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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Posts: 29673
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Packers want Ben Tate, and they are trying to set up a deal around AJ Hawk to get him. Only way I am dealing Tate is if a 2nd rounder is involved. THE RB class is weak this year.


I disagree. This is a great RB class for getting a good, productive runner from the second day on. Tate isn't worth a 2nd round pick, IMO, and treating him like he is is a surefire way to make sure no one else touches him.

Tate for Hawk straight up works for me.


Thing is, we might have to get 2 RB's via draft and UFA since Foster and Tate the only ones under contract with the team.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Packers want Ben Tate, and they are trying to set up a deal around AJ Hawk to get him. Only way I am dealing Tate is if a 2nd rounder is involved. THE RB class is weak this year.


I disagree. This is a great RB class for getting a good, productive runner from the second day on. Tate isn't worth a 2nd round pick, IMO, and treating him like he is is a surefire way to make sure no one else touches him.

Tate for Hawk straight up works for me.


Thing is, we might have to get 2 RB's via draft and UFA since Foster and Tate the only ones under contract with the team.


That's a good point. Since you're likely doing the talks, why don't you inquire about moving Tate and our non-comp 6th for Hawk and one of their RBs (DuJuan Harris or Alex Green, preferrably)?
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canyon1


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would want to add a little more to the POT, but Ben has only had one good year with us since being drafted so i say do the deal
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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again... outside looking. (Tate to GB)

(1) Arian logged ALOT of carries last season so protecting him for playoffs would be of big concern

(2) GB was ready to CUT AJ Hawk unless he took a pay cut

(3) Hawk was outplayed by Brad Jones so thoroughly that the Pack was ready to cut Hawk to use that money to re-sign Jones

(4) Tate would go from our backup ZBS tested RB with only 1/2 mil owed in compensation to their starting ZBS tested RB

(5) I'm not sure AJ beats out Sharpton to start next to Cushing

(6) Secondary 3-4 ILBs don't usually go for a heck of a lot (yes, it seemed crucial to us last season b/c we lost our primary ILB... but honestly, who noticed the play of our second ILB before Cush went down.... NOBODY)

So I would propose:
Tate (250 pts) & 4-123 (50 pts) for ILB Brad Jones (120 pts); 3-88 (150 pts) & CB / S James Nixon (5 pts). And that's being honest and generous.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jch1911 wrote:
Once again... outside looking. (Tate to GB)

(1) Arian logged ALOT of carries last season so protecting him for playoffs would be of big concern

(2) GB was ready to CUT AJ Hawk unless he took a pay cut

(3) Hawk was outplayed by Brad Jones so thoroughly that the Pack was ready to cut Hawk to use that money to re-sign Jones

(4) Tate would go from our backup ZBS tested RB with only 1/2 mil owed in compensation to their starting ZBS tested RB

(5) I'm not sure AJ beats out Sharpton to start next to Cushing

(6) Secondary 3-4 ILBs don't usually go for a heck of a lot (yes, it seemed crucial to us last season b/c we lost our primary ILB... but honestly, who noticed the play of our second ILB before Cush went down.... NOBODY)

So I would propose:
Tate (250 pts) & 4-123 (50 pts) for ILB Brad Jones (120 pts); 3-88 (150 pts) & CB / S James Nixon (5 pts). And that's being honest and generous.


To offer a counterpoint, I am positive that AJ Hawk would beat out Darryl Sharpton.
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canyon1


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been shown the light yea Ben Tate seems like he is worth more now. thanks jch1911. I say just sit on what we have and see if we can trade down in the draft.
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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canyon1 wrote:
I have been shown the light yea Ben Tate seems like he is worth more now. thanks jch1911. I say just sit on what we have and see if we can trade down in the draft.


Just a voice in the darkness.

Kenney has a point re: AJ Hawk (and I am sure there are MANY more who support his view). I think B. Jones was better, but that's just my $.02. I just also happened to peruse several Packer forums to hear what the natives have to say. 70-30 favor B. Jones over Hawk for (1) coverage ability (bad, but better than AJ); (2) ability to generate interior pressure (started as OLB); and (3) cost (no bearing on FFMD2).

I would ask the war room to put it to a vote. One thing I learned last year and from watching PD earlier in FFMD was to use the collective knowledge of your staff (which I am not a part of mind you.)

Also, remember the goals are: (1) fun; (2) realism; & (3) innovation.

See if something can be crafted that all parties like. Just note : if they acquire Tate, he becomes their bell cow running back (more valuable to Pack than us).
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jch1911 wrote:
canyon1 wrote:
I have been shown the light yea Ben Tate seems like he is worth more now. thanks jch1911. I say just sit on what we have and see if we can trade down in the draft.


Just a voice in the darkness.

Kenney has a point re: AJ Hawk (and I am sure there are MANY more who support his view). I think B. Jones was better, but that's just my $.02. I just also happened to peruse several Packer forums to hear what the natives have to say. 70-30 favor B. Jones over Hawk for (1) coverage ability (bad, but better than AJ); (2) ability to generate interior pressure (started as OLB); and (3) cost (no bearing on FFMD2).

I would ask the war room to put it to a vote. One thing I learned last year and from watching PD earlier in FFMD was to use the collective knowledge of your staff (which I am not a part of mind you.)

Also, remember the goals are: (1) fun; (2) realism; & (3) innovation.

See if something can be crafted that all parties like. Just note : if they acquire Tate, he becomes their bell cow running back (more valuable to Pack than us).


I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your Hawk v. Jones assessment. I'm just REALLY down on Sharpton as any sort of starter in the NFL. I don't see any real positives from him and get frustrated easily by the fact that Texans Nation seems willing to pretend that he's some great player hampered by injuries when he's really a never-has-been so far as the league is concerned. He's never done anything, ever, so I tend to be a little more outspoken on the idea that ILB is just as bad off as WR on this roster.
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Underwood


Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like Tate for Hawk straight up is a bad deal for us. I would do Tate and one of our thirds for Hawk and their second, however.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to let you know, maybe it impacts your planning, but the Bears are looking for a 1st, 3rd and 6th for the 20th pick.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the Bears offer, the Giants brass sent me an offer.

27th pick
89th pick
mid round pick next year

for the 19th pick

Once again I am not willing to make trades that involves a trade up unless one of the guys I want is still on the board. This wouldnt be such a bad offer.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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Location: Houston
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
kenney wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
Packers want Ben Tate, and they are trying to set up a deal around AJ Hawk to get him. Only way I am dealing Tate is if a 2nd rounder is involved. THE RB class is weak this year.


I disagree. This is a great RB class for getting a good, productive runner from the second day on. Tate isn't worth a 2nd round pick, IMO, and treating him like he is is a surefire way to make sure no one else touches him.

Tate for Hawk straight up works for me.


Thing is, we might have to get 2 RB's via draft and UFA since Foster and Tate the only ones under contract with the team.


That's a good point. Since you're likely doing the talks, why don't you inquire about moving Tate and our non-comp 6th for Hawk and one of their RBs (DuJuan Harris or Alex Green, preferrably)?



I did, they said they would be willing to add Starks and Green to the deal. I prefer Green.

The proposal would most likely be:

Green
Hawk


for Tate
6th rounder

I would do this trade. We might lose a late pick, but we could get 1 RB instead of 2 like I explained yesterday, and we could always regain another pick too.

Edit: Packers backed out the trade. Most of their staff didnt want to deal Hawk for Tate straight up.
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canyon1


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That trade i could be happy with ... only bec i thnk Ben is leaving us once he is a FA anyway so lets get something for him ... Green is someone that i think knows he will never be a bell cow and is ok with being part of a team and contributing anyway to help his team win.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I have a potential partner for a trade back also. They said they would be willing to trade up when they see who is available when we pick.

They would be willing to trade their 2nd round and swap 3rd rounders and add a 2014 6th rounder with us for our 1st rounder. I wont say the team (I'll PM you the team), but it's a team picking in the top 5.

So the proposal is:

27th overall
3rd rounder

for

their 2nd
3rd rounder
2014 6th round pick
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canyon1


Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sir that seems like a terrible trade down scenario just FYI
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