Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

How in the world did Chad Pennington go in the 1st?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Socraticsilence


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 3625
Location: Missoula, MT
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How in the world did Chad Pennington go in the 1st? Reply with quote

Selkiesxx wrote:
I'm sure his arm wasn't very powerful even before all the shoulder surgeries but has the NFL really changed that much since then?
He'd go in the first now, if anything arm strength was more overvalued when he was picked whereas now people realize that as long as a QB hits a certain baseline (which pre-injury Pennington had) accuracy and anticipation are far, far more important than having a cannon. Seriously, how often in the last 30 years was the guy with a biggest arm also the best QB-- Farve for a bit, maybe Elway for a couple of years and that's it- contrast that with Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning, Bree's and Rodgers- all average to above average in arm strength but all elite in accuracy and anticipation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Socraticsilence


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 3625
Location: Missoula, MT
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
FootballProdiG wrote:
The same reason people like Ponder and Gabbert went in the first.


/thread

Gabbert went in the first because he is big and has a rocket arm.........
Right, Blaine's a textbook case of the shorts superstar, big, huge arm, middling college career and shocker a horrible NFL QB- if you can't play in college you're not all of the sudden going to become a great QB in the NFL.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 4338
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pennington was well worth that pick.

Outside of arm strength, he had virtually everything else it takes to succeed in this league.

IIRC, he had a darn good record when he actually played. Won something like 60% of his games.
_________________
Team Stylish

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20578
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he hadn't been oft-injured, I think he would have been a terrific player. Even with the numerous injuries, he still had a nice career even if it "didn't validate" his first round selection.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robertson45


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 1017
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pennington is #1 in Career completion percentage. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

He is also currently #13 of all time in Career Passer Rating. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 82392
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballProdiG wrote:
The same reason people like Ponder and Gabbert went in the first.


/thread


Because they play a premium position?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2057
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a rocket arm should be a negative for a qb. As an NFL Quarterback all you have to do is make all the throws required to make in the league these are characterized as NFL throws. You never see QBs throw 60 yards on their knees. I think a QB with just enough arm strength is perfect ala brees, Manning, Brady. They worked on all the mental aspects because of not having rocket arms. They have the ability to throw touch passes and throw a receiver open. They also are great at reading the defense. Jay Cutler and Mike Vick are the prime reasons I don't like Qbs with rocket arms. They force passes, doing this leaves them not trusting what they see. The result is them not being able to throw receiver open. They are either trigger happy or hold the ball to long and get rattled. This is the only thing Merel Hodge said I ever agreed with.
_________________
Props to Deadpulse for the Sig:

Big Palooka wrote:
"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 4884
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttitansfan4life wrote:
Selkiesxx wrote:
Basically, what I'm asking is: if Chad were in the 2013 draft, where would he go?

With so much emphasis on arm strength and velocity, I have a hard time believing he'd still go in round one.


I'd take him over any QB in this draft.


Same, not for the Cards. He doesn't fit our system. But he would definitely be the best QB in this years draft
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 21227
Location: Daboyle on the sig/ JMG on the avy
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Socraticsilence wrote:
Jaguarfan wrote:
FootballProdiG wrote:
The same reason people like Ponder and Gabbert went in the first.


/thread

Gabbert went in the first because he is big and has a rocket arm.........
Right, Blaine's a textbook case of the shorts superstar, big, huge arm, middling college career and shocker a horrible NFL QB- if you can't play in college you're not all of the sudden going to become a great QB in the NFL.

See, you took the mentioning of Gabbert's name as an opportunity to bash him, I was really just stating that the Gabbert situation and the Pennington situation aren't anything alike......
_________________

Poz- 68 comb tackles, 1 sack 2 int
Henne- 103/173 1,222 yards 2 td 5 int 72.9 rating
#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tacos


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1170
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: How in the world did Chad Pennington go in the 1st? Reply with quote

Socraticsilence wrote:
Farve for a bit, maybe Elway for a couple of years and that's it- contrast that with Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning, Bree's and Rodgers- all average to above average in arm strength but all elite in accuracy and anticipation.
Rodgers has a cannon, but I agree with you otherwise.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Selkiesxx


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 1542
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really good answers/discussion.

For the record, I wasn't cutting Pennington down; merely just questioning how a guy with such limited arm strength could be taken in the first when we've seen guys with rocket arms but nothing else get hyped up/overvalued.
_________________
Newest Mock Draft .:. 1.11.13

@BodamEscapePlan (Twitter)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2057
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selkiesxx wrote:
Really good answers/discussion.

For the record, I wasn't cutting Pennington down; merely just questioning how a guy with such limited arm strength could be taken in the first when we've seen guys with rocket arms but nothing else get hyped up/overvalued.

Arm strength is one of the most over hyped trait you can have with a qb. You need to have enough arm strength to make every NFL throw you don't need to have a rocket arm. Remember the Brady 6 ? Which Pennington was a part of. I bet he was the only person that didn't have a stronger arm than Tom Brady.what's so impressive about the elite quarterbacks in the NFL besides reading defenses and leading teams are two traits One they have elite spatial abilities what looks covered to an average Qb looks open to them. Peyton Manning has the ability to drop a ball with touch into a two foot window. I'm using him because I'm a bronco fan. That throw against the chargers on MNF a prime example. Stokley was blanketed by a cb maybe had a foot on him and Peyton drops the ball right over the top for a TD. They also have the ability to make anticipatory throws throws were a wr isn't open but will be coming out of a break and what not. These two traits are why people say these elite qbs make players around them better. The way they anticipate where the defense will be and where the wr will be is amazing. I'd take this every time. Mike Vick IMO was the most talented quarterback ever to enter the NFL from a physical stand point talent wise. From a tangible stand point he should of been the best but wasn't because guys like Peyton either have more intangible traits. Or, the tangible traits they have are too tough to comprehend. It's easy to see Vicks rocket arm, and his elusiveness, and the speed he had coming into the NFL. You pick up a high light reel from atl you can see it within a minute. The traits I've listed are harder to see. Chad had these traits early on. It goes unnoticed.
_________________
Props to Deadpulse for the Sig:

Big Palooka wrote:
"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 21334
Location: Beat Of My Own Drum
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because he got to play with the super freak in college.

He was also extremely accurate, but his time with Moss really got himself & Marshall alot of coverage they other wise wouldn't have gotten.

Also - and wouldnt undersell this part - prior to the 200 NFL Draft, Moss publicly said Pennington was basically amazing. Considering Moss playing at the GOAT level, he had credibility.

Cant find the article, but its from dec. 1999.
_________________
http://i61.tinypic.com/2d27zep.jpg
^credit to whoever made it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robertson45


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 1017
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Because he got to play with the super freak in college.

He was also extremely accurate, but his time with Moss really got himself & Marshall alot of coverage they other wise wouldn't have gotten.

Also - and wouldnt undersell this part - prior to the 200 NFL Draft, Moss publicly said Pennington was basically amazing. Considering Moss playing at the GOAT level, he had credibility.

Cant find the article, but its from dec. 1999.


Don't forget though. Pennington only got to play one year with Moss while at Marshall.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Socraticsilence


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 3625
Location: Missoula, MT
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
I think a rocket arm should be a negative for a qb. As an NFL Quarterback all you have to do is make all the throws required to make in the league these are characterized as NFL throws. You never see QBs throw 60 yards on their knees. I think a QB with just enough arm strength is perfect ala brees, Manning, Brady. They worked on all the mental aspects because of not having rocket arms. They have the ability to throw touch passes and throw a receiver open. They also are great at reading the defense. Jay Cutler and Mike Vick are the prime reasons I don't like Qbs with rocket arms. They force passes, doing this leaves them not trusting what they see. The result is them not being able to throw receiver open. They are either trigger happy or hold the ball to long and get rattled. This is the only thing Merel Hodge said I ever agreed with.

This it's like having 4.3 speed vs being mobile, having a cannon and being absurdly fast are awesome, but most guys who have one or the other have massive flaws create by said talent-- they force things or always try and bounce outside, the QB position is at least as mental as it is physical- if you have a huge arm you almost always try and force throws- see Farve, when it works its awesome and jaw-dropping when it doesn't you just sit back and shake your head.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Draft All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group