Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Last season for Phillip Rivers in SD?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11920
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see all these people dumping on Rivers... people do understand that his two "worst seasons" as a starter would be great seasons for guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matt Schaub, right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
texans_uk


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 28858
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
I see all these people dumping on Rivers... people do understand that his two "worst seasons" as a starter would be great seasons for guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matt Schaub, right?


Where is his ring doe?
_________________
DallasInHeart wrote:
Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9738
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
I see all these people dumping on Rivers... people do understand that his two "worst seasons" as a starter would be great seasons for guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matt Schaub, right?


"great"? Nah, not really so much for Eli. Flacco and Schaub perhaps, except Flacco improves in the postseaosn, whereas Rivers has always shrunk.

Not real interested in a Schaub comparison as I don't consider him a franchise QB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11920
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
kenney wrote:
I see all these people dumping on Rivers... people do understand that his two "worst seasons" as a starter would be great seasons for guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matt Schaub, right?


"great"? Nah, not really so much for Eli. Flacco and Schaub perhaps, except Flacco improves in the postseaosn, whereas Rivers has always shrunk.

Not real interested in a Schaub comparison as I don't consider him a franchise QB


Stats-wise? Absolutely. Eli's entire career has amounted to exactly two seasons that were better than Rivers' two worst.

I'm also not real interested in who you consider a franchise QB, as that has nothing do with anything.

Eli, Flacco, and Schaub consistently put up comparable numbers in the regular season... and Rivers' worst seasons are on par with those three QBs' best. My point is that Rivers is a better QB than those three. Not who is on kethnaab's franchise QB list.

Any team willing to part ways with Rivers is making a huge mistake. There aren't ten better QBs in the league than him right now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17630
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
ugLymayNe wrote:
twslhs20 wrote:
Hope they cut him.

He would be straight nasty in Minnesota.


Thats............not something I want to think about. I was laughing when Greg went there to a QB that can't drop the ball to him with pinpoint accuracy but Rivers was the most accurate down field thrower for a stretch there. That wouldn't be good for my Packers.. Shocked


If we draft well, a guy like Rivers would to demolish defenses with the 1 on 1s hes going to see with AP in the backfield.

I'd give up 23 and our 3ed for him.

Sadly just a pipe dream


It would take more than that. Like Ponder, 23rd, and at least your 3rd. That gives San Diego a QB that can still be some kind of productive, as well as another 1st and 3rd to rebuild the team. So drop off the level of play from the QB to improve the team as a hole...
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HakeemTheDream


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 519
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares about Philip Rivers stats in comparison to Eli, Flacco, etc.? These better stats obviously aren't translating to more wins, especially in the playoffs. And maybe you should look harder at the stats, because these two seasons don't compare whatsoever.

Rivers (2007): 60.2%, 3152 yards, 21 TDs, 15 INTs, 6.85 avg

Eli (2011): 61%, 4933 yards, 29 TDs, 16 INTs, 8.38 avg

Now, I know I'm comparing these two seasons four years apart, but you said that Rivers' worst season (2007, IMO) is on par with Eli's best (2011, IMO).

But like I said, who cares about stats? If you look at each of the two's respective 2011 season (Rivers: 62.9%, 4624 yards, 27 TDs, 20 INTs, 7.95 avg; Eli's listed above) statistically, there aren't very far off. Yet, if you look back at each campaign, there is no question every single person would say Eli had a MUCH better year than Rivers. It's no question. Stats don't tell the whole picture, which is why you use them as support for your argument, not as the backbone of the argument itself. There is more to quarterbacking than stats.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lionslicer


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 1809
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rivers needs to step it up in the 4th quarter. He's like the Anti-Eli Manning.



His 4th quarter stats in general are just sad compared to Eli last year.

Rating | Comp | Att | Comp % | yards | yards per atempt | TD | INT

Rivers 67.8 79 126 62.7 807 N/A 6.4 5 8

E. MAnning 90.2 57 106 53.8 761 N/A 7.2 8 3
_________________
Kickers are people too
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11920
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HakeemTheDream wrote:
Who cares about Philip Rivers stats in comparison to Eli, Flacco, etc.? These better stats obviously aren't translating to more wins, especially in the playoffs. And maybe you should look harder at the stats, because these two seasons don't compare whatsoever.

Rivers (2007): 60.2%, 3152 yards, 21 TDs, 15 INTs, 6.85 avg

Eli (2011): 61%, 4933 yards, 29 TDs, 16 INTs, 8.38 avg

Now, I know I'm comparing these two seasons four years apart, but you said that Rivers' worst season (2007, IMO) is on par with Eli's best (2011, IMO).

But like I said, who cares about stats? If you look at each of the two's respective 2011 season (Rivers: 62.9%, 4624 yards, 27 TDs, 20 INTs, 7.95 avg; Eli's listed above) statistically, there aren't very far off. Yet, if you look back at each campaign, there is no question every single person would say Eli had a MUCH better year than Rivers. It's no question. Stats don't tell the whole picture, which is why you use them as support for your argument, not as the backbone of the argument itself. There is more to quarterbacking than stats.


I should apologize. I was having a roundtable discussion with friends about top 10 QBs in the NFL, excepting last year's first year starters for want of a larger body of work.

The discussion became heated when I insisted that both Romo and Rivers were better QBs than Flacco, Eli, and Schaub. They kept calling Rivers' last year garbage, so that's why I was so ready to bring stats into the argument.

All of that notwithstanding, it does say a lot that if last year was a "garbage" year for Rivers, he's a damned good QB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HakeemTheDream


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 519
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
I should apologize. I was having a roundtable discussion with friends about top 10 QBs in the NFL, excepting last year's first year starters for want of a larger body of work.

The discussion became heated when I insisted that both Romo and Rivers were better QBs than Flacco, Eli, and Schaub. They kept calling Rivers' last year garbage, so that's why I was so ready to bring stats into the argument.

All of that notwithstanding, it does say a lot that if last year was a "garbage" year for Rivers, he's a damned good QB.


Well there's your problem right there Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 22839
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
The first quote is not wrong. Do you realize that of the "big 3" Philip Rivers is the only quarterback from his draft class to have not won a Super Bowl? In fact the other two guys have both won 2 of them. The only other QB selected in the 1st round of the 2004 NFL Draft was J.P. Losman who was a complete bust and talked himself up prior to the draft.

During the 2004 Draft, not one QB was taken in the second round and only 1 was taken in the 3rd, Matt Schaub by the Atlanta Falcons. After Schaub in that draft there wasn't a single 'noteable' QB taken that is still even in the NFL.

Schaub is a living breathing example of the fact that sometimes, new scenery can lead to success. There are certainly questions out about Schaub right now but Rivers has been pounded for most of his career behind a suspect offensive line. Vincent Jackson leaving was the worst thing that could've happened for Rivers. Rivers doesn't have much time left to succeed in San Diego but I guarantee that he won't do it without a supporting cast. He IS NOT Ben Roethlisberger or Eli Manning and I'm sure that the Chargers, while they may not admit it, truly regret ever trading Eli Manning to NY, the only reason they did was because of a guy named Drew Brees, who they gave up on and he went on to be a superstar in New Orleans.

There is certainly risk involved in making the decision to part ways with a QB, what if he goes elsewhere and dominates? See: Drew Brees; Who do you replace him with? Geno Smith? Matt Barkley? EJ Manuel? All possibilities (though I think Smith is the least likely), but it doesn't matter who you put at QB in San Diego, if they have no line to protect them and no receivers to throw to, they will never sniff success in the playoffs, let alone get there.

There is no denying the window for Rivers is closing, he is still a good Quarterback who can succeed but he doesn't have the leadership qualities that the two men taken along with him in the 2004 NFL Draft possess. He just doesn't and that's a fact that a team has to learn to live with. He isn't a guy that is capable of carrying a team, he's proved that, but he is a guy that's capable of helping a team succeed and he HAS proved that in the playoffs and in the regular season when he's had weapons. The Chargers were very close to going to a Super Bowl when LaDanian Tomlinson was in town. Rivers is not the problem, but Rivers IS the person who will pay the ultimate price in the end unless they improve that offense immediately.

For someone who wants to lecture on right and wrong, there's a whole helluvalot of wrong the bolded portion of what you posted.

The weapons excuse is old and has been debunked by a little something called Rivers' 2010 season. That is of course unless you want to attempt to make an argument that Patrick Crayton, Brandon Manumaleuna, Seyi Ajirotutu, and Kelley Washington are the kind of "weapons" that will power a QB to success.

You argue improving the offense immediately... by making a move that sacrifices more than 1/3 of the selection in this year's draft, plus likely next year's 1st round pick for ONE PLAYER. One LOT isn't going to suddenly improve Rivers' ability to produce so substantially. Drafting Jonathan Cooper in the 1st round and Terron Armstead/Dallas Thomas either naturally in the 2nd or trading up from the 3rd does SUBSTANTIALLY more towards putting an OL capable of keeping Rivers upright than trading the moon to go up to #1 for Fisher or Joeckel.

However, getting back to the statements you've made, if you're going to make them then best be prepared to actually substantiate them with proof. Would you care to provide proof that Rivers isn't a leader (because if you turn around and try and sell Tomlinson as being one then it's obvious you haven't been actually watching games or following the Chargers closely enough)? Or that he hasn't shown he's capable of carrying his team (because he has, again refer to the 2010 season - where he was seeing a new starting lineman go down with injury with each passing week, and was throwing to the aforementioned receivers, and had a season that was in consideration of OPOY honors)?

Am I trying to contend that Rivers is presently a Top 10 QB? Hell no. Recent performance doesn't support that. But you're making arguments which are just flatly not true and when I see stuff like that, I'm going to call it out.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11920
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HakeemTheDream wrote:
kenney wrote:
I should apologize. I was having a roundtable discussion with friends about top 10 QBs in the NFL, excepting last year's first year starters for want of a larger body of work.

The discussion became heated when I insisted that both Romo and Rivers were better QBs than Flacco, Eli, and Schaub. They kept calling Rivers' last year garbage, so that's why I was so ready to bring stats into the argument.

All of that notwithstanding, it does say a lot that if last year was a "garbage" year for Rivers, he's a damned good QB.


Well there's your problem right there Wink


Nope. Championships are not a justifiable metric for quarterback competency. If the best teams rarely win the Super Bowl anymore then the same goes for the best QBs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 22839
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
HakeemTheDream wrote:
kenney wrote:
I should apologize. I was having a roundtable discussion with friends about top 10 QBs in the NFL, excepting last year's first year starters for want of a larger body of work.

The discussion became heated when I insisted that both Romo and Rivers were better QBs than Flacco, Eli, and Schaub. They kept calling Rivers' last year garbage, so that's why I was so ready to bring stats into the argument.

All of that notwithstanding, it does say a lot that if last year was a "garbage" year for Rivers, he's a damned good QB.


Well there's your problem right there Wink


Nope. Championships are not a justifiable metric for quarterback competency. If the best teams rarely win the Super Bowl anymore then the same goes for the best QBs.

Pretty much. The only place you can consistently say that it's almost always "the best" that win the Super Bowl, it's the best coaches.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 82366
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
Mudderfudder77 wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
Possibly. He was looking to transcend to the elite level in 2008 and 2009 but since then, has fallen off a cliff. While no doubt he's still an above average QB, the Chargers may be better off moving on.

Although I think he'd have put better numbers in the last two years with better receiving threats and OL. Still, Rivers isn't a guy that I see makes the guys around him better, a trait of an elite QB.



With what? I'm a Bears fan who is faced with the possibility that Cutler may be gone next season - and while Cutler is no pageant winner I have seen what it is like to go decades with Jim Miller, Erik Kramer, Cade McNown, Hank Burris, Shane Matthews, Dave Krieg, Kordell Stewart, Craig Krenzel, Rex Grossman, etc... under center.
If your QB can't win you a championship, which neither Cutler or Rivers have and I frankly don't see either if them doing so, then what's the difference? I mean sure you get teased with the winning season but if they can't win a ring, you may be better off looking for a QB who can.


Cutler almost got to the super bowl with a lackluster supporting cast on both the OL and weapons, he has a much better chance than Rivers
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9738
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
kenney wrote:
I see all these people dumping on Rivers... people do understand that his two "worst seasons" as a starter would be great seasons for guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Matt Schaub, right?


"great"? Nah, not really so much for Eli. Flacco and Schaub perhaps, except Flacco improves in the postseaosn, whereas Rivers has always shrunk.

Not real interested in a Schaub comparison as I don't consider him a franchise QB


Stats-wise? Absolutely. Eli's entire career has amounted to exactly two seasons that were better than Rivers' two worst.

I'm also not real interested in who you consider a franchise QB, as that has nothing do with anything.

Eli, Flacco, and Schaub consistently put up comparable numbers in the regular season... and Rivers' worst seasons are on par with those three QBs' best. My point is that Rivers is a better QB than those three. Not who is on kethnaab's franchise QB list.

Any team willing to part ways with Rivers is making a huge mistake. There aren't ten better QBs in the league than him right now.


well now, aren't you just a cranky one?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ElReyDeLosReyes


Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 9432
Location: University of Michigan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot, I hope they cut so he can go to a better team with actual talent at O-Line and WR.
_________________

yankee0724 wrote:
My team is based heavily off of Mourinho at Madrid.
^ FC Barcelona Fan ^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group