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theJ
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky151 wrote: | | I don't think any team including the Bengals will give Andre 9 mil. Whitworth is making 6 mil. To justify that, a team would have to either think he'll be an elite LT or have money to burn. With a flat cap over the last 4 years, nobody has money to burn. |
Whitworths deal was years ago. The better comp is what Villain posted, Duane Brown. Or even Beatty from the Giants. Both were less than the $9 mil mark.
| INbengalfan wrote: | | What does Suh average? Like 8 mill? Well thats what Geno should average then too (or maybe a bit more). |
Again, that was years ago. Even with the flat cap, salaries for top players continues to go up. I wouldn't be surprised if Geno averaged in the 10's. Look for him to make slightly more than whatever Melton (Chi) makes - if they come to a deal. If they don't, it'll make it harder for the Bengals to extend Geno.
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sparky151
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1283
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| theJ wrote: | | sparky151 wrote: | | I don't think any team including the Bengals will give Andre 9 mil. Whitworth is making 6 mil. To justify that, a team would have to either think he'll be an elite LT or have money to burn. With a flat cap over the last 4 years, nobody has money to burn. |
Whitworths deal was years ago. The better comp is what Villain posted, Duane Brown. Or even Beatty from the Giants. Both were less than the $9 mil mark.
| INbengalfan wrote: | | What does Suh average? Like 8 mill? Well thats what Geno should average then too (or maybe a bit more). |
Again, that was years ago. Even with the flat cap, salaries for top players continues to go up. I wouldn't be surprised if Geno averaged in the 10's. Look for him to make slightly more than whatever Melton (Chi) makes - if they come to a deal. If they don't, it'll make it harder for the Bengals to extend Geno. |
The comparison to Whitworth is quite valid for the Bengals. They have to maintain horizontal parity within the team. Paying a less important player 50% more than a more important player at the same position would be unwise.
Suh is wildly overpaid, as his contract was scaled off Sam Bradford's, not another DTs. Suh won't collect all the money in his deal without restructuring on terms more favorable to the club. His cap number is over 18 mil this year (12 mil in salary plus 6 mil in previously paid bonuses) and no DT is worth that. It's why the Lions want to restructure him and Stafford.
The Bengals aren't under any pressure to do a deal with Geno since he is already signed for 2013 at 1.3 mil, then can be tagged in 2014 for around 8.5 mil, then tagged again in 2015 for a 20% raise over 2014. AJ Green is under contract through 2014 with a team option (which will be exercised) for 2015 so until AJ hits free agency there is no reason not to tag Geno. That means he lacks leverage and will probably get a deal around 10 mil or so for new years. |
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LondonBengal
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 2068
Location: London, England, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason_Bengal_Fl wrote: | | $9M seems like a little much to me. |
$9M is a lot, but compared with what ? Its about time we locked-up some of 'our' guys. Agree with 'Duke' here, o-line cohesion is underrated.
As with all these contracts, the devils is in the detail, and the big haggling point will be the guarenteed money.
$22:08M of Duane Browns deal of $53.4M, (41%), was guarenteed money. The remainder based on performance/signing.
I wouldn't object to offering Andre a 5-6 year deal with average of around $6.3M guarenteed, with another 45% on top of that based on attendance/ health/ performance/ signing getting him up to the $9M he wants.
If we want to have a serious effort to get deeper into the play-offs Smith is the kind of young player we need to see the best years of.
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LondonBengal
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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Location: London, England, UK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| sparky151 wrote: | | The comparison to Whitworth is quite valid for the Bengals. They have to maintain horizontal parity within the team. Paying a less important player 50% more than a more important player at the same position would be unwise.. |
Very true, but: (as I'm sure Smiths agent would quickly point out): Andre Smith ranked higher than Whit last year in some OT measurables. I don't know the numbers, but I doubt Levi Jones ever got near Willie Andersons' stack.
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Spartan300
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| He needs to be locked up long term. Don't compare him to Whit, he tends to get vastly overated by people. Smith is one of the best RT's in the game. We have oline problems but not at this spot. |
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INbengalfan
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 4671
Location: Richmond, IN
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| LondonBengal wrote: | | sparky151 wrote: | | The comparison to Whitworth is quite valid for the Bengals. They have to maintain horizontal parity within the team. Paying a less important player 50% more than a more important player at the same position would be unwise.. |
Very true, but: (as I'm sure Smiths agent would quickly point out): Andre Smith ranked higher than Whit last year in some OT measurables. I don't know the numbers, but I doubt Levi Jones ever got near Willie Andersons' stack. |
Whit was the top rated pass blocker league wide among LTs. Andre was best rated run blocker for RTs. I love Andre, but not at $9 mill. I'll say it again, if you start paying all of these guys over market value, then you will be burning in cap purgatory in the not too distant future.
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TheVillain112
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Why is Andre Smith still un-signed?
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theJ
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | Why is Andre Smith still un-signed? |
I think interested teams are waiting to see what Jake Long gets. His deal will set Andre's market.
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ochocinco4pres
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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Location: Indianapolis Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| theJ wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | Why is Andre Smith still un-signed? |
I think interested teams are waiting to see what Jake Long gets. His deal will set Andre's market. |
Which is interesting since Long is a LT
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GregorSamsa
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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He can make more than Whit, that is the nature of the business. Remember when Steinbach left and his contract was consideed pretty gaudy, but then soon after those numbers were not. Whit signed his contract a few years ago and I would say it was a good contract for the Bengals. Andre has more leverage and the matter of a later signing that will justify his higher pay. Whit will have another contract when has those as well. Timing is everything.
Get it done.
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LondonBengal
Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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Location: London, England, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| theJ wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | Why is Andre Smith still un-signed? |
I think interested teams are waiting to see what Jake Long gets. His deal will set Andre's market. |
Jake Long has just signed with the Rams.
4yrs, $34M @ $8.5M average, $16M guarenteed. Incentives can take it up to $36M
Jake Long and Andre Smith share the same agent. I expect Smiths deal to be in the same ballaprk but slightly less than Longs
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theJ
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| LondonBengal wrote: | | theJ wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | Why is Andre Smith still un-signed? |
I think interested teams are waiting to see what Jake Long gets. His deal will set Andre's market. |
Jake Long has just signed with the Rams.
4yrs, $34M @ $8.5M average, $16M guarenteed. Incentives can take it up to $36M
Jake Long and Andre Smith share the same agent. I expect Smiths deal to be in the same ballaprk but slightly less than Longs |
With that deal on the books, i find it unlikely that Smith will get his 9 million.
Probably in the 7.5-8 million range.
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THE DUKE
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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Location: Centerville, OH
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: |
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5 years, $40 mil, get er done. Keep Smith and Zeitler on the right either side together the next half decade.
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sparky151
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
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Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Andre should expect at least 1 mil per year less than Long, maybe 2 mil. He hasn't been to multiple pro bowls and doesn't protect the blind side. With a soft market he should be happy to get more than 7 mil. |
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