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NextBigThing
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 19993
Location: Party Like Gatsby
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 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Donut wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | ^I would much prefer to just re-sign Edleman and totally ignore Welker, tbh. Focus FA efforts on defense, so we can draft a wr.  |
Uh, what?
| NextBigThing wrote: | | I dont like the idea of letting Welker walk just so we can try and replace him with someone else who does a poor imitation of Welker. |
Does not compute. |
Edleman is very different than Welker. He actually has decent straight line speed. He can do the little out & udnerneath routes we would want WW to do when we want to run them, but he can do far more.
I think you're confused because I am moreso talking about my desire for an overall offensive philosophy which relies very little on slot receiver production. Hence, Welker is not needed, and Edelman can do the slot routes on the -rare- occasion we decide to go there.
IF we are not going to change philosophy, though, and intend to still be sot machine dependent...that makes me more open to a WW return. But I loooooathe the idea of carrying on with the same offensive identity that we have had the past 3 years. |
But Danny Amendola is considered a poor welker imitation? Amendola is better at getting behind DBs than Welker and Edelman... So how is Amendola a poor version of Welker but Edelman isn't? Amendola can do all Edelman can and way more. |
This. |
Actually i haven't seen THAT much of Amendola. My understanding of him, though - and what seems like a league wide consensus - is he is a slot guy. Edleman can do more than that. I think DA > JE, but not by as much as a contract would likely prove.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 21705
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| NextBigThing wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Donut wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | NextBigThing wrote: | | ^I would much prefer to just re-sign Edleman and totally ignore Welker, tbh. Focus FA efforts on defense, so we can draft a wr. |
Uh, what?
| NextBigThing wrote: | | I dont like the idea of letting Welker walk just so we can try and replace him with someone else who does a poor imitation of Welker. |
Does not compute. |
Edleman is very different than Welker. He actually has decent straight line speed. He can do the little out & udnerneath routes we would want WW to do when we want to run them, but he can do far more.
I think you're confused because I am moreso talking about my desire for an overall offensive philosophy which relies very little on slot receiver production. Hence, Welker is not needed, and Edelman can do the slot routes on the -rare- occasion we decide to go there.
IF we are not going to change philosophy, though, and intend to still be sot machine dependent...that makes me more open to a WW return. But I loooooathe the idea of carrying on with the same offensive identity that we have had the past 3 years. |
But Danny Amendola is considered a poor welker imitation? Amendola is better at getting behind DBs than Welker and Edelman... So how is Amendola a poor version of Welker but Edelman isn't? Amendola can do all Edelman can and way more. |
This. |
Actually i haven't seen THAT much of Amendola. My understanding of him, though - and what seems like a league wide consensus - is he is a slot guy. Edleman can do more than that. I think DA > JE, but not by as much as a contract would likely prove. |
Your understanding of him is incorrect. He has been used in the slot a lot. That doesn't make him "a slot guy" though this was a really nice play in the slot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKO2x6ayFyg |
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Deadpulse
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 7734
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with NBT (a first for me) for different reasons. When I first saw Edelman at TC and joined the train of people who thought he would make the team that Rab started, I thought he was another Welker.
Now though, I see more than just that, and he is extremely comparable to Amendola. I would like to see him re-signed rather than spend on Amendola, unless Danny's market is barren.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 21705
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadpulse wrote: | I agree with NBT (a first for me) for different reasons. When I first saw Edelman at TC and joined the train of people who thought he would make the team that Rab started, I thought he was another Welker.
Now though, I see more than just that, and he is extremely comparable to Amendola. I would like to see him re-signed rather than spend on Amendola, unless Danny's market is barren. |
I like Edelman and want him back, but his receiving ability is getting pretty overrated by some.
He has too many lapses in concentration and is too unpolished (in technique, route running and field awareness) for me to want him as anything more than a #3/4 type guy. Amendola is a far superior player at this point in their respective careers.
As the primary punt returner and backup WR, he's great. In lieu of a quality WR like Amendola? Not good enough IMO. |
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Deadpulse
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 7734
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Deadpulse wrote: | I agree with NBT (a first for me) for different reasons. When I first saw Edelman at TC and joined the train of people who thought he would make the team that Rab started, I thought he was another Welker.
Now though, I see more than just that, and he is extremely comparable to Amendola. I would like to see him re-signed rather than spend on Amendola, unless Danny's market is barren. |
I like Edelman and want him back, but his receiving ability is getting pretty overrated by some.
He has too many lapses in concentration and is too unpolished (in technique, route running and field awareness) for me to want him as anything more than a #3/4 type guy. Amendola is a far superior player at this point in their respective careers.
As the primary punt returner and backup WR, he's great. In lieu of a quality WR like Amendola? Not good enough IMO. |
I completely agree, but I do think he has the abilities to get on Amendola's level. His flaws are fixable, and despite his decently long tenure in the league, I think consistent playing time could help alleviate these. There is a reason Jules will be leaps and bounds cheaper than Amendola, but I think I am willing to take the risk on the smaller contact in this scenario.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 21705
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadpulse wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Deadpulse wrote: | I agree with NBT (a first for me) for different reasons. When I first saw Edelman at TC and joined the train of people who thought he would make the team that Rab started, I thought he was another Welker.
Now though, I see more than just that, and he is extremely comparable to Amendola. I would like to see him re-signed rather than spend on Amendola, unless Danny's market is barren. |
I like Edelman and want him back, but his receiving ability is getting pretty overrated by some.
He has too many lapses in concentration and is too unpolished (in technique, route running and field awareness) for me to want him as anything more than a #3/4 type guy. Amendola is a far superior player at this point in their respective careers.
As the primary punt returner and backup WR, he's great. In lieu of a quality WR like Amendola? Not good enough IMO. |
I completely agree, but I do think he has the abilities to get on Amendola's level. His flaws are fixable, and despite his decently long tenure in the league, I think consistent playing time could help alleviate these. There is a reason Jules will be leaps and bounds cheaper than Amendola, but I think I am willing to take the risk on the smaller contact in this scenario. |
Depnds on their relative costs. Edelman at $1.5M vs. Amendola at $6M is a no brainer. Edelman at $2.5M vs. Amendola at $5M is a different story |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 4402
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say drop this fool already. He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. On the decline and getting old. We've maxed him out. I wouldn't mind letting him walk and a change to philosophy in the offense. We have other big pieces we can make a bigger part of.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
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Deadpulse
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 7734
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Deadpulse wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | Deadpulse wrote: | I agree with NBT (a first for me) for different reasons. When I first saw Edelman at TC and joined the train of people who thought he would make the team that Rab started, I thought he was another Welker.
Now though, I see more than just that, and he is extremely comparable to Amendola. I would like to see him re-signed rather than spend on Amendola, unless Danny's market is barren. |
I like Edelman and want him back, but his receiving ability is getting pretty overrated by some.
He has too many lapses in concentration and is too unpolished (in technique, route running and field awareness) for me to want him as anything more than a #3/4 type guy. Amendola is a far superior player at this point in their respective careers.
As the primary punt returner and backup WR, he's great. In lieu of a quality WR like Amendola? Not good enough IMO. |
I completely agree, but I do think he has the abilities to get on Amendola's level. His flaws are fixable, and despite his decently long tenure in the league, I think consistent playing time could help alleviate these. There is a reason Jules will be leaps and bounds cheaper than Amendola, but I think I am willing to take the risk on the smaller contact in this scenario. |
Depnds on their relative costs. Edelman at $1.5M vs. Amendola at $6M is a no brainer. Edelman at $2.5M vs. Amendola at $5M is a different story |
True, and both their markets have been fairly soft so far in the legal tampering stage of things. Then again, almost the entire WR market has been fairly quiet thus far.
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point.
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Adopt-A-Patriot '13: Julian "Rocket" Edelman | 11 | All
Rec:105 Yards:1056
PR:35 Avg:10.6
Touchdowns:6
Launches:6
OFFENSIVE MVP |
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Deadpulse
Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 7734
Location: Boston MA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point. |
um, 8-9 mil a year? Yea, im gonna need a link for that.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 21705
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point. |
Do you have a link for the claim that the Pats have offered him "8-9 million per year" lately? Or that he "had the intentions of leaving"?
I know there were rumors that the Pats offered 2/$18M last year but Welker turned that down because he didn't want a 2 year deal, |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 4402
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point. |
Do you have a link for the claim that the Pats have offered him "8-9 million per year" lately? Or that he "had the intentions of leaving"?
I know there were rumors that the Pats offered 2/$18M last year but Welker turned that down because he didn't want a 2 year deal, |
I don't have the link. But I read it here, posted by our very own.
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Adopt-A-Patriot '13: Julian "Rocket" Edelman | 11 | All
Rec:105 Yards:1056
PR:35 Avg:10.6
Touchdowns:6
Launches:6
OFFENSIVE MVP |
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 21705
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point. |
Do you have a link for the claim that the Pats have offered him "8-9 million per year" lately? Or that he "had the intentions of leaving"?
I know there were rumors that the Pats offered 2/$18M last year but Welker turned that down because he didn't want a 2 year deal, |
I don't have the link. But I read it here, posted by our very own. |
That he intended to leave? |
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 4402
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | mcmurtry86 wrote: | | patsfan25 wrote: | | He should be signed by this point if he wasn't being such a castoff. |
Maybe he wants to see what his value is outside of New England.
The only way he "should be signed" is if he were willing to take a significant discount or the Pats were offering a crazy amount. |
And if it's true (which I believe so), it's a little demeaning knowing he had the intentions of leaving. Welker has been superb for us over the years, but he hasn't done anything in the most critical times to prove his worth (playoffs). From what I remember reading, we've opened up to giving him 8-9 million a year, which is not ridiculously low. Welker has taken this past the point. |
Do you have a link for the claim that the Pats have offered him "8-9 million per year" lately? Or that he "had the intentions of leaving"?
I know there were rumors that the Pats offered 2/$18M last year but Welker turned that down because he didn't want a 2 year deal, |
I don't have the link. But I read it here, posted by our very own. |
That he intended to leave? |
Nope. The offer we gave him. At this point, it's pretty clear he wants to test the market. That implies the intention of leaving.
_________________
Adopt-A-Patriot '13: Julian "Rocket" Edelman | 11 | All
Rec:105 Yards:1056
PR:35 Avg:10.6
Touchdowns:6
Launches:6
OFFENSIVE MVP |
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