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Upon Further Review (Defensive Line)

 
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Upon Further Review (Defensive Line) Reply with quote

Previous Upon Further Review:
WOLB
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=514190

SOLB
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=513675

Defensive linemen

1) S. Lotulelei, 1-tech/5-tech, Utah- #1 player in the draft class. An absolute monster that plays with unbelievable explosion off the line. Throw out his 40 time…it doesn’t matter. He makes the most of his 2-5 yards between himself and the ball carrier. Impressive burst off the line, violent hands, and strong as a bull. Can play either 1-tech in a 1-gap scheme or 1/5-tech in 2-gap scheme. With Cam Jordan manning 5-tech. Would play 1-tech in the Saints scheme w/ Hicks moving to 3-tech. This would also open up the possibility of the Saints running some 2-gap fronts.

2) S. Richardson, 3-tech/5-tech, Missouri- Made to play the 3-tech position in a 1-gap scheme, but also played 5-tech in college. Very impressive motor. Play-maker. May not be quite the athlete that Floyd may be…but he makes up for it in technique. Also a team leader.

3) D. Jones, 3-tech/5-tech, UCLA- Explosive pass rusher that would free up the WOLB. Great hand usage. A better pass rusher than Floyd in my opinion.

4) S. Floyd, 3-tech, Florida- A solid 3-tech prospect, but incredibly over-rated. Matt Elam was clearly the most impressive prospect on their defense on the many UF games I saw last year. Has all the ingredients of an elite defensive player, but has technical issues that prevents him from being a playmaker. Incredible upside…but upside just means you haven’t done it yet.

5) K. Short, 3-tech/5-tech, Purdue- Another very impressive pass rushing prospect. Team leader. Was lined up all over the field at Purdue and was productive. Tells me that he is scheme versatile and has the IQ to make the transition to a complicated scheme under Ryan.

6) Z. Ansah, 5-tech/3-tech, BYU- I believe that he is best fit at 5-technique. He is still filling out in his 6’5” frame and there is no doubt in my mind that he will be around 285+ when it is all said and done. I don’t want my OLB being that size. But it would make for a fantastic 5-tech. With Cam Jordan currently manning the position, Ansah would likely start at 3-tech, which isn’t the best fit but is doable in spots. UNLIMITED POTENTIAL. But he currently would struggle to find a starting position on the Saints because he is a tweener. In a couple years from now he could be a beast 3-4 1-gap DE.

7) J. Hankins, 1-tech, Ohio State- I believe that he has enough athleticism to fit at 1-gap NT. I believe that Ryan wants a penetrating NT more than a plug, but I believe that Hankins could potentially fill both roles. The move would allow Hicks to slide to 3-tech…or even 5-tech. With Hicks, Hankins, and Cam Jordan, the Saints would have the DL pieces in place to play 2-gap 3-4 in spots.

Cool M. Hunt, 5-tech/3-tech, SMU- This is a pure potential pick. I believe that Hunt is best fit at 5-tech because that is where he played in college and making him switch positions may be recipe for disaster. He is practically an infant when it comes to football IQ and technique. But he has god-given size and athleticism that you can’t teach. He could potentially play 3-tech, but he would likely need to gain 15-lb to be able to anchor at his height, and again it would be a learning curve for him. With Jordan manning 5-tech, I am not sure that Hunt would find a starting position easily. Unbelievable punt/field goal blocker makes him slightly less of a risk.

9) J. Williams, 1-tech/5-tech, Alabama- I believe that he is best fit as a 2-gap 5-tech because he is limited as a pass rusher. Would play 1-tech in 1-gap scheme. But would he be a significant improvement on Bunkley? That’s questionable. If he is there in the 3rd round, he would be good value, justifying the pick, but otherwise I am not so sure that he would be a good scheme fit.

10) N. Williams, 3-tech, Samford- Why not go with a sleeper? How about a small school player, who the Saints have previously scouted a prior draftee. Last year the Saints drafted Corey White from Sanford. This year they will have the opportunity to get another Samford player late. Williams has elite size, strength, and athleticism. Why did he go to Samford? Because he didn’t start playing football until his senior year of high school. The drafting recipe for success for the Saints in the mid-to-late rounds has been take guys who are from a small school, with overblown character concerns, who were late bloomers, and HAVE ELITE POTENTIAL. Check the boxes…Williams is the perfect late round sleeper for the Saints.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are pigeonholing Hankins. He's played, and at a high level, the 0, 1, 3, and 5 techs at Ohio State in various packages. I think that although he needs work on his pass rushing moves which proper coaching he can improve upon, his versatility and ability to play a variety of roles based on who else is on the field will be very attractive to Rob Ryan. I personally have Hankins behind only Star due to his versatility.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
I think you are pigeonholing Hankins. He's played, and at a high level, the 0, 1, 3, and 5 techs at Ohio State in various packages. I think that although he needs work on his pass rushing moves which proper coaching he can improve upon, his versatility and ability to play a variety of roles based on who else is on the field will be very attractive to Rob Ryan. I personally have Hankins behind only Star due to his versatility.

I know we've disagreed a ton on Hankins but he is in no way, shape or form a 3-4 DE. He's strictly a 3-4 NT, I'd be shocked if he played anything but that at the NFL level.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
I think you are pigeonholing Hankins. He's played, and at a high level, the 0, 1, 3, and 5 techs at Ohio State in various packages. I think that although he needs work on his pass rushing moves which proper coaching he can improve upon, his versatility and ability to play a variety of roles based on who else is on the field will be very attractive to Rob Ryan. I personally have Hankins behind only Star due to his versatility.

I know we've disagreed a ton on Hankins but he is in no way, shape or form a 3-4 DE. He's strictly a 3-4 NT, I'd be shocked if he played anything but that at the NFL level.


And we are going to continue to agree to disagree. Now I won't lie and say I don't agree that he would be at he is best suited to be a 3-4 NT, but depending on what you want to do, even with limited pass rushing moves he can cause problems. Let's say the the ball is on the left hash on 1st and 10. Typically you would think you would want Hankins in the middle to stuff the run, well I'm going to think outside the box here, with the ball on the left hash, that means there is less room to the left, well you have Jordan on the left side against the left tackle, Hicks in the middle playing NT but also able to penetrate, and then you have Hankins by the RT able to set the edge as well as rush the passer from that side, and extending the play further and further to the right if they decide to run that way. You try to do that with any of the other guys in this draft, even Star, and you won't have as much success with it. Now if we didn't already have a NT/DE in Hicks and a good run stuffing DE/developing pass rusher in Jordan already, I wouldn't even consider Hankins as high to play the role I'm thinking of, but since we do have those 2, Hankins would be a great fit on our defensive line.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind Hankins as a NT in the early 3rd but he certainly isn't going o be DE for us, or any team. He's too slow, he'd be utterly useless on sweeps and tosses, as well as screens.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I wouldn't mind Hankins as a NT in the early 3rd but he certainly isn't going o be DE for us, or any team. He's too slow, he'd be utterly useless on sweeps and tosses, as well as screens.


He's too slow because he ran a slow 40 yard dash... I guess you really haven't watched a lot of Ohio State games, not saying you haven't watched any, but if you had you would've seen a player that constantly chased players down from behind, set the edge and made sweeps and tosses less effective. Also on a screen what full time DE in the NFL outside of say Mario Williams and Julius Peppers do you really expect to get out there and make a play before a linebacker/DB? Even then Hankins has shown to be a smart enough player to sniff out screens and instead of just rushing at the passer when he's played on the outside but to drop back into coverage to help against the screen.

I don't think Hankins should be a starting DE, but even in the last 1st, he could be a good starting NT, with packages at DE depending on what you want to do.

I really think sometimes we get too caught up with the combine numbers and not what they actually do on the field. Watching Hankins play you see a guy that moves ridiculously well and plays fast, he might not be fast in shorts and a t-shirt, but the dude plays football fast. He has football speed not track speed. That's also part of why I care less about Jarvis Jones and Damontre Moore's 40 times. Sure they had some bad workouts, but they flatout dominated and showed that with the pads on they are as fast as anyone that ran faster than them without pads on.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hankins may be able to play 5-tech in a 2-gap system, but he is I'm no shape or form a 3-tech. He doesn't have the pass rush ability and speed you need from that position. He would be a 1-tech in the 1-gap scheme...no question.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
Hankins may be able to play 5-tech in a 2-gap system, but he is I'm no shape or form a 3-tech. He doesn't have the pass rush ability and speed you need from that position. He would be a 1-tech in the 1-gap scheme...no question.

Thank you. In terms of him being a late first Raves... No chance, this guys stock has plummeted, he might not be a late second at this point. I think as an Ohio State fan you're highlighting his strengths an ignoring his weaknesses, not saying I don't do it too because we all do.
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