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vikingsrule
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like a good deal for the Dolphins, and if the Chiefs like Joeckel, this certainly makes sense for them to move Albert and gain a 2nd rd pick.
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chiefs82
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: |
Seems like a good deal for the Dolphins, and if the Chiefs like Joeckel, this certainly makes sense for them to move Albert and gain a 2nd rd pick. |
There's a story floating around, according to tony Pauline that majority of Chiefs coaches prefer Fisher.
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Dr. Philly
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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KC please go Luke. I'd hate him in Philly.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| chiefs82 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
Seems like a good deal for the Dolphins, and if the Chiefs like Joeckel, this certainly makes sense for them to move Albert and gain a 2nd rd pick. |
There's a story floating around, according to tony Pauline that majority of Chiefs coaches prefer Fisher. |
Did not know that. That would certainly make the draft interesting.
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chiefs82
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | chiefs82 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
Seems like a good deal for the Dolphins, and if the Chiefs like Joeckel, this certainly makes sense for them to move Albert and gain a 2nd rd pick. |
There's a story floating around, according to tony Pauline that majority of Chiefs coaches prefer Fisher. |
Did not know that. That would certainly make the draft interesting. |
| Quote: | | Sources tell me several position coaches for the Kansas City Chiefs prefer tackle Eric Fisher over Luke Joeckel.... |
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/325656523286134784
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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Location: SC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| chiefs82 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: | | chiefs82 wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
Seems like a good deal for the Dolphins, and if the Chiefs like Joeckel, this certainly makes sense for them to move Albert and gain a 2nd rd pick. |
There's a story floating around, according to tony Pauline that majority of Chiefs coaches prefer Fisher. |
Did not know that. That would certainly make the draft interesting. |
| Quote: | | Sources tell me several position coaches for the Kansas City Chiefs prefer tackle Eric Fisher over Luke Joeckel.... |
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonyPauline/status/325656523286134784 |
I prefer Fisher largely because of the upside, but Joeckel is getting unfairly dumped on in this forum, he is getting the inverse of the Chance Warmack treatment.
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TomRalph
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:39 am Post subject: |
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If the Dolphins move for Albert, this could have a serious affect on teams like Oakland and Cleveland who were hoping team's would move up and take one of the other 2 OT's.
Now the Dolphins can stay put and select the BPA as opposed to having to trade a boat load of picks to move into the Top 6.
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patman
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | patman wrote: | | Warpticon wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | So having a sure fire starter at LT for the next five years is better then a 2nd round pick who could essentially bust? I don't know too many good LT's that use minimum cap space. |
If you're a GM who doesn't trust his own ability to make draft picks, and high draft picks at that, then you should get out of the game.
Trading away valuable draft picks for the aura of stability that comes with giving big-money contracts for 'proven' players is generally not how winning teams are built. |
Maybe it's not something you should do as a habit, but once, to fill a specific need, when you already have a surplus of picks? One of the advantages of having lots of picks is that you can take chances and take advantages of such opportunities without sacrificing the future. A starting LT + 4 picks in the top 82 is doing alright. It's certainly no worse off than trading up into the top 5-7 to get one of the Ts there, which will cost a first AND second AND possibly a later pick, and the money difference at that slot and position of the draft is not all that great, either. |
What do you mean a surplus of picks? LT is not the fins only need. They traded away some valuable pieces. If I was the fins I would sign McKinnie
even if he is not a great fit as a one year deal, and then trade up slightly for Menelik Watson or stay for Armstead. They spent quite a bit of money already in FA and if they keep doing so it will handicap them in the future as Brady ages. |
The Dolphins are due to have 20+ million in cap space next off-season....and that is with Make Wallace's big cap hit/ Ireland may not be a great GM, but he is very good with the cap.
Why McKinnie....he had a few good games in the play-offs and was pretty bad the rest of the season. Albert is an upgrade and the only sure thing that can be had for a 2nd rounder.
Holes? OL and CB.....every other position group is pretty solid....so LT and 4 picks should be enough to address those holes. |
Why Mckinnie? because I thought he was the only LT out there that could start and play next year on a one year deal while Armstead or Watson developed. This way that 20 mill of supposed cap room can benefit the team. 20mill is not a lot of money, when Starks and Solai still need to be that is 1/2 of it right there Albert would probably have a hit of 7-8 mill his 2nd year - throw in the rookies and that 20 goes pretty fast.
I took issue with the statement a "surplus of picks" a surplus means more than needed.
I see the needs of the fins as another rb, A "real" TE similar to Fasano.
an upgrade to jones at safety and a tackle and a guard.
Brandon Alpert is well worth a 2nd rd pick and if you can sign him for what Long or Bushrod got, great. I was just looking at it from a position of try to maintain cap flexibility. |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | If the Dolphins move for Albert, this could have a serious affect on teams like Oakland and Cleveland who were hoping team's would move up and take one of the other 2 OT's.
Now the Dolphins can stay put and select the BPA as opposed to having to trade a boat load of picks to move into the Top 6. |
No team is going to trade up into the top 6 to draft a LT. That would be unheard of.
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TomRalph
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | If the Dolphins move for Albert, this could have a serious affect on teams like Oakland and Cleveland who were hoping team's would move up and take one of the other 2 OT's.
Now the Dolphins can stay put and select the BPA as opposed to having to trade a boat load of picks to move into the Top 6. |
No team is going to trade up into the top 6 to draft a LT. That would be unheard of. |
PHI, DET, ARI, SD, MIA, NO could all be in the market for a LT and are in the Top half of the 1st Round.
Miami also has 2 2nd's and 2 3rd's so a trade is much more tangible for MIA than most teams. Also, with LT a pretty big hole (hence trading for Albert) and the Top 3 at that position being LONG GONE before MIA pick at 12, it would make a lot of sense.
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TomRalph
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| patman wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | patman wrote: | | Warpticon wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | So having a sure fire starter at LT for the next five years is better then a 2nd round pick who could essentially bust? I don't know too many good LT's that use minimum cap space. |
If you're a GM who doesn't trust his own ability to make draft picks, and high draft picks at that, then you should get out of the game.
Trading away valuable draft picks for the aura of stability that comes with giving big-money contracts for 'proven' players is generally not how winning teams are built. |
Maybe it's not something you should do as a habit, but once, to fill a specific need, when you already have a surplus of picks? One of the advantages of having lots of picks is that you can take chances and take advantages of such opportunities without sacrificing the future. A starting LT + 4 picks in the top 82 is doing alright. It's certainly no worse off than trading up into the top 5-7 to get one of the Ts there, which will cost a first AND second AND possibly a later pick, and the money difference at that slot and position of the draft is not all that great, either. |
What do you mean a surplus of picks? LT is not the fins only need. They traded away some valuable pieces. If I was the fins I would sign McKinnie
even if he is not a great fit as a one year deal, and then trade up slightly for Menelik Watson or stay for Armstead. They spent quite a bit of money already in FA and if they keep doing so it will handicap them in the future as Brady ages. |
The Dolphins are due to have 20+ million in cap space next off-season....and that is with Make Wallace's big cap hit/ Ireland may not be a great GM, but he is very good with the cap.
Why McKinnie....he had a few good games in the play-offs and was pretty bad the rest of the season. Albert is an upgrade and the only sure thing that can be had for a 2nd rounder.
Holes? OL and CB.....every other position group is pretty solid....so LT and 4 picks should be enough to address those holes. |
Why Mckinnie? because I thought he was the only LT out there that could start and play next year on a one year deal while Armstead or Watson developed. This way that 20 mill of supposed cap room can benefit the team. 20mill is not a lot of money, when Starks and Solai still need to be that is 1/2 of it right there Albert would probably have a hit of 7-8 mill his 2nd year - throw in the rookies and that 20 goes pretty fast.
I took issue with the statement a "surplus of picks" a surplus means more than needed.
I see the needs of the fins as another rb, A "real" TE similar to Fasano.
an upgrade to jones at safety and a tackle and a guard.
Brandon Alpert is well worth a 2nd rd pick and if you can sign him for what Long or Bushrod got, great. I was just looking at it from a position of try to maintain cap flexibility. |
Reshad Jones? RESHAD JONES?!
You mean the guy who is probably the most criminally underrated Safety in the NFL and probably Top 5 at his position?
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Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 13849
Location: Somewhere in an Arizona Desert...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: |
I prefer Fisher largely because of the upside, but Joeckel is getting unfairly dumped on in this forum, he is getting the inverse of the Chance Warmack treatment. |
It's because Fisher acts like a beast on the field and Joeckel doesn't.
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simonwayne
Joined: 11 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Chiefer wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: |
I prefer Fisher largely because of the upside, but Joeckel is getting unfairly dumped on in this forum, he is getting the inverse of the Chance Warmack treatment. |
It's because Fisher acts like a beast on the field and Joeckel doesn't. |
I remember Jason Smith acting like a beast on the field 3-4 years ago. Turned out to bust. Don't think Fisher will and I do prefer him over Joeckel by a small margin but Joeckel is getting unfairly duped on this forum for whatever reason. Joeckel consistently shut down elite college pass rushers last season.
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Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| simonwayne wrote: | | Chiefer wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: |
I prefer Fisher largely because of the upside, but Joeckel is getting unfairly dumped on in this forum, he is getting the inverse of the Chance Warmack treatment. |
It's because Fisher acts like a beast on the field and Joeckel doesn't. |
I remember Jason Smith acting like a beast on the field 3-4 years ago. Turned out to bust. Don't think Fisher will and I do prefer him over Joeckel by a small margin but Joeckel is getting unfairly duped on this forum for whatever reason. Joeckel consistently shut down elite college pass rushers last season. |
Only difference is Fisher plays like a beast in run blocking.
Joeckel looked average against the elite talent in the SEC. Floyd whooped him repeatedly, and he was bad against Bama. Plus
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Deets
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 12803
Location: Red Sox Nation
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | | patman wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | patman wrote: | | Warpticon wrote: | | BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | So having a sure fire starter at LT for the next five years is better then a 2nd round pick who could essentially bust? I don't know too many good LT's that use minimum cap space. |
If you're a GM who doesn't trust his own ability to make draft picks, and high draft picks at that, then you should get out of the game.
Trading away valuable draft picks for the aura of stability that comes with giving big-money contracts for 'proven' players is generally not how winning teams are built. |
Maybe it's not something you should do as a habit, but once, to fill a specific need, when you already have a surplus of picks? One of the advantages of having lots of picks is that you can take chances and take advantages of such opportunities without sacrificing the future. A starting LT + 4 picks in the top 82 is doing alright. It's certainly no worse off than trading up into the top 5-7 to get one of the Ts there, which will cost a first AND second AND possibly a later pick, and the money difference at that slot and position of the draft is not all that great, either. |
What do you mean a surplus of picks? LT is not the fins only need. They traded away some valuable pieces. If I was the fins I would sign McKinnie
even if he is not a great fit as a one year deal, and then trade up slightly for Menelik Watson or stay for Armstead. They spent quite a bit of money already in FA and if they keep doing so it will handicap them in the future as Brady ages. |
The Dolphins are due to have 20+ million in cap space next off-season....and that is with Make Wallace's big cap hit/ Ireland may not be a great GM, but he is very good with the cap.
Why McKinnie....he had a few good games in the play-offs and was pretty bad the rest of the season. Albert is an upgrade and the only sure thing that can be had for a 2nd rounder.
Holes? OL and CB.....every other position group is pretty solid....so LT and 4 picks should be enough to address those holes. |
Why Mckinnie? because I thought he was the only LT out there that could start and play next year on a one year deal while Armstead or Watson developed. This way that 20 mill of supposed cap room can benefit the team. 20mill is not a lot of money, when Starks and Solai still need to be that is 1/2 of it right there Albert would probably have a hit of 7-8 mill his 2nd year - throw in the rookies and that 20 goes pretty fast.
I took issue with the statement a "surplus of picks" a surplus means more than needed.
I see the needs of the fins as another rb, A "real" TE similar to Fasano.
an upgrade to jones at safety and a tackle and a guard.
Brandon Alpert is well worth a 2nd rd pick and if you can sign him for what Long or Bushrod got, great. I was just looking at it from a position of try to maintain cap flexibility. |
Reshad Jones? RESHAD JONES?!
You mean the guy who is probably the most criminally underrated Safety in the NFL and probably Top 5 at his position? |
Hes not even that underrated, most people know all about him at this point. Clemons could be upgraded upon though at safety, hes solid but unspectacular.
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