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the 2013 future of Percy Harvin (trade to SEA? p.39)
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I never said Blackmon is better than Harvin, I disagree with that notion completely.

I think Shorts is better than Harvin though. He is a more complete receiver and more versatile in terms of beating you deep, underneath and all over the field. Its a hard comparison to make since they dont exactly play the same position, but if you ask me who I think is the better overall receiver, its very hard for me to pick Harvin over Shorts. Bottom line in Shorts 2nd season, he put up over 900 yards and averaged over 17 yards a catch.


If we are talking strictly playing the Wide Receiver position, I would agree that Shorts is better than Harvin.

But as an overall player, I'd say Harvin wins that competition, given he's one of the most versatile players in the league.

since the day he's been drafted, I just don't think Harvin has ever really developed. Sounds weird right, because he's so good? Well he has all the natural talent, he just never seemed to bring it all together. He's still just a slot WR/Runningback/Kick Returner. He's pretty darn good at it, but we haven't seen any significant improvement from him.

Harvin hasn't evolved into a #1/#2 WR for us. I just find that very frustrating.
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AQuintus


Joined: 16 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:


But as an overall player, I'd say Harvin wins that competition, given he's one of the most versatile players in the league.


Really, though, how valuable is that versatility to the Vikings?

Harvin is generally considered versatile because he can recieve, occasionally run out of the backfield, and is an elite kick returner.

Recieving - He's excellent at the few routes he can run, but is inability to make plays down field and deep really limit is effectiveness as a reciever and make him a poor fit with a run first team. As has already been said, his best fit would be on a team with an elite deep threat and a limited running game. That's not the Vikings.

Running - Not important at all for the Vikings since we already have the best RB (by far) in the league in MVPeterson. We also have a highly drafted backup who already doesn't see the field enough to justify his draft position in Gerhart. Harvin taking away running touches from either guy is less than ideal.

Returning - There's no denying that Harvin is an eliter return man, but do we really want our 10 million+ dollar a year, number 1 receiver taking hits in the return game? I certainly don't, especially when you can get a probowl level return guy late in the draft who will also provide some limited CB, RB, or WR depth.
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NorthCountryEvo


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


But as an overall player, I'd say Harvin wins that competition, given he's one of the most versatile players in the league.


Really, though, how valuable is that versatility to the Vikings?

Harvin is generally considered versatile because he can recieve, occasionally run out of the backfield, and is an elite kick returner.

Recieving - He's excellent at the few routes he can run, but is inability to make plays down field and deep really limit is effectiveness as a reciever and make him a poor fit with a run first team. As has already been said, his best fit would be on a team with an elite deep threat and a limited running game. That's not the Vikings.

Running - Not important at all for the Vikings since we already have the best RB (by far) in the league in MVPeterson. We also have a highly drafted backup who already doesn't see the field enough to justify his draft position in Gerhart. Harvin taking away running touches from either guy is less than ideal.

Returning - There's no denying that Harvin is an eliter return man, but do we really want our 10 million+ dollar a year, number 1 receiver taking hits in the return game? I certainly don't, especially when you can get a probowl level return guy late in the draft who will also provide some limited CB, RB, or WR depth.


I don't think anyone will argue that Harvin is extremely talented and very mutli-faceted, but I also do not think anyone will argue that he is very under-utilized in our offense. He is a star on our offense with just his recieving, but if he was used 4-5 times a game from the backfield, in reverses or at least fake reverses once or twice a game, his value to any team will be greater than it is now. Can Musgraves offense support Percy and utilize all of his talents? Probably not. Does that mean that we should send him off somewhere else? Not at all, i'd rather keep his talent for ourselves.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvin shouldnt be running the ball nearly as often as he was last year. Its simply not worth the risk if your going to pay him a substantial contract. That is why this versatility is completely overrated to me. In this offense as a top 10ish paid reveiver, he needs to be a receiver. Exposing him to more hits in the running game and return game kind of defeats the purpose in investing in Harvin as a receiver.

To me, the only trait I care about going forward is what he can do as a receiver. So yes, Harvin does need his touches limited. He needs his touches to matter, as in catching big passes down field and occasionally catching a short pass and gaining YAC.

Forcing the ball to one player does not make for an effective passing game, you need variety. I think the passing game can improve with more balanced route runners and receivers who can make plays all over the field. Having separate receivers to perform separate roles just doesnt interest me.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until Ponder establishes he can consistently throw the ball downfield we need a receiver who can turn short passes into long gains. I also think his ability out of the backfield allows us to rest Peterson without losing explosiveness. Harvin is just incredibly under appreciated by some here.
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Zephiel


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There has been a lot of speculation about Harvin’s future with the Vikings, and the wide receiver has refused to comment about the different reports.

However, the latest word from some good sources around the NFL is that Harvin, who missed the final seven regular-season games as well as the playoff game because of a serious ankle injury, has told the Vikings that he doesn’t want to play for them and wants to be traded.

Harvin’s relationship with the Vikings has been much-discussed, including rumors that he isn’t pleased with the coaches’ plans for him on offense and that he does not get along with the medical staff. Quite simply, it seemed as though Harvin wasn’t happy here, and that was made obvious when he didn’t hang around the team during their late-season push toward the playoffs while he rehabbed his ankle.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/196714011.html

This is coming from Sid, guys.
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Vikes_Bolts1228


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephiel wrote:
Harvin’s relationship with the Vikings has been much-discussed, including rumors that he isn’t pleased with the coaches’ plans for him on offense and that he does not get along with the medical staff. Quite simply, it seemed as though Harvin wasn’t happy here, and that was made obvious when he didn’t hang around the team during their late-season push toward the playoffs while he rehabbed his ankle.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/196714011.html

This is coming from Sid, guys.


So basically odds are it's a 50/50 shot of being true.
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
Until Ponder establishes he can consistently throw the ball downfield we need a receiver who can turn short passes into long gains. I also think his ability out of the backfield allows us to rest Peterson without losing explosiveness. Harvin is just incredibly under appreciated by some here.
until we have someone who can get open downfield on a consistent basis its hard to judge ponders deep ball effectiveness .. ponder is just incredibly over scrutinized by some here.
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wcblack34


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Viking wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
Until Ponder establishes he can consistently throw the ball downfield we need a receiver who can turn short passes into long gains. I also think his ability out of the backfield allows us to rest Peterson without losing explosiveness. Harvin is just incredibly under appreciated by some here.
until we have someone who can get open downfield on a consistent basis its hard to judge ponders deep ball effectiveness .. ponder is just incredibly over scrutinized by some here.


Yep. Percy was a malcontent before Ponder even took a snap this year. This has nothing to do with Ponder and everything to do with a fat contract.

For those saying that he's underutilized...do you suggest a "Percy Ratio"? Especially when we all agree that Adrian should get about 25 touches per game? And people said the play calling was too predictable this year...
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikes_Bolts1228 wrote:
So basically odds are it's a 50/50 shot of being true.


No, Sid is the biggest homer still alive, so if he's saying something like that, then it's likely true. He isn't Charley Walters.
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NorthCountryEvo


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Vikes_Bolts1228 wrote:
So basically odds are it's a 50/50 shot of being true.


No, Sid is the biggest homer still alive, so if he's saying something like that, then it's likely true. He isn't Charley Walters.


Yea, Sid normally is a pretty decent source, and honestly, this report sounds in line with how Percy would do business.

As much as I love having Harvin's talents on the field, I think we just have to bite the bullet and trade him. An extra pick or two, especially a 2nd rounder, should bear some decent return, especially if we have a draft like we did last year. Also, by going into FA knowing that we are going to ship Percy off somewhere else, we can knowingly work the WR market in FA a bit better and be somewhat more aggressive since we will assuredly not be having to pay Percy a higher contract. Now, I am not advocating to up the bidding for Wallace, but going after a reasonably priced Greg Jennings or Brandon Gibson should definitely be in our sights. Even though Spielman is a free agency "supplementer" and a draft "team builder", he should recognize that in order to build our worst group on the field, our WR's, we will have to go after someone in free agency. Going to be a very interesting week.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephiel wrote:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/196714011.html

This is coming from Sid, guys.


It seems ironic that the “breaking news” [from Sid Hartman] comes on the opening of the window for agents to talk with teams about potential contract offers. The simple truth is that the Vikings currently have a Hall of Fame type difference-maker under contract in a game that is typified more than any other by the construct of team. The Vikings hold all the cards.

The source of this “breaking news” is an anomaly unto itself in that it could have legitimately been intentionally leaked by either side. If the leak came from the Harvin side, it’s directed at the bottom half of the first round – teams convinced they’re “one player” away from being a Super Bowl team. If the “leak” came from the Vikings, it’s putting those in the Sweet 16 on notice – Percy comes with a price.

The future of the Vikings and Harvin is no different today than it was Friday – before the window for free agent chatter was opened or not. Harvin is available for the taking. Still. Again. But now it’s only for the right price – whether a mutually leaked story has surfaced or not. Serious bidders only.

Does Percy stay? Does Percy go? Nothing has changed. It has only served to put 31 teams on notice … as if that hadn’t already been going on.

http://min.scout.com/2/1273211.html
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
It seems ironic that the “breaking news” [from Sid Hartman] comes on the opening of the window for agents to talk with teams about potential contract offers. The simple truth is that the Vikings currently have a Hall of Fame type difference-maker under contract in a game that is typified more than any other by the construct of team. The Vikings hold all the cards.


I know it didnt come out of your mouth VD, but where do people come up with this stuff. Hall of fame difference maker is something I wouldnt use to describe Harvin's ability on the field.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sid Hartman likes hyperbole. perhaps another reason why his story today should be treated with some healthy skepticism.
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jam8891


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the same as it was a week ago. Media has to have something to talk about this off-season. There isn't that much going on besides the Darrelle Revis saga, along with Free Agency. I strongly believe Harvin will be re-signed and we will still go after a player like Mike Wallace. I just have a feeling that will satisfy Harvin with his contract and it will definitely satisfy Ponder. I'm not saying we will sign a big name WR but I just think that unlike past free agency the front office will make some type of big splash to improve the offense.
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