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General View- What's Going on in Baltimore Answer

 
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Conquest8089


Joined: 15 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: General View- What's Going on in Baltimore Answer Reply with quote

"Player Development". A UDFA, Dannell Ellerbe became a focal point of a Super Bowl Defense. Two UFA signings that got 0 ESPN coverage started at Corner. Two 5th Rounders (Arthur Jones & Pernell McPHee & a 7th DeAngelo Tyson played 85 Snaps in the SB. A rookie 2nd Rounder started at LG.

After years of mediocre play albeit with high energy, Paul Kruger played a stretch of football that got him a $ 40 million dollars deal on the open market. Ellerbe got $ 35 Million. Now without these players, fans quickly shift to- "Who Will we sign in Free Agency." UFA is not about replacing production, it's about supplementing a core roster.

For years, the strength of the Ravens has been developing their own players. When a player like Ellerbe leaves for bigtime money, it's worth considering a UFA Addition- but could the replacement be on the Roster?

I keep hearing- What is Ed Reed leaves? Look- Ed's a 35 year old FS that has a year or two left. Let me be frank, I have NO misconceptions. Next year isn't about REPEATING!! If it were, the team would've mortgaged the future to keep Ellerbe & Kruger.

It's about building the core of players that will again get the team over the top. I'd be thrilled to see Christian Thompson be the longterm solution at FS. Maybe he's not the guy, but signing a marginal UFA isn't the solution either.

Taking a micro approach, I believe the tackle position should be targeted for an upgrade in the draft. I think protecting Joe as the team shifts towards more of an offensive emphasis is obviously important. I'd also look to add more playmakers to the receiving corps. Don't over pay, get value (DHB).

Overall,- Building a Winner isn't easy. Keeping it together is even more difficult. It's about trusting in the process. So even if the team struggles next year with inexperience at Safety, I will continue to Trust in the Process.
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santiagomn8


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this in almost every aspect except for not making Ed Reed a huge priority. I think he brings in X factor that we need and that's the emotional leader factor. Last year look what we did for ray Lewis they played their butts off for him and the players hold Reed to that same regard especially with Lewis gone. He also still 1 of the top FS in the leauge even tho he has lost a step and not as good as a tackler anymore. But overall I'm not against the youth movement Deonte Thompson, Doss, Streeter really excite me and they are now going to get more play time so lets hope they develop nicely. Just have to trust that Ozzie has a plan and we continue our trend of being a winning franchise.
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ravens_rool28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that scares me about Ed is the fact that we won the SB last year. Is he really going to play as hard as last year (or years prior) with the way his body is giving out on him? I could see him lose some of his fire at this point, and while he can still bring something to the table I wouldn't hate to see him walk. I'd like to maybe try to sign him for a year to somewhat 'groom' a replacement, but I'm not sure how realistic that possibility is.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hardest thing for me to do, as a HUGE Ed Reed fan, as someone who's only NFL jersey is a #20 jersey, it's so hard for me to say that he's not worth bringing back under his current salary, but that's just reality of it.

He's 35 years old, he can't tackle, he's lost a step and his gambles are starting to hurt him more than reward him, and he's super injury prone (even though he doesn't sit out games).

At this point, it's smart of the Ravens to let him get overpaid by a team like the Texans and we just move on, or Ed comes back for really cheap and we draft another safety to take his place and gradually weave Ed out of the plan.
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Baltimore Pride


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really in the larger picture losing Reed might not be the worst thing, especially if he is indeed seeking 6 million a year, its just the fact that it will blow seeing him play elsewhere.

Like you said he is 35 years old and his play has slipped without question, the only major thing he would bring at this point is his veteran/leadership appeal but at some point we would inevitably be forced to more on from him, so regardless someone else would need to step up and be a leader on our defense, pretty much if not now then when? Ideally it would be nice to have Reed another year or two so he could at least bridge the gap to whoever steps up as our defensive leader but either way we'll be fine.

The team overall should be fine, I expect Flacco to easily assume to role as team leader, he should have all the confidence in the world at this point. As for defense hopefully someone steps up, we draft someone or find a budget veteran FA option (Charles Woodson or Adrian Wilson come to mind) who can fill the void left by Ray and possibly Reed.

We'll be fine with or without Reed.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm starting to see the overall direction of the team more and more.

They went all out last year to win a Superbowl because they knew that was Ray's last chance, Birk's last chance, and now they are starting completely over with ONLY the key pieces (Flacco, Rice, Suggs, Ngata, Webb, Smith) and obviously the really young guys at the centerfold. Anyone who is viewed as expendable or old can be replaced and is being replaced (although I'm still not sure why Vonta Leach is here).

We won the Superbowl, and now we can rebuild while the team is still relatively young and try to gear up a couple years down the road for another title run when Flacco is in his like 7th or 8th year instead of mortgaging the future to sign guys like Ellerbe and Kruger who would've demanded high contracts (obviously).
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chris Canty signing was tremendous. Added a guy with tremendous intangibles & an instant leader for a young Defensive Line. Throughout Ngata's time in Baltimore, he's been a dominant player but not the leader. That was Ray's role.

With so many young & talented Defensive Linemen- Arthur Jones, Pernell McPhee, DeAngelo Tyson, Terrence Cody- I feel Canty provides an older Veteran that will show these guys how to practice & prepare to succeed in Pros.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I think I'm starting to see the overall direction of the team more and more.

They went all out last year to win a Superbowl because they knew that was Ray's last chance, Birk's last chance, and now they are starting completely over with ONLY the key pieces (Flacco, Rice, Suggs, Ngata, Webb, Smith) and obviously the really young guys at the centerfold. Anyone who is viewed as expendable or old can be replaced and is being replaced (although I'm still not sure why Vonta Leach is here).

We won the Superbowl, and now we can rebuild while the team is still relatively young and try to gear up a couple years down the road for another title run when Flacco is in his like 7th or 8th year instead of mortgaging the future to sign guys like Ellerbe and Kruger who would've demanded high contracts (obviously).


Personally, I highly doubt it's impacted by the SB win. It's definitely not a "Hey, we won, we can take a down year" type of thing.

It's just a matter of lots of contracts expiring at the same time, which coincides to losing two older guys to retirement and a big time contract to our franchise QB. It's the perfect storm of a "critical" off-season for the Ravens.

It helps soothe the losses because we won, but we'd be making the same moves anyhow if we didn't. Like you said, we aren't going to mortgage our future for a better chance in the short-term. Ozzie doesn't play that way (anymore) -- he learned his lesson after the last SB win.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I think I'm starting to see the overall direction of the team more and more.

They went all out last year to win a Superbowl because they knew that was Ray's last chance, Birk's last chance, and now they are starting completely over with ONLY the key pieces (Flacco, Rice, Suggs, Ngata, Webb, Smith) and obviously the really young guys at the centerfold. Anyone who is viewed as expendable or old can be replaced and is being replaced (although I'm still not sure why Vonta Leach is here).

We won the Superbowl, and now we can rebuild while the team is still relatively young and try to gear up a couple years down the road for another title run when Flacco is in his like 7th or 8th year instead of mortgaging the future to sign guys like Ellerbe and Kruger who would've demanded high contracts (obviously).


Personally, I highly doubt it's impacted by the SB win. It's definitely not a "Hey, we won, we can take a down year" type of thing.

It's just a matter of lots of contracts expiring at the same time, which coincides to losing two older guys to retirement and a big time contract to our franchise QB. It's the perfect storm of a "critical" off-season for the Ravens.

It helps soothe the losses because we won, but we'd be making the same moves anyhow if we didn't. Like you said, we aren't going to mortgage our future for a better chance in the short-term. Ozzie doesn't play that way (anymore) -- he learned his lesson after the last SB win.


Agreed. More or less the Superbowl victory just kind of helped the timing because of the age of some of the players, you know what I mean?

I just feel like now we can focus on having that full youth movement and getting right back on the horse in the next few years for another SB run.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
The Chris Canty signing was tremendous. Added a guy with tremendous intangibles & an instant leader for a young Defensive Line. Throughout Ngata's time in Baltimore, he's been a dominant player but not the leader. That was Ray's role.

With so many young & talented Defensive Linemen- Arthur Jones, Pernell McPhee, DeAngelo Tyson, Terrence Cody- I feel Canty provides an older Veteran that will show these guys how to practice & prepare to succeed in Pros.


I like the Canty signing as well, but not so much for the "leader" aspect. I like the signing because it was a bargain, experienced veteran who fits what we needed -- a guy who can get penetration. He's certainly no JJ Watt, but he's shown he can be a 3-4 sack a year guy. I think he can be another Corey Redding for us which was critical in 2011 IMO.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Conquest8089 wrote:
The Chris Canty signing was tremendous. Added a guy with tremendous intangibles & an instant leader for a young Defensive Line. Throughout Ngata's time in Baltimore, he's been a dominant player but not the leader. That was Ray's role.

With so many young & talented Defensive Linemen- Arthur Jones, Pernell McPhee, DeAngelo Tyson, Terrence Cody- I feel Canty provides an older Veteran that will show these guys how to practice & prepare to succeed in Pros.


I like the Canty signing as well, but not so much for the "leader" aspect. I like the signing because it was a bargain, experienced veteran who fits what we needed -- a guy who can get penetration. He's certainly no JJ Watt, but he's shown he can be a 3-4 sack a year guy. I think he can be another Corey Redding for us which was critical in 2011 IMO.


My most recent memory of Canty is being relieved when he left the game where the Giants lost to the Ravens through injury. Up to that point, he was the one guy on the Giants' D-line who was a legitimate threat to disrupt the Ravens' offense.

He's a good player, and can definitely be a starter in Baltimore for a couple of years. If he can stay healthy, that is.

If Ngata can get healthy too, then I think the Ravens have the makings of a very strong D-line next year. Art Jones improved a lot through the season, McPhee was injured for most of it but came back and made an impact in the AFC Championship Game. Tyson and Hall are decent depth guys too.

Just not sure what they'll do with Cody and Kemo.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens_rool28 wrote:
The thing that scares me about Ed is the fact that we won the SB last year. Is he really going to play as hard as last year (or years prior) with the way his body is giving out on him? I could see him lose some of his fire at this point, and while he can still bring something to the table I wouldn't hate to see him walk. I'd like to maybe try to sign him for a year to somewhat 'groom' a replacement, but I'm not sure how realistic that possibility is.


This is another big reason why I'd like to see Ed back. It's very likely a safety is taken very early in the draft and whoever that is, preferably Elam, Cyprien, or Shamarko, would greatly benefit from getting to play as well as learn beside him for their first year or two. Then, once Ed is gone, they could potentially move over to FS after having the privilege of being taught by the GOAT.
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Division, most project the Bengals to win it in 2013. Even while overhauling the roster, the Ravens will still compete. That's the benefit of having a Franchise Caliber Quarterback.

I make this Assumption: The Ravens will not Repeat in 2013.

With that out of the way, you evaluate personnel based on the given players ability to contribute to Super Bowl Runs in 2014, but more logically in the 2015-2017 window.

Terrell Suggs will turn 31 in October... The question is does he return to All Pro form when healthy during the 33-35 stage of his career?

Ngata's 29. I expect him to still be playing at a Pro Bowl Caliber level in years 31-33. But it's this process of identifying players, making a determination "Is X part of the next Super Bowl Victory, and addressing all Personnel decisions from that vantage point.

Clearly both Kruger & Ellerbe could have been pieces to the puzzle. But the hope is that not spending that money in 2013, you are forced to utilize those resources in 2014 to lock up Upshaw, but more logically Arthur Jones & Pernell McPhee. While neither will command the type of money Ellerbe & Kruger did, they're valuable players.

Also- Not overpaying for Kruger & Ellerbe gives you flexibility in UFA in the coming years. Hypothetically if Left Tackle isn't fixed via the 2013 Draft & Oher departs after 2013, you sign a Jared Veldheer to fix the problem.
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