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Geno Smith Possibility?
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JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
If you pick Geno the same fan base will be crying in 3 yrs.. about why we wasted a #2 pick on a mediocre player.


But I will be happy now, thats you're problem you think Long-term, live in the now!


This why this team is at the bottom of the league right now geNO is not going to change the culture of this franchise. This team has been making bad decision after bad decision sooner or later it has to stop. If the talent in the depth of this team could possibly hide geNO's flaws until he developed then yeah draft him, but did you see the talent that was on that football field last year it was down right despicable as well as the depth. Great players makes talent around them better and geNO is not a great player so he may come here put up big numbers with a up start receiving corp but throwing the ball around the field for numbers doesn't equate to W's. I want W's not numbers. The way to get W's build the depth and upgrade the defense.
Spot on!! I was actually about to put up a big post about exactly why I am so against Geno at #2, but you managed to hit the major underlying point in a much smaller amount of words.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
If you pick Geno the same fan base will be crying in 3 yrs.. about why we wasted a #2 pick on a mediocre player.


But I will be happy now, thats you're problem you think Long-term, live in the now!


This why this team is at the bottom of the league right now geNO is not going to change the culture of this franchise. This team has been making bad decision after bad decision sooner or later it has to stop. If the talent in the depth of this team could possibly hide geNO's flaws until he developed then yeah draft him, but did you see the talent that was on that football field last year it was down right despicable as well as the depth. Great players makes talent around them better and geNO is not a great player so he may come here put up big numbers with a up start receiving corp but throwing the ball around the field for numbers doesn't equate to W's. I want W's not numbers. The way to get W's build the depth and upgrade the defense.
Drafting Geno doesn't preclude you from building the defense. This isn't Geno vs. defense, it's Geno vs. 1 defensive player. If Geno puts up big numbers, he will do more to get us wins than one good pass rusher will.
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KhanYouDigIt


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm being told defense is more important than a QB?
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KhanYouDigIt


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had the 6th ranked defense in 2011, we won 5 games. You know why? Because the play from the QB position sucked.

5 of the top 10 ranked defenses this past season didn't make the playoffs.


Washington 28th ranked defense.
Colts 26th
New England 25th
Atlanta 24th
Super Bowl Champs 17th
Minnesota 16th


^ 5 of those 6 made the playoffs with below average defenses because they had good play from the QB position minus the Vikings who rode AP's legs to the playoffs.


If you don't have a QB, you're not going to win in this league, plain and simple.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhanYouDigIt wrote:
We had the 6th ranked defense in 2011, we won 5 games. You know why? Because the play from the QB position sucked.

5 of the top 10 ranked defenses this past season didn't make the playoffs.


Washington 28th ranked defense.
Colts 26th
New England 25th
Atlanta 24th
Super Bowl Champs 17th
Minnesota 16th


^ 5 of those 6 made the playoffs with below average defenses because they had good play from the QB position minus the Vikings who rode AP's legs to the playoffs.


If you don't have a QB, you're not going to win in this league, plain and simple.


Didnt we know that already? Defense wins championships is more of a cliche than anything now
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what your saying is with the talent on this team Geno is going to get this team to the playoffs when clearly you saw in the Texans game where Henne was flawless he still couldn't get the W.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
So what your saying is with the talent on this team Geno is going to get this team to the playoffs when clearly you saw in the Texans game where Henne was flawless he still couldn't get the W.
Let me ask...

So what your saying is with the talent on this team one defensive player is going to get this team to the playoff?
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To further that, it seems as though the argument against Geno right now somehow precludes the idea of drafting someone on defense in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th rounds, and somehow precludes the idea of signing defensive free agents.

Drafting Geno will not prevent this team from drafting good defensive players, signing good defensive players or having a good defense, just as drafting a great defensive player will not guarantee we have a good defense (just look at the 2011 Vikings with Jared Allen challenging the sack record).

If we're going to make this Geno vs defense, it's just not a fair discussion. It's Geno vs one defensive player. As long as Geno is a good player, he will do more for a team than one defensive player will do. Andy Dalton adds more wins to the Bengals than even J.J. Watt would, and Dalton is a QB some think isn't good enough.

I have no problem with people disliking Geno, I've argued against him enough to understand why people may not want him. But the way it's being argued just doesn't make sense. If you don't think Geno is good enough, that is the only argument you need, and the only argument that makes sense, at least as far as I can think of.

Even the argument to wait until next year doesn't make too much sense. If we end up outside of the first two-three picks, we probably aren't getting a QB that's a better prospect than Geno. Are we that confident in the eneptitude of coaching and the players that we have/will draft to think we will be as bad as we are now? If we take the "draft defense" approach, add a pass rusher, a LB and a couple corners, safety, is it unreasonable to think that the defense, with Bradley running things, wouldn't be better than last year? Is it unreasonable to think that the receivers wouldn't continue to grow under Jerry Sullivan? Is it unreasonable to think a healthy MJD wouldn't be able to make the run game better? That we couldn't protect Gabbert better with Rackley back and a new RT? That Gabbert couldn't be ever so slightly better? If enough of those things happen, we could find ourselves picking outside of the top 5 and miss out on Bridgewater, Fales and Manziel (and that's if they look as good as they did last year as prospects. If they don't, its no better than drafting Geno now). The absolute worst thing that could possibly happen to this team is if Geno turns into RGIII, Luck, Russell Wilson, Cam, Dalton, and we turn out just good enough to miss out on the QBs next year.


No, Geno probably won't take this team to the playoffs year one. But I can promise you that a pass rusher won't either, even if they're JJ Watt's sophomore year good. The only way this team possibly could make a one year turnaround is if the QB position gets drastically better, we protect the QB well (add a RT, maybe more) and address the defense. But I'm pretty certain we aren't looking at a one year turnaround anyway. We're looking for a sustainable team. If that includes Geno, I understand. If it doesn't, I understand as well, as long as the logic is sound.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its funny how Jaguars fans look at the game of football. Around the league nobody outside of Jacksonville would pick Geno with the 2nd pick. If we pass on him the Cards need a QB and they are currently in talks to trade for Palmer I bet they pass on him the Raiders need a QB regardless of the Flynn trade I bet they pass on him. Nobody in the league is scrambling to move up the draft board for this kid, I don't think he will be picked until the 8th pick if the Bills stay put only reason why the Bills would pick him is because they don't want to go to training camp with Tavaris Jackson at the helm.

You say well great QB play says a lot about turning the tide of the team? How would you grade Cam Newton's play over the past 2 years? Lets go as far as a veteran How would you grade Tony Romo's play over the past two years? Neither one has made the playoffs I think as far as QB play they've played pretty decent you know what they're flaw is TEAM ball and TALENT. Team work makes the dream work only people that put on teal are excited about Geno's ability its amusing thats why over the past 6 years Jaguars football has been the punch line in NFL circles and the team is not respected because they have jumped at the first thing that looks appealing. You what if he turns out to be RGIII, Luck, Newton or Dalton? What if he turns out to be Vince Young, Jimmy Clausen, or Brady Quinn.. The difference between Geno in those guys is when the analyst analyzed RGIII and Luck it was a resounding YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH EITHER ONE. Who has came out and stamped Geno as a can't miss product? Is pass rush going to make this team a playoff contender? No it is not I said nothing of the sort I said the talent level of this team is complete and utter trash.

Your talking about un-drafted free agents REALLY come on guy the draft is a crap shoot with in itself and you are relying on un-drafted free agents and the rest of your picks the Jags need to find at least 2 studs out this draft the talent on this team at DE, CB, OL, LB scares me if the team isn't built QB is non existent I agree with you QB is the most important position on the ball field but if he is looking through the hole in the stadium the whole game and the defense can't stop Lakeshores Pop Warner team it ain't going to matter either.

And No drafting Geno does not stop you from bolstering your Defense with other picks. But I don't feel comfortable wasting a pick on a possibly Mid to late 1st round talent. When you have the ability to pick a stud for your defensive system with the number 2 pick regardless of how weak the draft is it is deep but my out look is you have the the ideal situation to draft the guy who will put the stamp on your D for the next 10 years, oppose to a guy I feel you could be drafting your 3rd QB in a 3-4 yr spand in the 1st round again.


Last edited by DuvalsKing on Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one team has the 2nd pick.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
Its funny how Jaguars fans look at the game of football. Around the league nobody outside of Jacksonville would pick Geno with the 2nd pick.
And you know this how?

Quote:
If we pass on him the Cards need a QB and they are currently in talks to trade for Palmer I bet they pass on him the Raiders need a QB regardless of the Flynn trade I bet they pass on him. Nobody in the league is scrambling to move up the draft board for this kid, I don't think he will be picked until the 8th pick if the Bills stay put only reason why the Bills would pick him is because they don't want to go to training camp with Tavaris Jackson at the helm.
Or maybe these teams are getting these players because its a foregone conclusion that we draft Geno and they need a backup plan. None of this stuff started happening until after we came out as incredibly interested in Geno. Are you gonna tell me that the Falcons were stupid because they drafted Matt Ryan when he was a flawed prospect and other teams that needed QBs passed on him?

Quote:
You say well great QB play says a lot about turning the tide of the team? How would you grade Cam Newton's play over the past 2 years? Lets go as far as a veteran How would you grade Tony Romo's play over the past two years? Neither one has made the playoffs I think as far as QB play they've played pretty decent you know what they're flaw is TEAM ball and TALENT.
Explain to me how much better the Panthers would be if they drafted JJ Watt instead of Cam Newton. Do they make the playoffs? JJ Watt just had the best season for a defensive player in NFL history and the Panthers would have been worse with him than they are with Cam.

No one has ever stated that simply a QB changes everything. Quit using that straw man. Of course we need talent everywhere. Drafting a QB doesn't stop you from drafting players at other positions. Yes, we need talent everywhere. That includes at QB.

Let's just put this together. Let's say we draft Geno, a LB/LEO and a CB in the first three rounds. Let's say they all pan out. That team is better than a team that drafts studs at DE/LEO, LB and CB in the first three rounds, and it isn't even debatable.

Your only reasonable argument is that Geno isn't good enough. If you want to argue that, do it. All this other stuff is a misguided argument that means nothing..

Quote:
Team work makes the dream work only people that put on teal are excited about Geno's ability its amusing thats why over the past 6 years Jaguars football has been the punch line in NFL circles and the team is not respected because they have jumped at the first thing that looks appealing.
Yes. Because Gabbert, Alualu, Harvey and etc. we're the "first thing that looked appealing."

The reason we are the laughing stock we are is because we don't have a QB, and don't have other good players. It has nothing to do with what the fans like myself (who didn't even like Gabbert when he was drafted) think. Come on. That's a plain ridiculous assertion.

Quote:
You what if he turns out to be RGIII, Luck, Newton or Dalton? What if he turns out to be Vince Young, Jimmy Clausen, or Brady Quinn.. The difference between Geno in those guys is when the analyst analyzed RGIII and Luck it was a resounding YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH EITHER ONE. Who has came out and stamped Geno as a can't miss product?
And who stamped Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Andy Dalton, Aaron Rodgers as can't miss prospects? The only one you could say people claimed as can't miss was Peyton and still there were a lot of people who liked Ryan Leaf more.

Quote:
Is pass rush going to make this team a playoff contender? No it is not I said nothing of the sort I said the talent level of this team is complete and utter trash.
Cool story. I don't see how that means anything. We will add more talent to the team whether we draft Geno or someone else. If we can't put talent around Geno, we won't be able to put talent around whoever else we draft at #2 either.

Quote:
Your talking about un-drafted free agents REALLY come on guy the draft is a crap shoot with in itself and you are relying on un-drafted free agents
No one said a single word about undrafted free agents.

Quote:
and the rest of your picks the Jags need to find at least 2 studs out this draft the talent on this team at DE, CB, OL, LB scares me if the team isn't built QB is non existent I agree with you QB is the most important position on the ball field but if he is looking through the hole in the stadium the whole game and the defense can't stop Lakeshores Pop Warner team it ain't going to matter either.
Where does drafting Geno stop us from hitting on these other players? Please, explain to me how drafting a defensive player with the first pick gives us 2-3 studs on defense. Those players will be drafted with other picks, just as they would if we drafted a player not named Geno with #2.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
Its funny how Jaguars fans look at the game of football. Around the league nobody outside of Jacksonville would pick Geno with the 2nd pick.
And you know this how?

Quote:
If we pass on him the Cards need a QB and they are currently in talks to trade for Palmer I bet they pass on him the Raiders need a QB regardless of the Flynn trade I bet they pass on him. Nobody in the league is scrambling to move up the draft board for this kid, I don't think he will be picked until the 8th pick if the Bills stay put only reason why the Bills would pick him is because they don't want to go to training camp with Tavaris Jackson at the helm.
Or maybe these teams are getting these players because its a foregone conclusion that we draft Geno and they need a backup plan. None of this stuff started happening until after we came out as incredibly interested in Geno. Are you gonna tell me that the Falcons were stupid because they drafted Matt Ryan when he was a flawed prospect and other teams that needed QBs passed on him?

Quote:
You say well great QB play says a lot about turning the tide of the team? How would you grade Cam Newton's play over the past 2 years? Lets go as far as a veteran How would you grade Tony Romo's play over the past two years? Neither one has made the playoffs I think as far as QB play they've played pretty decent you know what they're flaw is TEAM ball and TALENT.
Explain to me how much better the Panthers would be if they drafted JJ Watt instead of Cam Newton. Do they make the playoffs? JJ Watt just had the best season for a defensive player in NFL history and the Panthers would have been worse with him than they are with Cam.

No one has ever stated that simply a QB changes everything. Quit using that straw man. Of course we need talent everywhere. Drafting a QB doesn't stop you from drafting players at other positions. Yes, we need talent everywhere. That includes at QB.

Let's just put this together. Let's say we draft Geno, a LB/LEO and a CB in the first three rounds. Let's say they all pan out. That team is better than a team that drafts studs at DE/LEO, LB and CB in the first three rounds, and it isn't even debatable.

Your only reasonable argument is that Geno isn't good enough. If you want to argue that, do it. All this other stuff is a misguided argument that means nothing..

Quote:
Team work makes the dream work only people that put on teal are excited about Geno's ability its amusing thats why over the past 6 years Jaguars football has been the punch line in NFL circles and the team is not respected because they have jumped at the first thing that looks appealing.
Yes. Because Gabbert, Alualu, Harvey and etc. we're the "first thing that looked appealing."

The reason we are the laughing stock we are is because we don't have a QB, and don't have other good players. It has nothing to do with what the fans like myself (who didn't even like Gabbert when he was drafted) think. Come on. That's a plain ridiculous assertion.

Quote:
You what if he turns out to be RGIII, Luck, Newton or Dalton? What if he turns out to be Vince Young, Jimmy Clausen, or Brady Quinn.. The difference between Geno in those guys is when the analyst analyzed RGIII and Luck it was a resounding YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH EITHER ONE. Who has came out and stamped Geno as a can't miss product?
And who stamped Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Andy Dalton, Aaron Rodgers as can't miss prospects? The only one you could say people claimed as can't miss was Peyton and still there were a lot of people who liked Ryan Leaf more.

Quote:
Is pass rush going to make this team a playoff contender? No it is not I said nothing of the sort I said the talent level of this team is complete and utter trash.
Cool story. I don't see how that means anything. We will add more talent to the team whether we draft Geno or someone else. If we can't put talent around Geno, we won't be able to put talent around whoever else we draft at #2 either.

Quote:
Your talking about un-drafted free agents REALLY come on guy the draft is a crap shoot with in itself and you are relying on un-drafted free agents
No one said a single word about undrafted free agents.

Quote:
and the rest of your picks the Jags need to find at least 2 studs out this draft the talent on this team at DE, CB, OL, LB scares me if the team isn't built QB is non existent I agree with you QB is the most important position on the ball field but if he is looking through the hole in the stadium the whole game and the defense can't stop Lakeshores Pop Warner team it ain't going to matter either.
Where does drafting Geno stop us from hitting on these other players? Please, explain to me how drafting a defensive player with the first pick gives us 2-3 studs on defense. Those players will be drafted with other picks, just as they would if we drafted a player not named Geno with #2.


This just in Jags are trying to move out of the 2nd spot they can't be that in love with Geno.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused where anything I said there suggested he was a player we were completely sold on. I'm fairly certain that I said over and over again that I understand the perceived flaws with him, and I've also argued why he isn't going to be the pick.

So..uhh.... Explain?
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Last edited by iPwn on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
So what your saying is with the talent on this team Geno is going to get this team to the playoffs when clearly you saw in the Texans game where Henne was flawless he still couldn't get the W.


Geno, with CSIII and Bl4ckmon would give us a very strong 3 headed monster, if we can get someone line Marcus Lattimore to perform up to his potential we would be very strong on that side, I dont see us being able to set up the defense so quickly
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
If we pass on him the Cards need a QB and they are currently in talks to trade for Palmer I bet they pass on him the Raiders need a QB regardless of the Flynn trade I bet they pass on him.


This is real simple. There are at least 5 teams in the top 10 that could be seen as QB needy, and all of them but the Jags are below another possible QB-needy team in the draft order. On the other hand, there is only one Geno, and while Geno is more of a Matt Ryan level prospect than a Luck/RG3 one, there is still just one of him, and frankly a big drop-off right now after him. Regardless of how teams feel about Geno, even if they think he could be their answer at QB, it's not a foregone conclusion that he will drop to where they can draft him, and they don't have the luxury of just leaving the position unaddressed until the draft, since if they don't get Geno, the decent FA picks won't be around either.
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