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Who do you draft #11?
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Who do you draft #11?
QB EJ Manuel, Florida State
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QB Matt Barkley, Southern California
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WR Tavon Austin, West Virginia
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WR Keenan Allen, California
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TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame
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T Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
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DT Sharrif Floyd, Florida
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DT Sheldon Richardson, Missourri
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DE Bjoern Werner, Florida State
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DE Datone Jones, UCLA
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LB Jarvis Jones, Georgia
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LB Barkevious Mingo, LSU
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LB Alec Ogletree, Georgia
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CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida State
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S Kenny Vacarro, Texas
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Other player, post your choice below
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Total Votes : 15

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game3525


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the issues at WR have been overblown IMO. Rivers played with worse in 2010.

The biggest issue is offensive line, follow by pass-rusher. Hell, I might even put depth at CB/SS before WR.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:

Nah, WR isn't a need and Patterson is a gigantic character risk IMO. Can't run route either.


We'll have to agree to disagree, i have no problem with that. As far as Patterson, you have a valid point there as far as character, I wouldn't say gigantic, but a risk none the less. I do agree he is more of a "Wallace" type, that is more of a straight runner.
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Neutral


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
I actually believe however, that the Chargers are a strong candidate to move up in the draft to select a LT. I'm not sure if they have the fire power for the #1 overall spot to select Joekel or Fisher, but I could see it if they feel they do.


I have some issues with that line of thinking.

Joeckel/Fisher/Johnson is only one person. As it stands right now, the Chargers need 3 starters on the offensive line, two tackles and a guard. King Dunlap is penciled into one of those starting spots, though that's primarily because he's the only OT on the roster (assuming they cut Clary). It's one thing if they trade up with the Jets, knowing that someone has a deal in place to trade up with the Titans. A comparable deal is the 2012 Jags giving the Bucs a 4th to move from #7 to #5. It's another thing if they are leapfrogging the Cards. Moving into the Browns' spot would cost our 2nd (1450 pts vs. 1085+356 = 1441 pts). That's a premium pick that could otherwise be used to land an immediate starter at OG or RT.

Obviously it would be easier to swallow if they sign one of the free agent right tackles. The Falcons cutting Clabo might be a godsend to the Chargers. That's a fit if they miss out on Winston. Ryan Harris is a possibility in the scenario where the Chargers trade up for a left tackle. He would compete with Dunlap to be the starting right tackle. It would also be a necessary signing because it's unlikely that they hand Dunlap a starting job without any competition. Otherwise, you're looking at spending another draft pick (3 total) on an OT; including a guard, and the total is 4 picks spent on the OL in one draft. I just can't see them going that overboard on one unit of the team. That also excludes any scenarios that have the Chargers giving up multiple premium picks for one left tackle. Moving up to #1 would be insane. That would cost, minimum, a 2nd and next year's 1st to move from #11. No left tackle is worth that.

I keep bringing up right tackles because the gap between importance of left and right tackles isn't as great anymore. More teams have pass rushers that play both sides, or have multiple pass rushers, or use their best pass rusher against right tackles. In our division alone, Denver lines up Von Miller on the strongside and Kansas City has Tamba Hali and Justin Houston. The Chargers can't sell out just to fill one of the OT positions.

Quote:
After the speculative report that this could be Philip Rivers' last season with the Chargers, I think if they stay at 11, they will take a WR IF Lane Johnson is already gone.


I could see that, but the only WR that makes sense is Tavon Austin. The outside receivers are set with a top three of Alexander, Floyd, and Brown. The issue with those three isn't talent or ability to produce on the field, but health. Depth could be added. Meachem is basically dead weight. But, I don't see them splurging on an outside receiver like Cordarelle Patterson, if that's what you're getting at. Doing so is basically betting against Danario Alexander staying healthy and Vincent Brown having that breakout season that looked inevitable.. before he broke his leg last preseason and went on IR. I don't see them investing so highly in a WR that could result in a logjam when there are other needs without clear solutions. Austin at least brings a versatile game that complements the other receivers on the roster.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an incredible post Nuetral and most of your views mirror my own. Offensive line will be heavily addressed with I'd say 3-4 picks. I'd love a running back to push Matthews but I don't think we have enough picks to spend one. We're likely going to the vet FA or an UDFA to fill that need.

We need depth and a starting pass rusher. Barnes is gone so our starters are Johnson and Ingram. Johnson is not going to be here forever and we need to address this area likely in 2014.

We need defensive line depth. We are in an ok position but we will spend a pick on a DE that projects to NT with a pro strength program. Babyzilla has been given his time to eat and get big so it's time to see if he can hold up for a season under NFL stress.

I love Vincent Brown and feel he can be a #1 receiver in this league. He won't ever be a blow your socks off type receiver like Jackson, but he could very well slide into a role similar to Conway, Mccardell, Toon. He is tough and will make the catch regardless of the hit. Floyd is as talented as they come and with Meachem, Royal, and Alexander filling in as injury replacements, I think this is our strongest unit.

Butler is a must resign and we will need someone next to him. Williams saves us a draft pick but we need to get him in at below market value.

Corner we are in some serious need. We can't afford to spend a first round pick here this year or next but I am not on board with Wright being conscripted into service. Please let Jammer come back for a year or two just so we aren't up river should Wright struggle or Cox be nicked with the FA injury bug.

SS has been a need since 2003 and based on what we've seen from Taylor it will continue to be a need until we find someone that can share Weddle's responsibilities.

We have a ton of holes but we have to address our offensive line first. The offense flat out stinks when Rivers is on the ground. He is far too valuable for us to abuse.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
That was an incredible post Nuetral and most of your views mirror my own. Offensive line will be heavily addressed with I'd say 3-4 picks. I'd love a running back to push Matthews but I don't think we have enough picks to spend one. We're likely going to the vet FA or an UDFA to fill that need.

We need depth and a starting pass rusher. Barnes is gone so our starters are Johnson and Ingram. Johnson is not going to be here forever and we need to address this area likely in 2014.

We need defensive line depth. We are in an ok position but we will spend a pick on a DE that projects to NT with a pro strength program. Babyzilla has been given his time to eat and get big so it's time to see if he can hold up for a season under NFL stress.

I love Vincent Brown and feel he can be a #1 receiver in this league. He won't ever be a blow your socks off type receiver like Jackson, but he could very well slide into a role similar to Conway, Mccardell, Toon. He is tough and will make the catch regardless of the hit. Floyd is as talented as they come and with Meachem, Royal, and Alexander filling in as injury replacements, I think this is our strongest unit.

Butler is a must resign and we will need someone next to him. Williams saves us a draft pick but we need to get him in at below market value.

Corner we are in some serious need. We can't afford to spend a first round pick here this year or next but I am not on board with Wright being conscripted into service. Please let Jammer come back for a year or two just so we aren't up river should Wright struggle or Cox be nicked with the FA injury bug.

SS has been a need since 2003 and based on what we've seen from Taylor it will continue to be a need until we find someone that can share Weddle's responsibilities.

We have a ton of holes but we have to address our offensive line first. The offense flat out stinks when Rivers is on the ground. He is far too valuable for us to abuse.

From an outsider's perspective we should constantly expect to hear people suggest that WR is a substantial need for us because they view "the loss of Vincent Jackson" as being the great keystone to the fall of Rivers. That's a perspective of a person who wasn't watching Rivers actually play last season.

The fact of the matter is simple, this team needs an injection of the one thing it never got in the entire AJ Smith/John Butler regime: A trench heavy draft. Now this doesn't mean every pick is made in the trenches, but consider the fact that it's almost a certainty that not every draft pick is going to bloom into a dependable starter. The common theme among the consistently good teams and the current "power" teams in the league (with few outliers, one being Pittsburgh if they do manage to bounce back) are above-average play from both of their trenches (Seattle, SF, New England, Denver, Houston, Atlanta, Baltimore, even throw in NYG and New Orleans if we discard their 2012 seasons as anomalies).

Corner is actually a position I'm less worried about, more due to tendency of scheme that we've seen from Pagano thus far, but also because the current model of NFL football has shown that if you have pass-rush (front seven) and safeties performing above the mean in terms of play, you don't need to have much more than average corners to still have a defense capable of carrying you in games where your offense may sputter from time to time (i.e. effectively you can plug-and-play CB's without much, if any, regression).

In terms of pass-rushers, I don't see one at the top of this draft that really makes me say "he's going to be special" at least not without some reservations. Dion Jordan will be a very good football player and a quality starter for many years - but if he goes in the Top 10 he's very likely never going to live up to his draft position (it would be like drafting Manny Lawson or Julian Peterson in the Top 10 - both exceedingly dependable football linebackers and fine starters, but they don't make "Top 10 pick"/game-changing impacts). There's a ton of potential in Keke Mingo, but what I fear the most isn't his ability to put on weight, to get stronger, to re-tool his technique to make him a productive speed edge-rusher... it's whether he will do that. Attitude and drive to improve is paramount among great players - you don't have to just want to be great, you have to be willing to sacrifice in some form or another to be great... I've yet to see something in Mingo that leads me to confidence that he's got that mindset to him and I fear he's got greater potential to be another Vernon Gholston type who squanders their athletic gifts.

On the OT front, I believe people get a tad too hung up on "having to have one of the best OT's/LT's in the game". It's not necessary, but you do need someone who is consistently not a liability. I realize that the argument will be made that, for example, Brady makes his OL look better than they are, but in that same token that can be said for any savvy, veteran QB who isn't being fought by his offensive scheme. Matt Light was never (watch me get railed by a visiting Pats fan for this Laughing ) a great LOT, but he was always consistently above the mean in terms of performance week-to-week. There's no LOT worth trading the farm to get in this draft - Matt Kalil was in the 2012 draft class, not this one. In the grand scheme of things (i.e. a view taken that looks at not just the immediate impact but the impact of several years to come - or even just the term of rookie contracts), plugging Jonathan Cooper and Terron Armstead into an OL has a greater positive impact than Eric Fisher alone; offensive lines are far more about chemistry among capable individuals (this is where we've suffered because guys like Clary, arguably Green, and Harris are simply not in and of themselves capable, the only appear so when playing next to superior talent (Gaither when he was motivated to play, Goff).

That's why a large scale - or even one of more than one or two slots - trade up in the 1st round just doesn't make sense to me, and I don't believe ought to to our front office. There are two truly impact positions that merit that - and a third that can be very much argued if the construct of your team is at such a point where you have the luxury of making such an addition. The first two positions are QB and elite-ceiling pass-rusher, the third (luxury) is an elite-ceiling WR. There really aren't other positions that merit making massive jumps in the draft (particularly the 1st round) unless you're literally one player away from being legitimate, perpetual Lombardi-contenders for the foreseeable future (next 3-4 years and then-some; and we've seen how often real dynasties actually come along).
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game3525


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I have being saying for a while now that the team doesn't need an elite level LT. Don't get me wrong, I will be extremely happy to land a Johnson or Fisher, but it won't be the end of the world if we didn't get them.

Good QB's can mask the "holes" on the offensive line and Rivers is still one of the best when it comes to seeing the blitz, he really isn't as o-line dependent as many people think.
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Neutral


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

game3525 wrote:
Yeah, I have being saying for a while now that the team doesn't need an elite level LT. Don't get me wrong, I will be extremely happy to land a Johnson or Fisher, but it won't be the end of the world if we didn't get them.

Good QB's can mask the "holes" on the offensive line and Rivers is still one of the best when it comes to seeing the blitz, he really isn't as o-line dependent as many people think.


We also don't know for sure if the staff feels that they must have a prototypical LT prospect. Having Joe D as the OL coach makes the Chargers a real wildcard in how they address the line. When he was in Kansas City, they drafted left guard Branden Albert and turned him into a quality left tackle. And then when he was in Buffalo, they drafted left guard Cordy Glenn and did the same thing. They even slid Levitre over in 2011 when Bell missed the season with an injury. That could be the Chargers' plan, to address left tackle with a converted guard. But, Joe D was working under Gailey in both places (Chiefs OC and Bills HC). We don't know if McCoy, Whisenhunt, and Telesco think that's a good idea. They could use that threat in training camp though. If they took Pugh or Long in the second, they could give them a look at left tackle in camp to create some competition.
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutral wrote:
game3525 wrote:
Yeah, I have being saying for a while now that the team doesn't need an elite level LT. Don't get me wrong, I will be extremely happy to land a Johnson or Fisher, but it won't be the end of the world if we didn't get them.

Good QB's can mask the "holes" on the offensive line and Rivers is still one of the best when it comes to seeing the blitz, he really isn't as o-line dependent as many people think.


We also don't know for sure if the staff feels that they must have a prototypical LT prospect. Having Joe D as the OL coach makes the Chargers a real wildcard in how they address the line. When he was in Kansas City, they drafted left guard Branden Albert and turned him into a quality left tackle. And then when he was in Buffalo, they drafted left guard Cordy Glenn and did the same thing. They even slid Levitre over in 2011 when Bell missed the season with an injury. That could be the Chargers' plan, to address left tackle with a converted guard. But, Joe D was working under Gailey in both places (Chiefs OC and Bills HC). We don't know if McCoy, Whisenhunt, and Telesco think that's a good idea. They could use that threat in training camp though. If they took Pugh or Long in the second, they could give them a look at left tackle in camp to create some competition.


Cordy Glenn was always a tackle, anybody that watched him could see that. Albert was only a guard because a stud name Eugene Monroe came along. I don't know if there's anybody in the draft that fits the mold.
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