Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Anti-Kenny Vaccaro movement
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
steelers75


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 767
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: draft Reply with quote

i agree with 43. while i like vacarro i dont at 17. this safety class is deep so i think we can find one later to sit on the bench for 2-3 years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1620
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
_________________

Go Noles!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 60748
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.

I don't see Vaccaro as a possible elite player, I think a few of the wrs could be elite. Patterson and Allen
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
óDays until: NFL Draft 23; Training camp 99
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1620
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.

I don't see Vaccaro as a possible elite player, I think a few of the wrs could be elite. Patterson and Allen


I disagree. I see it the other way around. There's no WR this year that impresses me all that much. I think Vaccaro has a better chance of being an elite player than Patterson, Allen, or Austin.
_________________

Go Noles!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6333
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vacarro's a better FS prospect than Barron was last year. I don't think that makes him an elite prospect, but IMO it does make him extremely valuable in the NFL's eyes.

I don't think those that dislike him need to worry about it. He won't last until 17.
_________________



"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 3042
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and is a strong physical tackler.


I would agree...with the caveat that he has to actually make contact, which he doesn't do quite often. I challenge anyone who has watched him to play to tell me he doesn't completely whiff when going in for tackles on a regular basis. He takes poor angles frequently. The best defense for this would be that the rest of his defense sucked and was clueless, so maybe he just was just trying to do too much. I don't see that, though, when I watch him. I see a guy who doesn't have top notch speed or instincts who is usually a step or two late and misses.

Quote:
He isnt a ball hawk


But he supposedly has a great understanding of route progressions? It's hard to disprove that statement, but this is a guy who was more as an in the box defender and in man on slot guys. I could post some highlight videos and highlight plays he bites on or where he's out of position. Again, the rest of the defense sucked, but Vacarro was responsible for allowing a lot of those big plays, or at least could have prevented them. He was AWFUL against Oklahoma, so I won't bother posting that. Here are some plays against K-state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwv2OIrF6yI
.30 mark, bites on playfake. Almost recovers to make the play, but instead it's a nice completion.
2:35 takes a poor angle and misses his tackle.
2:50 gets sucked in on a run play. Again, poor angle. Not all on him, but as the playside safety he doesn't keep any leverage on the play.
4:20 outside run by Klein. Vaccaro is the single high safety, last line of defense. Get's taken out by a back and does nothing to force the play back inside.
5:50 Terrible angle and gives Klein and easy cutback lane. Gains another 10 yards because of it.
6:11 Completely bites and then stands there paralyzed as Klein completes a deep pass where he was supposed to be. Game clincher.
8:15 This one is just an ugly reaction. Completely bites on the run fake and goes in the complete opposite direction of the play.

OSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5BZ6f0FzM
.05 in, whiffs on a tackle.
10 in, poor angle and again whiffs.
1:35 neutralized by a WR on a run.
1:50 horrible angle and reaction to the dump off. WR washes him right out of the play and a nice gain.
2:00 blocked by a WR easily.
2:18 Good job diagnosing the WR screen, horrible job playing it. Is washed out of the play by the blocking WR, good gain.
2:25 He gets sucked in on a screen with the rest of the defense, luckily the back drops the ball.
3:50 another WR screen where he commits and gets washed out by the blocker.
4:05 Not sure if this man. He probably was supposed to have help over the top, but he misses his jam and gives the guy a clean inside route. Throws his arms up in disgust before the WR is in the endzone. Regardless of whether there was supposed to be help, he screwed up his jam. His reaction bothers me more. This was a guy who, at least from my view, liked to run his mouth to the media and throw people under the bus. Just my view.
5:00 Poor technique playing the run. Not the primary culprit for the long run, but it's a play he could have prevented. Gets himself turned and plays pattycake with the blocker. Poor form/technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrJd-vbajAU
.01 Dominated by a WR on the screen.
20 Bites in on a playfake and allows a nice gain on the screen.
.45 Lousy jam and lets his guy back inside while getting spun around. Nice pass completion.
1:02 Gets blown back with the rest of his defense.
1:58 Again blocked and sealed off completely by a WR on the screen.
2:05 Just lost on the run fake.

I'll stop there. Very few special plays. Against OSU, a lot of sloppy play...especially against the run. Not much zone coverage to speak of in coverage. Usually manned up, where he's decent at mirroring WR's. The main issues he had were technique on his jam, but that's normal and can be coached up.

Quote:
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.


Patterson has the physical tools and can do special things for a man his size. From a physical standpoint, he's a top tier prospect. What scares me with him is the stuff about him struggling to learn the offense. Patterson could be a special player. Even if Vaccaro doesn't bust entirely, I doubt he'll be a difference maker.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 60748
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.

I don't see Vaccaro as a possible elite player, I think a few of the wrs could be elite. Patterson and Allen


I disagree. I see it the other way around. There's no WR this year that impresses me all that much. I think Vaccaro has a better chance of being an elite player than Patterson, Allen, or Austin.
why? What does Vaccaro do that's special?
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
óDays until: NFL Draft 23; Training camp 99
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1620
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.

I don't see Vaccaro as a possible elite player, I think a few of the wrs could be elite. Patterson and Allen


I disagree. I see it the other way around. There's no WR this year that impresses me all that much. I think Vaccaro has a better chance of being an elite player than Patterson, Allen, or Austin.
why? What does Vaccaro do that's special?


Kenny Vaccaro, FS, Texas
6'1, 218lbs

CBSSports:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664330/kenny-vaccaro
Vaccaro earned a starting job as a sophomore, registering 56 tackles, four tackles for loss and continued his big play ways by posting an interception, a forced fumble and another blocked kick. He also earned the team's special teams MVP award. Vaccaro emerged as arguably the best safety in the Big 12 a season ago, earning First Team all-conference honors by the league's coaches with 82 tackles, eight tackles for loss, two sacks, eight passes broken up and two interceptions. Perhaps not the ball-hawk of former Texas DBs but is a steady, physical defender.

FFToolbox:
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=3455
Great hands, really goes after the ball when in coverage. Near-receiver like skills in his ability to quickly turn, locate the ball, and come down with the turnover. Not a consistently reliable tackler. Looks to make the big, jarring hit rather than wrap up at times. Vaccaro is very willing in run support and should transition nicely when he learns to avoid some of his collision tackles.

National Football Post:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40188
Kenny Vaccaro is a highly impressive athlete and is one of the most complete safety prospects to enter the NFL the past several years. His elite speed and explosiveness allows him to make plays all over the field vs. the run and pass, and his agility and smoothness allow him to play under control despite playing at such a high speed. His most impressive effort this season came against West Virginia, when he went man-to-man for much of the night vs. the explosive and elusive Tavon Austin and more than held his own. He is outstanding on run plays outside the box, as he takes excellent angles to the boundary and is able to stay square to his target and finish effectively in space. His ability to slide down and play nickel back only adds to his value at the next level, as coverage ability is paramount for safeties in today's NFL which is so often based on spreading the field and exposing isolated match-ups. I fully expect Vaccaro to hear his name called on day one of the draft, as he is clearly one of the top defensive backs in this class.


Game tape vs Oklahoma St.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5BZ6f0FzM

Game tape vs Kansas St.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwv2OIrF6yI

My Thoughts:
Does not shy away from contact. Good run supporter, can lay the wood, although at times will miss a big hit, allowing a big play. Has the speed and athletism to cover a WR man to man, although will get burnt at times when looking at the backfield too long. At times becomes flat footed in zone. Is good in pursuit, taking good angles to the ball carrier. Effective blitzer. Not a ball hawk, but has shown the ability to jump slant routes, and has good receiver like hands. Good prospect.

What does Patterson, Allen, and Austin do thats so special? This years WR crop is not that good. None of them have #1 WR potential, IMO.
_________________

Go Noles!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KJtheWicked


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1620
Location: Norrisville, Pa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But like treat said, He won't be there at 17 anyways.
_________________

Go Noles!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 3042
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are other places to question the WR prospects. I'm not looking at Austin or Allen in the 1st, personally. I think you underestimate Patteron's physical skills.

If Vaccaro is such a great athlete, where are all the big plays? Honestly, how many game changing plays did he make in his career? Momentum swingers? I could live with that if he was a guy I could count on as an eraser on the backend, but he's not that, either. He allows a lot of big runs and passes with his sloppiness.

Big hitters from the safety spot aren't rare, and it's not as if I see Vaccaro (who seems to come late on most pass plays, anyway) as a real enforcer like Clark. I see bust to mediocrity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SteelProven


Moderator
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11658
Location: Ramstein, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJtheWicked wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
KJtheWicked wrote:
I'm just curious why Vaccaro would be a bad pick at 17, but some of these WRs mentioned in other threads wouldn't be? I would take Vaccaro over any WR in this draft, and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
there is no way I'd take Vaccaro over Patterson.

I don't see Vaccaro as a possible elite player, I think a few of the wrs could be elite. Patterson and Allen


I disagree. I see it the other way around. There's no WR this year that impresses me all that much. I think Vaccaro has a better chance of being an elite player than Patterson, Allen, or Austin.
why? What does Vaccaro do that's special?


Kenny Vaccaro, FS, Texas
6'1, 218lbs

CBSSports:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664330/kenny-vaccaro
Vaccaro earned a starting job as a sophomore, registering 56 tackles, four tackles for loss and continued his big play ways by posting an interception, a forced fumble and another blocked kick. He also earned the team's special teams MVP award. Vaccaro emerged as arguably the best safety in the Big 12 a season ago, earning First Team all-conference honors by the league's coaches with 82 tackles, eight tackles for loss, two sacks, eight passes broken up and two interceptions. Perhaps not the ball-hawk of former Texas DBs but is a steady, physical defender.

FFToolbox:
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=3455
Great hands, really goes after the ball when in coverage. Near-receiver like skills in his ability to quickly turn, locate the ball, and come down with the turnover. Not a consistently reliable tackler. Looks to make the big, jarring hit rather than wrap up at times. Vaccaro is very willing in run support and should transition nicely when he learns to avoid some of his collision tackles.

National Football Post:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40188
Kenny Vaccaro is a highly impressive athlete and is one of the most complete safety prospects to enter the NFL the past several years. His elite speed and explosiveness allows him to make plays all over the field vs. the run and pass, and his agility and smoothness allow him to play under control despite playing at such a high speed. His most impressive effort this season came against West Virginia, when he went man-to-man for much of the night vs. the explosive and elusive Tavon Austin and more than held his own. He is outstanding on run plays outside the box, as he takes excellent angles to the boundary and is able to stay square to his target and finish effectively in space. His ability to slide down and play nickel back only adds to his value at the next level, as coverage ability is paramount for safeties in today's NFL which is so often based on spreading the field and exposing isolated match-ups. I fully expect Vaccaro to hear his name called on day one of the draft, as he is clearly one of the top defensive backs in this class.


Game tape vs Oklahoma St.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5BZ6f0FzM

Game tape vs Kansas St.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwv2OIrF6yI

My Thoughts:
Does not shy away from contact. Good run supporter, can lay the wood, although at times will miss a big hit, allowing a big play. Has the speed and athletism to cover a WR man to man, although will get burnt at times when looking at the backfield too long. At times becomes flat footed in zone. Is good in pursuit, taking good angles to the ball carrier. Effective blitzer. Not a ball hawk, but has shown the ability to jump slant routes, and has good receiver like hands. Good prospect.

What does Patterson, Allen, and Austin do thats so special? This years WR crop is not that good. None of them have #1 WR potential, IMO.


Patterson is a big play waiting to happen all the time.

Vaccaro is blah to me. All I've seen from him is a player making tackles 5+ yds down field. I've tried warming up to the fact that Vaccaro could be the pick, but I can't.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Pittsburgh Steelers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group