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My Dream come true for a 2nd rd. pick
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Marcus21


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
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Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Teo' is who I'm hoping for @51.

Doubt it happens, but all this stuff with him could scare teams away, as we scoop him up.

Kerrigan---Fletcher---Teo'---Orakpo---would not be fair. Laughing

Riley shares time...


There is no possible way Teo beats out Riley. Doesnt matter. I could see us taking him in the 4th if he was there which he wont!!!
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S. Taylor


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Can Robert Woods play Free Safety?

I swear. If we don't solve the void at that position we've had since Sean Taylor was killed I'm going to be pretty frustrated.

Many talked about no one being there to cover for Wilson and Hall when they got beat deep or let wrs go to the safeties in their deep zone and the safeties couldn't cover anything. If we can upgrade that, our team will immediately be better. Especially with Orakpo back and if other stars like Garcon and Davis can stay healthy.

It just makes sense to do that first and then go BPA in positions we need on the team.



One problem with this logic is looking for Sean Taylor.
He was a one of a kind athlete/player at that position.

Surely, good safeties have entered the NFL since Taylor, but none with his instinct/ability/size/speed combination.

Lastly, a player like that surely won't available at 51.
In the future, if there's a prospect remotely close to Sean Taylor, he'll be a top 10 selection.
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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Can Robert Woods play Free Safety?

I swear. If we don't solve the void at that position we've had since Sean Taylor was killed I'm going to be pretty frustrated.

Many talked about no one being there to cover for Wilson and Hall when they got beat deep or let wrs go to the safeties in their deep zone and the safeties couldn't cover anything. If we can upgrade that, our team will immediately be better. Especially with Orakpo back and if other stars like Garcon and Davis can stay healthy.

It just makes sense to do that first and then go BPA in positions we need on the team.


Your logic is extremely flawed turtle. I understand that we need a free safety and I understand that was by far our biggest weakness last year. However, you can't get locked in on one position like that. For example, say we get to pick 51 and Cyprien/Elam/Reid/Swearinger are all gone. If their next rated free safety is Phillip Thomas with a fourth round grade, do NOT take "best available free safety and then go bpa after that."

It's just not a smart way to operate, and it frustrates me to no end that you never grasp this concept. We are returning 21/22 starters from our playoff team last year. We have our core group of guys already with some pretty solid depth. If they don't take a free safety in round 2 or even round 3, that doesn't mean they are trying to neglect the position. It just means they are going for guys with higher grades on their draft boards at other positions, and are waiting to pull the trigger on a free safety at a time of value. This franchise has a plan. They know exactly who they are targeting in each round and they have backup plans for everything. Please, please do not blow up these boards with negativity if the Redskins draft differently than you would have. Like I said, they know what they are doing. Don't just draft a free safety rated fairly high on Mel Kiper's big board just to appease a few fans. That's what Cerratto did for years and look where that got us.

What we really need is to add some more playmakers on both sides of the ball. RG3 is really the only guy I would classify as a playmaker on our team right now. As I stated, we have a good core with solid depth. But we are missing at least one or two more game changing players whether it be at wide receiver, corner, or safety. I have a strange feeling we are going offense heavy in this draft with a couple of secondary guys sprinkled in. Just based off Shanny's presser and what some of the insiders have been saying. It seems to me they think they can get by on defense by plugging a few holes but want to surround RG3 with as many weapons as possible and really keep teams off balance. Just a hunch.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S. Taylor wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Can Robert Woods play Free Safety?

I swear. If we don't solve the void at that position we've had since Sean Taylor was killed I'm going to be pretty frustrated.

Many talked about no one being there to cover for Wilson and Hall when they got beat deep or let wrs go to the safeties in their deep zone and the safeties couldn't cover anything. If we can upgrade that, our team will immediately be better. Especially with Orakpo back and if other stars like Garcon and Davis can stay healthy.

It just makes sense to do that first and then go BPA in positions we need on the team.



One problem with this logic is looking for Sean Taylor.
He was a one of a kind athlete/player at that position.

Surely, good safeties have entered the NFL since Taylor, but none with his instinct/ability/size/speed combination.

Lastly, a player like that surely won't available at 51.
In the future, if there's a prospect remotely close to Sean Taylor, he'll be a top 10 selection.
I didn't say he has to be Sean Taylor but in 5 years since Sean was killed we really haven't looked to upgrade that position with a long term Option within the first 3 rounds of the draft.

I don't expect anyone we draft at FS to be Sean, probably never, but I do expect us to draft someone who can be better than what we've run out there at FS since Sean's death.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigJohnson wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Can Robert Woods play Free Safety?

I swear. If we don't solve the void at that position we've had since Sean Taylor was killed I'm going to be pretty frustrated.

Many talked about no one being there to cover for Wilson and Hall when they got beat deep or let wrs go to the safeties in their deep zone and the safeties couldn't cover anything. If we can upgrade that, our team will immediately be better. Especially with Orakpo back and if other stars like Garcon and Davis can stay healthy.

It just makes sense to do that first and then go BPA in positions we need on the team.


Your logic is extremely flawed turtle. I understand that we need a free safety and I understand that was by far our biggest weakness last year. However, you can't get locked in on one position like that. For example, say we get to pick 51 and Cyprien/Elam/Reid/Swearinger are all gone. If their next rated free safety is Phillip Thomas with a fourth round grade, do NOT take "best available free safety and then go bpa after that."
well most, including me don't have Phillip Thomas nor Bacarri Rambo with a 4th round grade. They are graded as late 2nd or early 3rds by most just like Swearinger is.

Quote:
It's just not a smart way to operate, and it frustrates me to no end that you never grasp this concept. We are returning 21/22 starters from our playoff team last year.
then just quit worrying about what I write then. I do understand you want to get the best player, but it still doesn't mean you take a player who won't likely contribute for a few years when you need someone who will.

Yeah and 21 of 22 starters returning from last years playoff team, what's the one position that we aren't returning a starter from?

Ohhhhh Yeahhhh it's the FREE SAFETY Right? Wink

I totally understand the draft concept, but that still doesn't mean that I don't want a FS with our 2nd round pick if one is available that is worthy of the pick we should take him and I most certainly believe there will be one available.

Quote:
We have our core group of guys already with some pretty solid depth. If they don't take a free safety in round 2 or even round 3, that doesn't mean they are trying to neglect the position. It just means they are going for guys with higher grades on their draft boards at other positions, and are waiting to pull the trigger on a free safety at a time of value.
well, how long is that wait going to be? Another 5 years? I mean at some point they have to draft a DB high again that they can develop into hopefully a pro bowler.

Look I like the young guys we have on the roster but none of them have proven anything right now and I personally wouldn't pass up a talented DB.

I mean, maybe they aren't neglecting the position, I don't think I said that word but they certainly haven't made it a top priority in the draft.

Also, if they don't have some of these DBs at the highest parts of their draft board at every pick, then they need to get a new draft board. There are a lot of good DBs all throughout this draft because its one of the deepest positions. If they're gone though when you select, of course you look at other needs to fill.

Quote:
This franchise has a plan. They know exactly who they are targeting in each round and they have backup plans for everything. Please, please do not blow up these boards with negativity if the Redskins draft differently than you would have. Like I said, they know what they are doing. Don't just draft a free safety rated fairly high on Mel Kiper's big board just to appease a few fans. That's what Cerratto did for years and look where that got us.
I know they have a plan and right now I'm still waiting to see what that plan is for their secondary.

Cerrato constantly drafted best player available as well, do you not remember?

3 of those ended up being top DBs in the top 10 like Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers and Laron Landry.

Where that best available philosophy started to fail was in the 2nd round and beyond. Remember, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly were the best available players in round 2 in 2008... We loaded up with a bunch of inexperienced pass catchers on offense for our young developing qb.

How'd that work out?

As to the other part of your post which is typical, trying to tell me what to do. Ill do what I please when I talk about the redskins, I'm certainly not going to hold an opinion back to please you or something.

Why come on here and try to change people? I may disagree with people's opinions or what the team does, but I don't order people to act a certain way. That's quite rude and disrespectful.

Quote:
What we really need is to add some more playmakers on both sides of the ball. RG3 is really the only guy I would classify as a playmaker on our team right now. As I stated, we have a good core with solid depth. But we are missing at least one or two more game changing players whether it be at wide receiver, corner, or safety. I have a strange feeling we are going offense heavy in this draft with a couple of secondary guys sprinkled in. Just based off Shanny's presser and what some of the insiders have been saying. It seems to me they think they can get by on defense by plugging a few holes but want to surround RG3 with as many weapons as possible and really keep teams off balance. Just a hunch.
I think long term we need to think upgrading the playmakers, but short term we need to fix our DB positons.

You could be right, maybe we're trying to be the 08 Broncos as Dashing said. Just keep loading up on offensive playmakers while leaving one of the units on defense to remain one of the worst in the NFL because we constantly get bottom of the barrel FAs and late round picks to fill those positions. All the fans will continue to complain about that one unit and take it out on the defensive coordinator but in reality it will be the front offices fault for not correctly addressing that unit and eventually if the team doesn't win playoff games because the front office didn't make the entire team better, and they will all be looking for work.

Not saying that's going to happen but if we keep passing on secondary talent to get depth at other positions then eventually it will take its toll on the team as a whole.
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BigJohnson


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
well most, including me don't have Phillip Thomas nor Bacarri Rambo with a 4th round grade. They are graded as last 2nd or early 3rds by most just like Swearinger is.


Well, you and most people aren't the Redskins front office. If Phillip Thomas is rated as a 4th rounder on their big board (just an example) and he's the best available free safety, they should not take him plain and simple. If two players have similar draft grades, then yes, lean towards the need. But reaching is a terrible idea.

Quote:
then jist quit worrying aboht whay i write then. I do understand you want to get the best player, but it still doesn't mean you take a player who won't likely contribute for a few years when you need someone who will.

I totally understand the draft concept, but that still doesn't mean that I don't want a FS with our 2nd round pick if one is available that is worthy of the pick.


Your pretty much agreeing with me then? Of course I want a free safety if he's worthy of the pick. But that's not what I'm arguing.

Quote:
well, how long is that wait going to be? Another 5 years? I mean at some point they have to draft a DB high again that they can develop into hopefully a pro bowler.


Here's what I'm trying to say. We needed a QB in the worst way in the 2011 draft. We had John friggin Beck and Rex Grossman. But aren't you glad we didn't reach for Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder just because we needed a quarterback in the worst way? They waited until they found their guy in RG3. It doesn't matter if they address the free safety position if they address it with the wrong guy.

Quote:
Look I like the young guys we have on the roster but none of them have proven anything right now and I personally wouldn't pass up a talented DB.


Me neither. You are misconstruing what I am attempting to say. I want a talenteed defensive back just as much as you do.

Quote:
I mean, maybe they aren't neglecting the position, I don't think I said that word but they certainly haven't made it a top priority in the draft.


You can't address everything every offseason. Shanny and Allen have done a great job turning over the roster. The secondary is our only glaring weakness at the moment and hopefully we address it through the draft this time around, just as long as they are good value picks on the Skins big board.

Quote:
Also, if they don't have some of these DBs at the highest parts of their draft board at every pick, then they need to get a new draft board. There are a lot of good DBs all throughout this draft because its one of the deepest positions. If they're gone though when you select, of course you look at other needs to fill.


It is a deep draft for secondary but me nor you has any idea how they rate these guys. Whoever they select tomorrow, you can be sure that it was close to the top player on their board.

Quote:
Cerrato constantly drafted best playe available as well, do you not remember?
Most of those ended up being top 10 DBs like Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers and Laron Landry.


Your right, Ceratto did often go for the best player available. But those were all either good or great picks so your sort of proving my point that bpa is the way to go.

Quote:
Where that best available philosophy started to fail was in the 2nd round and below. Remember, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly were the best available players in round 2 in 2008...

How'd that work out?


Well, it worked out terrible. But I'm pretty convinced those were just the best players available on Mel Kiper's big board and not truly the BPA. We needed receivers in the worst way and we selected Thomas and Kelly to give Zorn some shiny new toys for his west coast offense. There were a reason those guys fell though, we just chose to ignore. Fred Davis was the pick everyone complained about because we already had Cooley, and he was by far our best selection that draft.

Quote:
As to the other part of your post which is typical, trying to tell me what to do. Ill do what I please when I talk about the redskins, I'm certainly not going to hold an opinion back to please you or something.

Why come on here and try to change people? I may disagree with people's opinions or what the team does, but I don't order people to act a certain way. That's quite rude and disrespectful.


Bro what are you talking about? A little sensitive this morning? All I said was please don't come on these boards with a bunch of negativity when the Redskins don't do exactly what you want them to do. I remember how upset you were when we passed on Brandon Taylor last draft. He had what, all of 6 tackles last year? Man, I'm really bummed we passed on that production in the secondary. Or you complained to no end when we drafted Kirk Cousins when he ended up being a fantastic pick for us. Look, you have every right to have an opinion and to voice that opinion. All I'm saying is that it might be wise to trust their judgement and not pollute these boards with a bunch of unnecessary negativity, when more likely than not, they are right. Again, you have every right to disagree with a pick just like I or anyone else might comment how we don't particularly care for a pick. But that's much different than taking, "the sky is falling," approach when we pass on Brandon freakin Taylor.

Quote:
I think long term we need to think upgrading the playmakers, but short term we need to fix our DB positons.

You could be right, maybe were trying to be the 08 Broncos as Dashing said. Just keep loading up on offensive playmakers while leaving one of the units on defense to remain one of the worst in the NFL because we constantly get bottom of the barrel FAs and late round picks to fill those positiona. All the fans will continue to complain about that one unit and take it out on the defensive coordinator but in reality it will be the front offices fault for not correctly addressing that unit and eventually if the team doesn't win playoff games because the front office doesn't make the entire team better, they will all be looking for work.


Quote:
Not saying that's going to happen but if we keep passing on secondary talent to get depth at other positions then eventually it will take its toll on the team as a whole.


For the last time, I'm not saying we SHOULD keep passing on secondary talent to load up on offense. It's just that I think we might go offensive heavy. Again, it's just a gut feeling. And if it does happen, it's most likely because they didn't want to reach badly for a defensive back. Shanny isn't dumb. He knows how weak our secondary is and if the draft board matches up with the secondary he's going to pull the trigger. All I'm saying is that it would be wise to see the results on the field before jumping down Shanny's throat on draft day for passing on Mel Kiper's best available on his big board.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Johnson I really don't think we're too far apart on what we want for this organization moving forward. Ill keep posting my thoughts on what I'd like to see them do and write blogs about it for other sites. I hope you do the same.

Also, I do NOT pay attention to Mel Kiper. I haven't paid attention to him or Todd McShay much in years.

You have a misconstrued opinion of me and who I listen to that is totally, totally wrong. I listen more to Redskins insiders and converse with them on twitter or email than I pay attention to ESPN.

It just so happens though that Mel Kiper does do a lot of the same and gives his opinions off of that knowledge.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF ...........the top S/CB's are gone and Terrance Williams happens to be sitting there on top of the BPA board
.. would be so awesome giving RG3 another Legit Weapon on the outside opposite Garcon- could cause big problems for Defenses

Then grab Rambo, Poyer, Ryan or another DB high on their board hopefully for the next 2 picks grab a DB and we really Made out..
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Johnson GREAT posts above:
Great points on Waiting for a QB and trusting your board

This FO has drafted our
1. Franchise LT
2. 2 Bookend Pass Rushers
3. Franchise QB,
4. Franchise RB

in the last three drafts, with ProBowlers from all 3 years

Shocked Dancing Shocked Dancing Shocked Dancing

They ARE getting the plan DONE


Last edited by DCRED on Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember Rg3 had that tweet with Terrance Williams about if he's available he'll be picked or something like that. Let me try to find it. It's definitely a possibility, eventhough Rg3 doesn't make the picks...


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DCRED


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Remember Rg3 had that tweet with Terrance Williams about if he's available he'll be picked or something like that. Let me try to find it. It's definitely a possibility, eventhough Rg3 doesn't make the picks...

Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Remember Rg3 had that tweet with Terrance Williams about if he's available he'll be picked or something like that. Let me try to find it. It's definitely a possibility, eventhough Rg3 doesn't make the picks...

Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray
yeah. It wouldn't be my favorite selection but I'd understand why they'd make the selection. It's good to give Rg3 what he wants if they can.

That being said, Terrance Williams is more raw than all our current wrs. I'm pretty concerned if he's selected he will be 5th or 6th on our depth chart and I'd like to get more production than that out of our 51st pick.

Now Robert Woods! He's a more complete wr, he could push Hank for the #4 spot. I just can't imagine Woods falling to the 51st pick though.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Remember Rg3 had that tweet with Terrance Williams about if he's available he'll be picked or something like that. Let me try to find it. It's definitely a possibility, eventhough Rg3 doesn't make the picks...

Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray Pray
yeah. It wouldn't be my favorite selection but I'd understand why they'd make the selection. It's good to give Rg3 what he wants if they can.

That being said, Terrance Williams is more raw than all our current wrs. I'm pretty concerned if he's selected he will be 5th or 6th on our depth chart and I'd like to get more production than that out of our 51st pick.

Now Robert Woods! He's a more complete wr, he could push Hank for the #4 spot. I just can't imagine Woods falling to the 51st pick though.
I agree with Turtle, would prefer Woods but wouldn't hate Williams. There are so many good prospects still on the board. If me menelik Watson is still there idk how we pass on him. We've got to protect our ailing QB. There are several corners and safeties I'd take as well. Kevin minter would be a nice pick too.
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