the Colts (24th pick) and Rams (22nd pick) were very interested in drafting him. Some suspected the Packers (26th pick) also were in the Long market.


Man having the surname Long really helps you come draft time Laughing

I think Long could be a good player given time…but I just think a guy who is so inexperienced with off-field issues shouldn’t be that high a pick…I’m surprised how many teams fell in love with the genetics…hopefully he works out well for us and can move to tackle at some point.


It is because you cannot coach athletic ability.

Long's technique will be better before Larry Warford, who I like, becomes more athletic.

There is one thing that you cannot teach in sports and that is athletic ability.


Yeah but we also know coaches have massive egos and think they can mold athletes to what they want them to be and many elite athletes have failed in the past…athletic ability is without doubt important but we all know there is far more to being an NFL player than having athletic ability…I’m not saying Long doesn’t have what it takes to live up to that athletic ability and become a quality player but given the sample size of what he has actually done on the field it is a clear gamble based on nothing more than athletic ability and genetics.
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 807
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
The statement that started it all...I am not sure Long was a reach when multiple teams right after the Bears pick were set to take him.


Says who?


Says Howie Long.


Laughing what do you expect the guys dad to say..."no only the Bears thought he was any good"



Laughing

Again...it's the guys dad...what are you expecting him to say when he is asked the question?...maybe another team was going to take him in the first round...and maybe he wasn't...we will never know because GMs aren't stupid enough to come out and say that... It never ceases to amaze me how short a time "never" is.

Also Kyle Long himself said he was surprised to be drafted so high so teams weren't talking to him that much.

Plenty of things he could have said other than blowing smoke about who else was looking to take him.. Sometimes where there is smoke, there is fire.

That is a really convoluted way of saying you have no idea how to answer that question without making yourself look like more of an idiot. How does that foot taste? You sure put your foot in your mouth, repeatedly. Suffice it to say that something about that statement does not ring true now that further information is available.


Selkiesxx wrote:
I'm glad MadMike decided to act like a pompous jerk for half this thread, that made for an interesting read. Laughing

Madmike90 wrote:

Nothing pompous about telling it like it is. ...and that is what I am doing...telling it like it is. Laughing


Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei

Quote:
A couple of days before the draft, I heard the Cowboys were a threat to take Long in the first round, perhaps if they moved down from the 18th pick. I later heard from league sources outside of Halas Hall that the Colts (24th pick) and Rams (22nd pick) were very interested in drafting him. Some suspected the Packers (26th pick) also were in the Long market.

I’m surprised how many teams fell in love with...If you had kept an open mind and reserved judgement, you would have been considerably LESS surprised.





Whatever it is they fell in love with, it is great to see you are no longer in denial that Long was, in fact, in demand by multiple teams within the first round. Yesterday I looked like an idiot, according to you, because I believed Long's father that multiple teams were set to take Kyle in the first round. Today there is further discussion by other credible sources that indicates the information I was working with was, in fact, correct.

I am positive that it would be hazardous to my health holding my breath waiting for an apology from you, though. Nevertheless, no hard feelings. Even if it appears that it is difficult for you to admit when you are wrong, I can easily admit you were wrong. I am not sayin'....I'm just sayin'. Wink
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
Whatever it is they fell in love with, it is great to see you are no longer in denial that Long was, in fact, in demand by multiple teams within the first round. Yesterday I looked like an idiot, according to you, because I believed Long's father that multiple teams were set to take Kyle in the first round. Today there is further discussion by other credible sources that indicates the information I was working with was, in fact, correct.

I am positive that it would be hazardous to my health holding my breath waiting for an apology from you, though. Nevertheless, no hard feelings. Even if it appears that it is difficult for you to admit when you are wrong, I can easily admit you were wrong. I am not sayin'....I'm just sayin'. Wink


Most around here will tell you that you should have just left it…

To begin with what Howie Long said according to you is different from what Dan Pompei is reporting…you made a definitive statement that Howie Long said “multiple teams right after the Bears pick were set to take him”…that isn’t what Pompei said…Pompei used terms such as “were a threat to take him”…”interested in drafting him”…”some suspect the Packers also were in the Long market.”…none of which are a definitive statement…we have heard from Emery that a draft board is made up of 3 or 4 guys who you just won’t pass up if they fall…4 or 5 guys who you target with your pick…and 4 or 5 guys who you would target after a trade back…what makes you think every other team in the NFL isn’t doing the same thing?...Pompei who has far more insight to these franchises than Long has isn’t make a statement that they were going to take him had he been on the board…he is saying that Long was an option to be taken by those teams…which no one ever denied…my issue was this belief that even tho Kyle Long has stated on multiple occasions that he was surprised to go so high then how could Howie know for sure…as he stated according to you…that Kyle was going to go right after our pick?...he can’t and nothing about what Pompei has reported says he would have been drafted right after our pick…had Pompei came out and said for example “I’m told the Colts were going to draft Long had he been available” then that validation of your argument…but he didn’t say that…the only report of a journalist saying a certain player was going to be a team’s pick is Peter King with the Texans and Arthur Brown…

Quote:
SI's Peter King reports LB Arthur Brown was "going to be" the Texans' pick at No. 57 before the Ravens traded up to get him.

Per King, the Broncos also had interest in Brown at No. 58. Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome had to give up the No. 165 and 199 picks to move up just six spots, but it will be well worth it if Brown steps into a starting role as a rookie. Rotoworld draft guru Josh Norris considered Brown a top-10 overall talent.


That is a statement by a journalist…what Pompei is providing is an insight into the possibilities that teams were looking at…no definitive statement…can you see the difference?...

And let’s look at this statement by you…

Quote:
Today there is further discussion by other credible sources that indicates the information I was working with was, in fact, correct.


You don’t see why I was far more open to a report from Pompei over Howie Long?...because Pompei is a credible source as an unbiased journalist where as a guy’s father isn’t a credible source regardless of wither or not he is a hall of famer…if Jon Bostic’s dad told the media that his son was the second coming of Ray Lewis would you believe it?...of course you wouldn’t but fathers will back their sons to the hilt…let’s look at some other examples of Howie being bias towards his son…Howie told ChicagoBears.com “Kyle has always been an extremely kind person, a good guy.”…was he a good guy when he wasn’t attending class and flunking out at Florida State…taking drugs…and endangering people’s lives by driving under the influence?...does that sound like a credible opinion to you? Because to me it sounds like a father glossing over the issue…

I would fully back Pompei’s statement that Long was an option for teams in the first round…I have never denied that…but the question I asked to you early still stands and hasn’t been answer by Pompei or by yourself…if Kyle was surprised to be drafted so highly then how could Howie possible know he was going to be draft right after our pick?
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Most would have told you to let it go...." If that does not smack of visions of grandeur! I don't need other's approval to post. Nor do I have a need to be backed up by cheerleaders. I am guessing that rather than telling me to "let it go," I would be told that trying to get you to see where you are wrong is a waste of my time. That is kind of like "let it go."

The next time you make a statement about someone making themselves look like an idiot, just remember that when you point that finger that there are three more fingers pointing back at yourself.

As I said, I have no problem admitting that you are wrong, notwithstanding your inability to assess the same. You certainly make for an interesting case study. Wink
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadrunner wrote:
"Most would have told you to let it go...." If that does not smack of visions of grandeur! I don't need other's approval to post. Nor do I have a need to be backed up by cheerleaders. I am guessing that rather than telling me to "let it go," I would be told that trying to get you to see where you are wrong is a waste of my time. That is kind of like "let it go."

The next time you make a statement about someone making themselves look like an idiot, just remember that when you point that finger that there are three more fingers pointing back at yourself.

As I said, I have no problem admitting that you are wrong, notwithstanding your inability to assess the same. You certainly make for an interesting case study. Wink


Oh there is no grandeur attached to it…it’s just others who have been here for longer know I don’t really back down from an argument…it’s something I’m working on…just ask Al lol…

This newest post of yours doesn’t in anyway shape or form prove your argument to be right or that I am wrong…it’s just lots of pointless sayings…you haven’t shown the ability to answer a single question I poised in my last post…

So I will leave you with the original question that has still not been answered…If Kyle was surprised at how highly he was draft how could Howie know he was going to be picked right after our pick?...when you can answer that I will fully admit I was wrong to question it.
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