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Raiders Awarded a 6th Rd Compensatory Pick
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Bah, it was Brisiel's bloated contract that ruined the soup. No biggie I guess though.

From what I've read it was Wheeler's play and contract incentives that killed the other expected 6th for us.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
Location: Saturn
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thinking of compensatory picks, anyone else think this why we are signing so many players to 1-year deals (they do well and go for bigger contracts next year, e.g. Wheeler, we could well earn a few extra draft picks) - good long term plan
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10900
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooohhhhh... Shocked

Can it be that Reggie is alot smarter than people wanna give him credit for?

If he signs these guys to small deals and other teams sign our free agents to large deals, we will get the better of the comp picks.

If that is done on purpose then it is a stroke of genius. We can simply re-sign our own guys at the end of the season with no negative comp pick implications. We keep the better players and cut the ones that do not perform. And we still get the comp picks to boot.

I like having a real GM for a change. Laughing
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Ooooohhhhh... Shocked

Can it be that Reggie is alot smarter than people wanna give him credit for?

If he signs these guys to small deals and other teams sign our free agents to large deals, we will get the better of the comp picks.

If that is done on purpose then it is a stroke of genius. We can simply re-sign our own guys at the end of the season with no negative comp pick implications. We keep the better players and cut the ones that do not perform. And we still get the comp picks to boot.

I like having a real GM for a change. Laughing



Like we did with Wheeler? Oh wait.
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Bah, it was Brisiel's bloated contract that ruined the soup. No biggie I guess though.


Him and Tollefson's useless arse screwed us. Not that we were going to get a high comp pick without them, but we would have done better than a 6.
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Bah, it was Brisiel's bloated contract that ruined the soup. No biggie I guess though.

From what I've read it was Wheeler's play and contract incentives that killed the other expected 6th for us.


Makes sense.

Friggin' top secret comp pick formula. NFL always gotta complicate things.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Ooooohhhhh... Shocked

Can it be that Reggie is alot smarter than people wanna give him credit for?

If he signs these guys to small deals and other teams sign our free agents to large deals, we will get the better of the comp picks.

If that is done on purpose then it is a stroke of genius. We can simply re-sign our own guys at the end of the season with no negative comp pick implications. We keep the better players and cut the ones that do not perform. And we still get the comp picks to boot.

I like having a real GM for a change. Laughing



Like we did with Wheeler? Oh wait.


You don't think Wheeler will work out for us in the comp pick world? No, we couldn't resign him as we might have wanted. Only because he got paid well beyond his worth. Which is a major factor in factoring comp picks. As long as we don't sign more than we lose, him and Bryant will both net us picks.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 14483
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Ooooohhhhh... Shocked

Can it be that Reggie is alot smarter than people wanna give him credit for?

If he signs these guys to small deals and other teams sign our free agents to large deals, we will get the better of the comp picks.

If that is done on purpose then it is a stroke of genius. We can simply re-sign our own guys at the end of the season with no negative comp pick implications. We keep the better players and cut the ones that do not perform. And we still get the comp picks to boot.

I like having a real GM for a change. Laughing



Like we did with Wheeler? Oh wait.


You don't think Wheeler will work out for us in the comp pick world? No, we couldn't resign him as we might have wanted. Only because he got paid well beyond his worth. Which is a major factor in factoring comp picks. As long as we don't sign more than we lose, him and Bryant will both net us picks.


Signed (4)

Vance Walker - 1 year/2M (incentives:250k)
Pat Sims - 1 year/1.5M

Jason Hunter - 1 year/840k
Nick Roach - 4 years/13M
Kaluka Maiava - 3 years/6M


Burnett was cut by the Dolphins so he isn't a factor. Hunter's contract is likely too low to qualify in the comp pick formula.

Lost (6, at least)

Desmond Bryant - 5 years/34M
Philip Wheeler - 5 years/26M
Brandon Myers - 4 years/14.25M
Mike Goodson - 3 years/6.9M
Shane Lechler - 3 years/5.5M
Matt Shaughnessy - 1 year/1M (incentives: 750k)

Mike Mitchell - Undisclosed


Myers cancels out Roach.
Goodson cancels out Maiava.
Lechler cancels out Walker.
Shaughnessy cancels out Sims.

I'd guess a 4th and a 5th for Bryant and Wheeler right now.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5774
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Raidin wrote:
DOCLEW 28 wrote:
Ooooohhhhh... Shocked

Can it be that Reggie is alot smarter than people wanna give him credit for?

If he signs these guys to small deals and other teams sign our free agents to large deals, we will get the better of the comp picks.

If that is done on purpose then it is a stroke of genius. We can simply re-sign our own guys at the end of the season with no negative comp pick implications. We keep the better players and cut the ones that do not perform. And we still get the comp picks to boot.

I like having a real GM for a change. Laughing



Like we did with Wheeler? Oh wait.


You don't think Wheeler will work out for us in the comp pick world? No, we couldn't resign him as we might have wanted. Only because he got paid well beyond his worth. Which is a major factor in factoring comp picks. As long as we don't sign more than we lose, him and Bryant will both net us picks.


Signed (4)

Vance Walker - 1 year/2M (incentives:250k)
Pat Sims - 1 year/1.5M

Jason Hunter - 1 year/840k
Nick Roach - 4 years/13M
Kaluka Maiava - 3 years/6M


Burnett was cut by the Dolphins so he isn't a factor. Hunter's contract is likely too low to qualify in the comp pick formula.

Lost (6, at least)

Desmond Bryant - 5 years/34M
Philip Wheeler - 5 years/26M
Brandon Myers - 4 years/14.25M
Mike Goodson - 3 years/6.9M
Shane Lechler - 3 years/5.5M
Matt Shaughnessy - 1 year/1M (incentives: 750k)

Mike Mitchell - Undisclosed


Myers cancels out Roach.
Goodson cancels out Maiava.
Lechler cancels out Walker.
Shaughnessy cancels out Sims.

I'd guess a 4th and a 5th for Bryant and Wheeler right now.


It's way too early to start calculating. Incentives and other factors can change things during the league year.

Suffice it to say, Wheeler and Bryant's contracts seem large enough and in excess of any we have signed that they are likely to get us picks. Nothing we sign should be able to offset those.

And we have signed 6:
Sims, Maiava, Burnett, Roach, Hunter, Walker.

And lost 7:
Bryant, Wheeler, Goodson, Myers, Lechler, Shaughnessey, Mitchell.

Here's to hoping Leinart, Seymour, Giordano, Gaither, Carlisle, Spencer sign somewhere and we resign Hagan, Hanson, Carter.
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:

Suffice it to say, Wheeler and Bryant's contracts seem large enough and in excess of any we have signed that they are likely to get us picks. Nothing we sign should be able to offset those.


If we end up signing more qualifying FAs than we've lost, we won't get anything, even if none of our signings come close to what Bryant and Wheeler got.

Burnett was cut.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
holyghost wrote:

Suffice it to say, Wheeler and Bryant's contracts seem large enough and in excess of any we have signed that they are likely to get us picks. Nothing we sign should be able to offset those.


If we end up signing more qualifying FAs than we've lost, we won't get anything, even if none of our signings come close to what Bryant and Wheeler got.

Burnett was cut.


Well that's what I was saying in the first place, previous posts. All we have to have happen is not outsigning our losses.

And that's sweet - I did not realize Burnett was a cut.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:

And that's sweet - I did not realize Burnett was a cut.


Yeah, he was cut to make room for Wheeler. It all came full circle. Thank you Miami.
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will take a comp pick haul of a 4th and a 5th every day of the week.

Let's just hope all of our losses start and some make the Pro Bowl. Wink
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only issue with signing players to 1 year deals is it catches up with a bad team.

A guy like Vance Walker could come to Oakland, play well and be like Bryant next year and Oakland won't match that contract.

Also, if the team sucks (as it appears they will) then will these 1 year players want to come back. Walker played for the Falcons. He's about to see how the other half lives. Think he will want to stick around? Who knows.

Renting players scares me.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
My only issue with signing players to 1 year deals is it catches up with a bad team.

A guy like Vance Walker could come to Oakland, play well and be like Bryant next year and Oakland won't match that contract.

Also, if the team sucks (as it appears they will) then will these 1 year players want to come back. Walker played for the Falcons. He's about to see how the other half lives. Think he will want to stick around? Who knows.

Renting players scares me.


Maybe. And if Walker is good we will want to keep him, much like Wheeler. But like it was pointed out above, if Walker bolts for a better contract we get the comp pick off it. More ammo to build through the draft, and if you're a GM who likes to build through the draft it's win win. The guys stays, you get a good player at a good price. He leaves, you get more draft to build with and players who are 4 years cheap through the draft.

The only key to this is that McKenzie is managing his pickups and making certain they do not outweigh his losses. We really have no idea if he is actually doing this as a matter of method.
Another key is having a good solid system in place that gets the most out of players but doesn't rely on individual excellence to perform adequately as a unit. Then you can plug guys in and make them look better than they are. Based on the end of last year it looks like that's exactly what we are trying to create here.

It's a gamble. But one that pays off on both ends.
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