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New Considerations at 20?
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Mudderfudder77


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 1841
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.



Impossible. ChicagoAl has already posted PFW's analysis. Try again saboteur.
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.





I can only hope that hes gone, i want no part of Austin at 20.



Same I only hope that he is gone.. Cooper 1st Choice if hes not there Arthur Jones
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.





I can only hope that hes gone, i want no part of Austin at 20.



Same I only hope that he is gone.. Cooper 1st Choice if hes not there Arthur Jones
Barrett Jones?
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CBears019


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Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
ak06max wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.





I can only hope that hes gone, i want no part of Austin at 20.



Same I only hope that he is gone.. Cooper 1st Choice if hes not there Arthur Jones
Barrett Jones?


I think he means Arthur Brown.
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bears2308


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
DaMike wrote:
ak06max wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.





I can only hope that hes gone, i want no part of Austin at 20.



Same I only hope that he is gone.. Cooper 1st Choice if hes not there Arthur Jones
Barrett Jones?


I think he means Arthur Brown.


Both. Combined. Emery can pull it off.
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IronMike84


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon Sandcastle at #20 plz.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm..... Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:

Anyone drafting Austin has to be aware that he cannot be a real WR just a Gimmick Guy. There is no way to justify such a high pick for a guy of his size. These are drafted third round and lower.


Stop saying this because just about nobody shares this opinion with you. Its an opinion based on no facts.
Look at the way these guys are used. They aren't real WRs. Hester can do this kind of thing.


He can do more than a "real" WR. Thats the whole point.
If he had as good a rookie year as Johnny Knox I would publicly say it was not a bad choice.
But we drafted Johnny in the fifth round.

We do not need to spend that high a choice on a Gimmick Guy which is what he is to me whether it meets your approval or not. If we took him in the third I would think it worth the speculation and effort to use him to keep him healthy. That will not be easy.


Im starting to think you dont know what gimmick means. Explain to me how he is just a gimmick guy.
He will run special types of plays not your ordinary WR plays since he would not be likely to take the pounding of play after play. He will be limited to special packages which can take advantage of his speed and which must be structured to protect him. He won't be running across the middle or called on to go up against safeties and LBs primed to knock the crap out of him. He has to stay away from contact if he wants to survive.

Why do you think guys like him are historically almost never drafted in the first round? Are all the GMs listening to me and my irrational ideas?
How bout a CB who is the exact same size as Tavon Austin but is also one of the top 5 CBs in the league, does he hold up to the pounding? How bout the PitBull that is Tim Jennings, how's he doing? Also I have to agree w/ what somebody else said, Austin's ability to minimize contact is Barry Sanders-esque. You aren't going to see him take blow up shots, b/c of that ability, and w/ Austin's speed, COD, quickness, it really doesn't matter how fast the opposing defense is, Austin is faster.
What CB weighs 173 #? Tim Jennings weighs AT LEAST 10 more than Austin and was not drafted in the first round. He was drafted where guys that small should be and generally are drafted, not in the first round. He was drafted where he was because of his speed which was faster than Austin.

Jenning has also had a very up and down career in the pros and was not considered worth keeping by the Colts so he was not worth the second round pick used for him. He was also benched in 2011 because he was so crappy.

Barry Sanders was also at least 20 pounds heavier than Austin.

Please show me a successful NFL player at >175 lbs and show me one who was drafted in the first round. None of those proposed as equivalents have been, in fact, equivalents.
Ever hear of a guy by the name of Brandon Flowers? 5'8" 175, very early 2nd round pick of the chiefs, consensus top 5 CB in this league. So the 2d round is now the FIRST round. The fact you think Tim Jennings is faster than Austin (who ran a 4.2 at the combine compared to Jennings 4.4) just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Tim Jennings ran a 4.32 at the Combine, Trevon Austin ran a 4.34. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about wrt this. In case you are having trouble with these numbers, that means Jennings was FASTER than Austin at the Combine. And if you think that 10 lbs makes that big of difference, I really have nothing else to say. Ten pounds generally does not make a difference when you are 300 lbs. but when you are under 175 it can make a big difference. Since it is about 3% of body mass for the former and about 6% for the latter. Why do you think the bigger man is almost always taken over the smaller when everything else is about the same? Austin is going to be a 1st round pick, and he's going to be a playmaker. A firefly flashes brightly for a brief period.

BTW, you mentioned Emery's trade for Marshall and scoring. This was only the 2nd year that Marshall scored 10+ TDs in a season, and he averages, you guessed it, 7 TDs per year, the same as Harvin. Marshall has had two double digit years, and how many has Harvin had? Oh, yeah - NONE. Marshall had over 1000 EVERY YEAR, Harvin has NEVER had a thousand. Marshall averaged 1108 yds per yr, Harvin 812. (Not quite 100 yds more than Johnny Knox.) Marshall was drafted in the FOURTH round. What I am concerned about is VALUE. Marshall, Knox gave great value for their picks. Harvin not that much and Austin will be much closer to Harvin than Marshall. Now there are other problems w/ Harvin that makes the trade questionable, but his ability to put the ball in the endzone is not really one of them.
No it isn't just the relatively low number of tds it is overall production. It just does not justify a 1st round pick.
You are of course referring to the "official" times which are only partially electronically timed and have been proven to be very, very bad in the past, and this year was no exception. Steve Williams supposed ran an official 4.4, he was hand timed by virtually everybody around 4.24, was shown on simulcam to be faster than 4 DBs supposedly faster than him and at the top w/ 4.3s, yet his official time was 4.4. Austin was handtimed at 4.25, shown on simulcam to be step for step w/ Marquise Goodwin at 4.28 "officially" and his "official time was 4.34. Here's a little factoid for you, none of the teams, not a single one, will use that "official" 40 time in their evaluation, they all will use their own handtimes. So you can bet Steve Williams and Tavon Austin will be evaluated as 4.2 players. Better yet put on the tape, you'll see Austin against Texas Tech take a 2 yard swing pass 94 yards, and pulling away from everybody in less than 4 strides. By the time he hit the 25 yard line nobody is w/in 15 yards of him. Questioning Austin's speed is borderline stupid.

Oh and the idiot test I'm referring to w/ Ogletree has nothin to do w/ Calc. Its about a player who has character questions already, getting himself arrested the week before the combine.
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mteward


Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Posts: 130
Location: Newcastle
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really starting to think that Warmack might be there for us at 20. Taking a couple of things into account like the lesser value of the position and also the fact that there seems to be a lot of love recently for Cooper perhaps because he is more versatile.

I'm really getting my hopes up early for him or Cooper.
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
DABEARSLCF04 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.





I can only hope that hes gone, i want no part of Austin at 20.



Same I only hope that he is gone.. Cooper 1st Choice if hes not there Arthur Jones



Yes Brown Typo
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Leon Sandcastle at #20 plz.


The buzz being heard from more than a handful of front offices is that Sandcastle just may be a late riser, quietly moving up a few team's big boards.

The kid has no real character concerns, and a strong showing at the combine has really raised his stock in this year's draft.

The one concern teams DO have is that they may not get a helmet to fit on his head with that afro. Be that as it may, between new helmet technology and the protection afforded by the extra padding on his head, Sandcastle is considered to be a minimal risk for concussions.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Pompei speculated that there would be some trade activity between the Bears and 49ers on draft day.


He said 34 and 61

Or 31, 3rd and 5th.
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Roadrunner


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sure like the second scenario. It is just speculation, but it is a very realistic possibility though.

It is at the bottom of the page at the link below for anyone that wants to locate it quickly.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-04-01/sports/chi-bears-askdan-20130401_1_brian-urlacher-bears-salary-cap/3
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei speculated that there would be some trade activity between the Bears and 49ers on draft day.


He said 34 and 61

Or 31, 3rd and 5th.


If you offered me 34 & 61 for 20 I would do that today.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Dan Pompei speculated that there would be some trade activity between the Bears and 49ers on draft day.


He said 34 and 61

Or 31, 3rd and 5th.


If you offered me 34 & 61 for 20 I would do that today.


If they offered 31, 74 and 174 I would also do that today as well.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
There is almost No chance that Austin hits 20 so this debate is pointless.

We can all wait and see when he is playing for another team next season.
To all those GMs out there. PLEASE draft Austin, I'm begging you. He is going to be the greatest player of our lifetime. Come on #1 pick, how can you pass on such a sure-fire super star? You gotta snap him up, after all he is a revolutionary player who will be HoF after the first game.

Don't let his size concern you, he is Superman and indestructible. A player we have NEVER seen the like of.
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