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carlande
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
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skatebeanz
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17513
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| carlande wrote: | | Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
I disagree.
Winning is a team sport and QB is a single player. But that also means I'm not gonna put 1/6th of the cap into one guy. Honestly if Stafford is gonna command 17/year then I'd rather shop him. Call me stupid but it isn't worth it. He isn't worth that much money.
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5 |
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RyanFuller003
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 19902
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| skatebeanz wrote: | | carlande wrote: | | Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
I disagree.
Winning is a team sport and QB is a single player. But that also means I'm not gonna put 1/6th of the cap into one guy. Honestly if Stafford is gonna command 17/year then I'd rather shop him. Call me stupid but it isn't worth it. He isn't worth that much money. |
How about potentially earning $17 million a year, but realistically making $10 million? Because that's more than likely going to be the case. These gigantic contracts almost never pay out their full value.
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skatebeanz
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17513
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanFuller003 wrote: | | skatebeanz wrote: | | carlande wrote: | | Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
I disagree.
Winning is a team sport and QB is a single player. But that also means I'm not gonna put 1/6th of the cap into one guy. Honestly if Stafford is gonna command 17/year then I'd rather shop him. Call me stupid but it isn't worth it. He isn't worth that much money. |
How about potentially earning $17 million a year, but realistically making $10 million? Because that's more than likely going to be the case. These gigantic contracts almost never pay out their full value. |
Maybe but my guess is he will get a lot guaranteed. I think he has gotten more than that this contract tho.
Isnt this the 2-3rd year he is making 20million or close?
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5 |
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RyanFuller003
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 19902
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| skatebeanz wrote: | | RyanFuller003 wrote: | | skatebeanz wrote: | | carlande wrote: | | Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
I disagree.
Winning is a team sport and QB is a single player. But that also means I'm not gonna put 1/6th of the cap into one guy. Honestly if Stafford is gonna command 17/year then I'd rather shop him. Call me stupid but it isn't worth it. He isn't worth that much money. |
How about potentially earning $17 million a year, but realistically making $10 million? Because that's more than likely going to be the case. These gigantic contracts almost never pay out their full value. |
Maybe but my guess is he will get a lot guaranteed. I think he has gotten more than that this contract tho.
Isnt this the 2-3rd year he is making 20million or close? |
No, it's just his cap hit that's that high, and that's because we're currently paying penalties for bonus money he has already received. When they restructure they basically knock a guy's base salary down to veteran minimum and pay him the rest of it as a bonus. That bonus money is divided by the amount of years left on his contract and evenly spread throughout those years for cap reasons. His base salary is only $12.5 million this year and $11 million next year with a $15 million club option for 2015. That makes him about the 6th highest paid QB in the league right now, and that's pretty much because we had to give him that kind of money under the previous CBA.
Sam Bradford is making more than that, as is Matt Schaub, Eli Manning, and Joe Flacco. That's just off-hand. There are probably several more making similar amounts of money, like Carson Palmer for example.
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| MrDrew wrote: | | I may have to find a taxidermist that will make me a koozie out of a squirrel in a kilt now. |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 22003
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanFuller003 wrote: | | skatebeanz wrote: | | RyanFuller003 wrote: | | skatebeanz wrote: | | carlande wrote: | | Stephen A Smith and Skip Bayless were just arguing Flacco's contract. Smith said according to the market, all Flacco has to do is make the post-season to validate his contract. If that's the case for Flacco who has played in 3 AFC championship games and just won a superbowl, that has to be the case for Stafford who has made 1 playoff appearance and lost. Argue QB rating and intangibles/team all you want, a quarterback has to be a perenial playoff contender and/or superbowl champion to command top-5 QB money. |
I disagree.
Winning is a team sport and QB is a single player. But that also means I'm not gonna put 1/6th of the cap into one guy. Honestly if Stafford is gonna command 17/year then I'd rather shop him. Call me stupid but it isn't worth it. He isn't worth that much money. |
How about potentially earning $17 million a year, but realistically making $10 million? Because that's more than likely going to be the case. These gigantic contracts almost never pay out their full value. |
Maybe but my guess is he will get a lot guaranteed. I think he has gotten more than that this contract tho.
Isnt this the 2-3rd year he is making 20million or close? |
No, it's just his cap hit that's that high, and that's because we're currently paying penalties for bonus money he has already received. When they restructure they basically knock a guy's base salary down to veteran minimum and pay him the rest of it as a bonus. That bonus money is divided by the amount of years left on his contract and evenly spread throughout those years for cap reasons. His base salary is only $12.5 million this year and $11 million next year with a $15 million club option for 2015. That makes him about the 6th highest paid QB in the league right now, and that's pretty much because we had to give him that kind of money under the previous CBA.
Sam Bradford is making more than that, as is Matt Schaub, Eli Manning, and Joe Flacco. That's just off-hand. There are probably several more making similar amounts of money, like Carson Palmer for example. |
Stafford I believe was guaranteed 41 million in his rookie deal and as you suggest the cap hit is due to restructures that increased bonuses.
Unfortunately any extension is going to have to be a large number of years to make a dent in this years cap number.
Oh well. It is what it is I guess.
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EhJae
Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 1091
Location: CB, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: |
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With free agency starting soon, I wonder if they've made any progress in restructuring his contract.
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El Duderino
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| EhJae wrote: | | With free agency starting soon, I wonder if they've made any progress in restructuring his contract. |
There probably won't be any progress until Ryan and Rodgers get their extensions. |
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Jrugges
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 8277
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 4/25/2009: Signed a six-year, $72 million contract. The deal contains $41.75 million guaranteed, including an $18.2 million signing bonus and an additional $8.475 million "signing" bonus in the third year. Another $6 million is available through incentives based on Stafford playing 35% of the offensive snaps as a rookie and 45% throughout the life of the deal. 2013: $12.5 million, 2014: $11 million, 2015: $15 million (Club Option), 2016: Free Agent |
He's gotten a fair contract imo. He's received we know at least 26.675 million without salary, and he's recieved 3 years of salary where he's made at least 2 million per(might be allocated differently). An there's still an inside shot the contract can be worth up to 78 million with the 6million dollar incentive. I think another similiar deal should be signed for Stafford. I doubt anything gets worked out this year. An honestly IF management was smart they might low ball offer this year in an attempt he might rework his deal, but next year will be a better year to decide the FUTURE of Stafford with the potential of the house being cleaned out imo, or at least the coaches if not everyone management on up. If Stafford holds up the Lions team, top 5 offense, in the playoff hunt if not make the playoffs. Then imo, you pay Stafford. Right now, for me they're too many question marks about how "elite" Stafford is. |
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detfan782004
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 40116
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thread summed up. Stafford has to block for himself. Throw to himself and somehow manage to take some snaps on defense. The way it reads failure of this team is on him and nobody else. Awesome
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13818
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | Thread summed up. Stafford has to block for himself. Throw to himself and somehow manage to take some snaps on defense. The way it reads failure of this team is on him and nobody else. Awesome |
WTH are you reading?!?
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carlande
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1410
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | | detfan782004 wrote: | | Thread summed up. Stafford has to block for himself. Throw to himself and somehow manage to take some snaps on defense. The way it reads failure of this team is on him and nobody else. Awesome |
WTH are you reading?!? |
He's reading alot of what I posted. If I'm Mayhew talking contracts I'm putting pressure on Stafford to lead this team to the playoffs next year. He's not going to become a leader getting coddled and rewarded.
He's the QB, not the team mascot. If you can't put pressure on your QB and turn up the heat to win why did you draft him? Kid gloves were off two years ago...no excuses. The quarterbacks that get re-signed to stay with teams have to be successful. This is clearcut. Stafford wasn't very good last year and the Lions lost - can't happen again, his fault or not. He might not even want to re-sign if this team flounders. The way things are going right now, he'll get a new start/shot in Dallas.
This all stems from the crappy season. This isn't Candy Land, it's time to beat every team in the Division at least once and take back the NFC-North. Otherwise why do we even care? |
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Louis Friend
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 7191
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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From all the talk from Mayhew about re-signing Stafford as his top priority this offseason, I think a deal gets done. I hope it's not outrageous, but obviously, it's going to be alot of money because Stafford is a young franchise QB.
I'm not sure what one more season will prove one way or the other for Stafford. He had injuries his first two seasons, he's been healthy his last two. He led the Lions to the playoffs his first healthy season. He passed for 5,000 yds once and came close a second time. Youngest ever to do so. Calvin Johnson re-signed because Stafford is here to throw to him (his own words). Obviously, we want perenially playoff berths and hopefully some postseason wins in there. But it's not going to happen unless we lock him up long term.
I think we as Lions fans have dreamed of success for so long that we project all negative history onto current players. And it's unfair. |
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 22003
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Louis Friend wrote: | From all the talk from Mayhew about re-signing Stafford as his top priority this offseason, I think a deal gets done. I hope it's not outrageous, but obviously, it's going to be alot of money because Stafford is a young franchise QB.
I'm not sure what one more season will prove one way or the other for Stafford. He had injuries his first two seasons, he's been healthy his last two. He led the Lions to the playoffs his first healthy season. He passed for 5,000 yds once and came close a second time. Youngest ever to do so. Calvin Johnson re-signed because Stafford is here to throw to him (his own words). Obviously, we want perenially playoff berths and hopefully some postseason wins in there. But it's not going to happen unless we lock him up long term.
I think we as Lions fans have dreamed of success for so long that we project all negative history onto current players. And it's unfair. |
I understand and can't really disagree. I've had a lifetime of frustration being a Lions Fan.
Just today I was reading my season ticket renewal package. On the front cover it says,
" Be a part of the 2013 Detroit Lions and create memories at Ford Field that last a lifetime."
When I read that it saddened me. There aren't positive memories of this team since Barry retired.
While it may be unfair to hold this regime up and paint them with a brush discoloured by previous regimes and their failings its equally unfair entering the fifth season to continue expecting more than they've shown to date. In short they no longer deserve a blank slate.
At this point I'm not certain what to think of Stafford. I currently view him as a good young QB that has the potential to be a franchise QB but isn't there yet.
His contract negotiations are dangerous for this team. If they sign him long term it appears to me to get this years cap number down the signing bonus will have to be significant. If his development stalls or he doesn't improve the Lions hands will be tied because cutting him in the future would simply create to much dead money. Perhaps I'm wrong about the financials. If someone has a different read on it I would like to hear their ideas.
If they sign him long term it becomes imperative they fix the oline in an attempt to provide him adequate protection. Stafford needs a pocket and he needs an interior running game.
The Lions simply can't have a good QB for the contract Stafford will get. They need an elite QB and have to invest the resources to make sure that happens.
Last week I was called a cry baby on these forums because I'm negative. I am negative but I don't perceive that as being a cry baby.
Mayhew and company are entering the fifth season of their tenure and so far I'm not very impressed. Everyone is blaming the lack of a rookie salary cap for the Lions financial woes. That's only 1/2 the problem. Mayhew and Lewand have restructured contracts pushing the cap hit forward for short term relief. Alone that's manageable but not when you're signing everyone to short term deals that expire in the same year.
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carlande
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 1410
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | Louis Friend wrote: | From all the talk from Mayhew about re-signing Stafford as his top priority this offseason, I think a deal gets done. I hope it's not outrageous, but obviously, it's going to be alot of money because Stafford is a young franchise QB.
I'm not sure what one more season will prove one way or the other for Stafford. He had injuries his first two seasons, he's been healthy his last two. He led the Lions to the playoffs his first healthy season. He passed for 5,000 yds once and came close a second time. Youngest ever to do so. Calvin Johnson re-signed because Stafford is here to throw to him (his own words). Obviously, we want perenially playoff berths and hopefully some postseason wins in there. But it's not going to happen unless we lock him up long term.
I think we as Lions fans have dreamed of success for so long that we project all negative history onto current players. And it's unfair. |
I understand and can't really disagree. I've had a lifetime of frustration being a Lions Fan.
Just today I was reading my season ticket renewal package. On the front cover it says,
" Be a part of the 2013 Detroit Lions and create memories at Ford Field that last a lifetime."
When I read that it saddened me. There aren't positive memories of this team since Barry retired.
While it may be unfair to hold this regime up and paint them with a brush discoloured by previous regimes and their failings its equally unfair entering the fifth season to continue expecting more than they've shown to date. In short they no longer deserve a blank slate.
At this point I'm not certain what to think of Stafford. I currently view him as a good young QB that has the potential to be a franchise QB but isn't there yet.
His contract negotiations are dangerous for this team. If they sign him long term it appears to me to get this years cap number down the signing bonus will have to be significant. If his development stalls or he doesn't improve the Lions hands will be tied because cutting him in the future would simply create to much dead money. Perhaps I'm wrong about the financials. If someone has a different read on it I would like to hear their ideas.
If they sign him long term it becomes imperative they fix the oline in an attempt to provide him adequate protection. Stafford needs a pocket and he needs an interior running game.
The Lions simply can't have a good QB for the contract Stafford will get. They need an elite QB and have to invest the resources to make sure that happens.
Last week I was called a cry baby on these forums because I'm negative. I am negative but I don't perceive that as being a cry baby.
Mayhew and company are entering the fifth season of their tenure and so far I'm not very impressed. Everyone is blaming the lack of a rookie salary cap for the Lions financial woes. That's only 1/2 the problem. Mayhew and Lewand have restructured contracts pushing the cap hit forward for short term relief. Alone that's manageable but not when you're signing everyone to short term deals that expire in the same year. |
I've seen quarterbacks like Vick have a good season one year and then look like crud the next. The same goes for Carson Palmer. The Same goes for fill in the blank_______________.
I don't want to be negative but lets get this straight.
The Lions sucked this year. Time to get real guys. This isn't 2011. |
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