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2013 NFL Draft Prospects for the Washington Redskins
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1577
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Saw this on another forum:
"Heard Marquise Goodwin on Jay Mohr sports. He said he talked to all 32 teams at the combine but the Seahawks, Cowboys and Redskins showed the most interest."

If we can't get Justin Hunter in the 2nd round, I would love for us to grab Goodwin in the 3rd round


Im not sure Justin Hunter would fit with what we do. I agree he is a great athetele and would be a solid deep threat, but he showed in college not to be very physical and not willing to go across the middle. WRs have to block in our scheme and be physical. Hunter is long and lean and would get man handled by physical corners and safties. Not sure he is what we are looking for.......just an opinion.


I do agree with you in that he wouldn't be as good of a blocker as other WRs we currently have like Morgan, but his size adds something none of our other receivers have as well, so he could really give us an extra dimension on offense that we don't have. Hunter is probably the best receiver in the class at going up in the air grabbing 50/50 balls. He would be huge in the redzone for us. He also has very good top end speed to beat corners deep. His size/speed paired with RG3's deep ball would be great lined up opposite Pierre Garcon who is one of the better YAC/Screen receivers in the league. I feel those to would be a dynamic combo that could effectively work the whole field together. Can't say I agree that he doesn't go over the middle. He has made all sorts of plays in the middle of the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6GXID2dXk
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Saw this on another forum:
"Heard Marquise Goodwin on Jay Mohr sports. He said he talked to all 32 teams at the combine but the Seahawks, Cowboys and Redskins showed the most interest."

If we can't get Justin Hunter in the 2nd round, I would love for us to grab Goodwin in the 3rd round


Im not sure Justin Hunter would fit with what we do. I agree he is a great athetele and would be a solid deep threat, but he showed in college not to be very physical and not willing to go across the middle. WRs have to block in our scheme and be physical. Hunter is long and lean and would get man handled by physical corners and safties. Not sure he is what we are looking for.......just an opinion.


I do agree with you in that he wouldn't be as good of a blocker as other WRs we currently have like Morgan, but his size adds something none of our other receivers have as well, so he could really give us an extra dimension on offense that we don't have. Hunter is probably the best receiver in the class at going up in the air grabbing 50/50 balls. He would be huge in the redzone for us. He also has very good top end speed to beat corners deep. His size/speed paired with RG3's deep ball would be great lined up opposite Pierre Garcon who is one of the better YAC/Screen receivers in the league. I feel those to would be a dynamic combo that could effectively work the whole field together. Can't say I agree that he doesn't go over the middle. He has made all sorts of plays in the middle of the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6GXID2dXk
whos our FS? Madieu Williams how bout our Rt, we bringing back mr turnstile himself Polumbus?

Wr is not this teams problem. If its going to be addressed at all, I guarentee it won't be till the later rounds and that's when they clearly think a player is best on the board. I'm talking like 5, 6, 7. I don't see us taking a RB till then either.

Everything that I've heard from redskins insiders is this team will focus on making the secondary better in FA and early in the draft. It's clear to all but a few that is what this team needs to do to take the next step and win a playoff game.

We do that and I think we win 11 games next year, host another playoff game and win at the least one.

If the young wrs don't improve a lot this offseason (Hank, Robinson, Briscoe) then in 2014 I could see us going WR in round 2, but not this draft.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Saw this on another forum:
"Heard Marquise Goodwin on Jay Mohr sports. He said he talked to all 32 teams at the combine but the Seahawks, Cowboys and Redskins showed the most interest."

If we can't get Justin Hunter in the 2nd round, I would love for us to grab Goodwin in the 3rd round


Im not sure Justin Hunter would fit with what we do. I agree he is a great athetele and would be a solid deep threat, but he showed in college not to be very physical and not willing to go across the middle. WRs have to block in our scheme and be physical. Hunter is long and lean and would get man handled by physical corners and safties. Not sure he is what we are looking for.......just an opinion.


I do agree with you in that he wouldn't be as good of a blocker as other WRs we currently have like Morgan, but his size adds something none of our other receivers have as well, so he could really give us an extra dimension on offense that we don't have. Hunter is probably the best receiver in the class at going up in the air grabbing 50/50 balls. He would be huge in the redzone for us. He also has very good top end speed to beat corners deep. His size/speed paired with RG3's deep ball would be great lined up opposite Pierre Garcon who is one of the better YAC/Screen receivers in the league. I feel those to would be a dynamic combo that could effectively work the whole field together. Can't say I agree that he doesn't go over the middle. He has made all sorts of plays in the middle of the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6GXID2dXk
whos our FS? Madieu Williams how bout our Rt, we bringing back mr turnstile himself Polumbus?

Wr is not this teams problem. If its going to be addressed at all, I guarentee it won't be till the later rounds and that's when they clearly think a player is best on the board. I'm talking like 5, 6, 7. I don't see us taking a RB till then either.

Everything that I've heard from redskins insiders is this team will focus on making the secondary better in FA and early in the draft. It's clear to all but a few that is what this team needs to do to take the next step and win a playoff game.

We do that and I think we win 11 games next year, host another playoff game and win at the least one.

If the young wrs don't improve a lot this offseason (Hank, Robinson, Briscoe) then in 2014 I could see us going WR in round 2, but not this draft.


This draft had tremendous depth at WR/S for round 2-4. We could easily get a starter at each of those positions in those rounds. We have multiple young lineman that also need a chance to show what they can do that we picked up last year. Also on top of the young guys, if we get some cap space back and/or restructure some contracts we definitely will have options that we can target at RT in free agency this year.

Obviously if the Redskins are extensively talking to Goodwin who is pretty much a consensus round 2-4 guy now after the combine, the Redskins are looking to give RG3 a weapon in this draft earlier than what you are thinking.

Seriously have so many options as FS, and even SS in the draft this year. In no order pretty much any of these guys would make an impact for us at Safety:
Vaccaro, Reid, P. Thomas, Rambo, Jefferson, Mcdonald, Swearinger, Elam, Cyprien, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Lester, D. Williams, and Ray Ray.

It's safe to say that we should be able to land a solid FS out of those guys with our first few picks, and maybe even a SS to form a solid young tandem.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that is true Tyler, but the thing is this team needs a new starting FS and possibly a new starting SS. And depending on what happens with Hall, we might need a new starting CB.

tyler735 wrote:
Obviously if the Redskins are extensively talking to Goodwin who is pretty much a consensus round 2-4 guy now after the combine, the Redskins are looking to give RG3 a weapon in this draft earlier than what you are thinking.
are they extensively talking to Goodwin and focusing a lot on him? Do you have proof of this or just showing something where the redskins were at the combine and talked to and had interviews with many, many prospects.

Quote:
Seriously have so many options as FS, and even SS in the draft this year. In no order pretty much any of these guys would make an impact for us at Safety:
Vaccaro, Reid, P. Thomas, Rambo, Jefferson, Mcdonald, Swearinger, Elam, Cyprien, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Lester, D. Williams, and Ray Ray.

It's safe to say that we should be able to land a solid FS out of those guys with our first few picks, and maybe even a SS to form a solid young tandem.
we will and I hope we take the best safety, cb and tackle prospects we can in round 2, 3 and 4 rather than take a 6th wr that early.

I'd rather see us take a LB rather than WR also because fletcher has one more year left at most.

http://dailytexanonline.com/blogs/keeping-score/2013/02/28/longhorns-at-the-nfl-combine-marquise-goodwin-helps-draft-stock-with

Quote:
... NFL organizations will not pass on the opportunity to acquire the fastest 40 in the draft, but with no major success as a wide receiver, there is little guarantee Goodwin will be selected in the early rounds.
I'd go onw step further than the daily texan and say there is little chance he'll be drafted in the early rounds because of little production at WR at UT.

Maybe that's good for us though, I don't have a problem taking him after we've addressed the positions we need more.

We have two starting WRs and they will return. Garcon and Morgan. They were both injured all year last year and despite that and not having many targets,(because we ran more than anyone in the NFL) they had good seasons.

Moss had a good season, as did Hankerson.

Robinson didn't see many targets but when he did get them, he produced big plays except for a few drops.

Shanahan praised Briscoe like crazy all camp and when the final cuts were made he said something like "you'll be surprised what he can do when he gets the chance." The problem was Briscoe was burried behind 3 veterans and two players in their second season in the system. I really think Moss will be gone opening up the door for Hank, Briscoe and Robinson to get a lot more targets and break out. One of them will, if not all 3.

We have A LOT of talent at wr, both veteran and youth.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Yes that is true Tyler, but the thing is this team needs a new starting FS and possibly a new starting SS. And depending on what happens with Hall, we might need a new starting CB.

tyler735 wrote:
Obviously if the Redskins are extensively talking to Goodwin who is pretty much a consensus round 2-4 guy now after the combine, the Redskins are looking to give RG3 a weapon in this draft earlier than what you are thinking.
are they extensively talking to Goodwin and focusing a lot on him? Do you have proof of this or just showing something where the redskins were at the combine and talked to and had interviews with many, many prospects.

Quote:
Seriously have so many options as FS, and even SS in the draft this year. In no order pretty much any of these guys would make an impact for us at Safety:
Vaccaro, Reid, P. Thomas, Rambo, Jefferson, Mcdonald, Swearinger, Elam, Cyprien, S. Thomas, S. Williams, Lester, D. Williams, and Ray Ray.

It's safe to say that we should be able to land a solid FS out of those guys with our first few picks, and maybe even a SS to form a solid young tandem.
we will and I hope we take the best safety, cb and tackle prospects we can in round 2, 3 and 4 rather than take a 6th wr that early.

I'd rather see us take a LB rather than WR also because fletcher has one more year left at most.

http://dailytexanonline.com/blogs/keeping-score/2013/02/28/longhorns-at-the-nfl-combine-marquise-goodwin-helps-draft-stock-with

Quote:
... NFL organizations will not pass on the opportunity to acquire the fastest 40 in the draft, but with no major success as a wide receiver, there is little guarantee Goodwin will be selected in the early rounds.
I'd go onw step further than the daily texan and say there is little chance he'll be drafted in the early rounds because of little production at WR at UT.

Maybe that's good for us though, I don't have a problem taking him after we've addressed the positions we need more.

We have two starting WRs and they will return. Garcon and Morgan. They were both injured all year last year and despite that and not having many targets,(because we ran more than anyone in the NFL) they had good seasons.

Moss had a good season, as did Hankerson.

Robinson didn't see many targets but when he did get them, he produced big plays except for a few drops.

Shanahan praised Briscoe like crazy all camp and when the final cuts were made he said something like "you'll be surprised what he can do when he gets the chance." The problem was Briscoe was burried behind 3 veterans and two players in their second season in the system. I really think Moss will be gone opening up the door for Hank, Briscoe and Robinson to get a lot more targets and break out. One of them will, if not all 3.

We have A LOT of talent at wr, both veteran and youth.


I provided info that the Redskins were among the most thorough talking to Goodwin, which is more than enough evidence showing that they are interested in a WR that is supposed to go rounds 2-4.

You gave a newspaper article with a vague description of early rounds (could very well mean rounds 1-2). Either way not really that great of a source.

Round 3
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=2013&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC&startspot=10

Round 3
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013/WR

Round 4
http://www.optimumscouting.com/rankings/static/wide-receiver-rankings.html

"Although Goodwin had just 26 catches as a senior, his athleticism could earn him second-round grades."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/21760769/2013-nfl-combine-austin-goodwin-run-425-in-40-yard-dash

NFL.com mentions him as a possible day 2 pick as well, and that scouting report is from before the combine.

Like I said months ago, guys like TJ Graham, and Travis Benjamin went 3rd/4th last year because of their speed, and they haven't had the buzz that Goodwin has been receiving this offseason, so I would be surprised to see him make it past the 4th round. Neither of those guys produced big stats in college either, so it won't stop Goodwin from being picked rounds 2-4.

The fact that all those "talented" receivers we supposedly have did not step up yet again this year is definitely cause for concern. None has shown anything that resembles a true number 1 or 2 receiver besides Garcon. They all have had their chances the past few seasons to make an impact either here or the team they were on previously, and weren't able to. Should be a serious red flag.

Hankerson- Lost a step after injury, inconsistent hands, below average change of direction/quickness, hasn't stepped up as a playmaker despite having two gimped receivers starting ahead of him this year.

Briscoe- Inconsistent hands, slow as molasses, cut by one team already. Couldn't produce with two gimped receivers ahead of him.

Morgan- Bonehead, can't stay healthy, has never produced consistently, also had some terrible drops this year, but not as bad as Hankerson/Robinson. Still nothing more than a number 3 or 4 receiver on most teams.

Moss- Love the guy, but he's on his last legs

Robinson- Limited route tree(he can run a 9 route, and a deep cross), inconsistent hands. Couldn't produce with two gimped starting receivers ahead of him.

How pathetic is it that Garcon only got extensive playing time in 7 games this season...wasn't even 100% in those games, and still was our leading receiver...followed by an aging Santana Moss. If we had talent it would have produced this season. Nobody stepped up plain and simple. For god sake Moss had as many TD's as Morgan, Robinson, Hankerson, and Briscoe combined Laughing
http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2012&team=WAS&seasonType=REG

The WR's had a great QB throwing to them last season...the CB's had no help from the Safety's/Pass rush. We got Minnifield who has talent at CB. Plus we still as of now have Hall/Wilson who are fine at CB if they have Safety help/a pass rush (Orakpo/Carriker). Not to say I don't wanna add a guy in the draft, or through free agency if we get cap space back.
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Errr. Are you really blasting our WR's?

WR's take 3 to 4 years before they normally hit their stride. If Aldrick and Leonard don't do anything of merit this year (which Leonard looks to at least be a serviceable number 2 with his progression over the last 2 years), than its talks of getting new guys in but for now...they're still in that tweener phase for WR's.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you brian23 and to expect a rookie wr to come in and take the place of two veteran wrs who are starting (Garcon and morgan) and have a year in the system, two young wrs who have two years in the system (Hankerson and Robinson) and a young wr who will be in his second year in the system (Briscoe) is not a rational thought.

Goodwin is athletic but he is raw as raw can be for an offense as complex as ours. I too find it odd a fan of the redskins is bashing our wrs so much while pushing the credentials of a track athlete at Texas who played wr but never put up production that wowed anyone. You'd think he'd get the ball on screens or shallow crossing patterns and break them for big gains like Garcon and Moss have throughout their careers but he didn't. Even if his qbs sucked at Texas, he'd still have that and have a lot of production in the return game but he just frankly doesn't. To draft a workout warrior who shines at the combine but doesn't have the tape to back it up is a very scary pick and risky pick to make.

Lets go over what the redskins current wrs have done since they apparently need replaced as Tyler says:

Starters:

Pierre Garcon: 10 games. 44 recs, 633 yds, 4 TDs, 26 first downs

Josh Morgan: 16 games. 48 recs, 510 yds, 2 TDs, 29 first downs
Led the team in receptions!

NEITHER were 100% HEALTHY all YEAR!!

Santana Moss: 16 games. 41 recs, 573 yds, 8 TDs, 26 first downs

Leonard Hankerson: 16 games. 38 recs, 543 yds, 3 TDs, 25 first downs

-He had an 8 catch game in 2011 vs Miami
- he had a 7 catch game vs Tampa and a 6 catch game vs the Giants in 2012. He's shown progress!



Aldrick Robinson: 15 games. 11 recs, 237 yds (21.5 avg) 3 TDs

-For WRs who had 10 recs he's #2 in the NFL at 21.5 per rec.

Dezmon Briscoe: 2011 in Tampa 16 games. 35 recs, 387 yds, 6 TDs, 20 first downs

Now we also thew the ball less than any other team in the entire NFL and you have this much balance amongst your wrs, NOT including the Tight ends even! And your top wr and top TE missed about half the season each. Now how in the world can anyone think we have a starting wr problem or a depth problem?

Our starters are proven to be tough wrs who will play through injuries for us. They've proven to be good blockers for Rg3 and Morris. They've proven they can make tough catches for us and Garcon has proven to be explosive when he's healthy and even some when he isn't 100%.

Our 3 young wrs on the roster have shown progress, they've flashed ability to be reliable in the NFL. For someone to say they haven't means they are totally ignoring the facts.

Can they be better and more consistent? Yes! But are they young, all under 25 and still developing in our system? YES!

They need time to develop as Brian23 said, and they are all 3 developing just fine. We do NOT need to draft a WR in round 2 or 3 with the way our roster currently stands and even if Moss is cut, we still don't need a WR that high. Everyone should be totally comfortable with Garcon, Morgan, Hank, Briscoe and Robinson moving forward in 2013 and if you aren't then I just don't get it. You can't have 5 wrs who are worthy of starting, you can't afford it.

Hank, Briscoe and Robinson are apart of this teams future and any rational redskins fan should see it that way.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
Errr. Are you really blasting our WR's?

WR's take 3 to 4 years before they normally hit their stride. If Aldrick and Leonard don't do anything of merit this year (which Leonard looks to at least be a serviceable number 2 with his progression over the last 2 years), than its talks of getting new guys in but for now...they're still in that tweener phase for WR's.


Yeah I am blasting our WR's. Hankerson has never impressed me that much since he came out of Miami. As stated before he just doesn't have consistent hands, doesn't get much separation, and seems like he's not as quick as he was before his injury.

"The Skins lost 3 completions on drops by WR Leonard Hankerson and TE Niles Paul and a fall by Hankerson. The receivers need to help RG3 out more."
http://www.dcprosportsreport.com/washington-redskins/the-fifth-quarter/the-5th-quarter-redskins-24-buccaneers-22.html

10+ drops in a game ring a bell
http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-have-bad-case-of-the-drops/article/2511955


Other than Pierre Garcon, and Santana Moss for the most part, all the other WR's had serious issues catching the ball this year. When we signed Pierre everyone laughed at us for signing a guy with bad hands for that much money, yet he was easily the most sure handed guy we had this year, that in itself should tell you something...

On top of the drops like I said before, a hobbled Pierre Garcon outproduced all of our WR's, and he played in just 7 games this year. That is simply pathetic. It doesn't take WR's three years to adjust to the NFL anymore. Rookie/2nd year guys make big impacts all the time now. With all of our "talented" WR's (Besides Garcon/Moss) none of them can even break 600 yards. Hankerson/Robinson/Briscoe/Morgan combined for a whopping 8 TD's this year...

So far combined in each of their first 2 seasons Robinson/Hankerson have accounted for 943 yards, and 6 TD's (I'm well aware that Hankerson got hurt in his rookie season, but he still only managed 167 receiving yards in his first 9 games where he was healthy).

That means that they have been healthy for 57 total games, and have given us 943 yards and 6 touchdowns. Lets look at what some other rookie/second year players have done:
AJ Green-2407 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Julio Jones- 2157 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Cecil Shorts- This season 979 yards 7tds coming out of a D3 school in 2nd year.
Randall Cobb-1466 yards 12tds through 2 seasons
Torrey Smith-1744 yards 15tds through 2 seasons+ Huge playoff games
Jeremy Kerley-1177 yards 4tds through 2 seasons
Denarius Moore-1415 yards 13tds through 2 seasons
Greg Little-1386 yards 6tds through 2 seasons
Titus Young-1021 yards 10tds only played 1.5 seasons
Doug Baldwin-1154 7tds through 2 seasons
(These are just guys in the same class as Robinson/Hankerson)
Victor Cruz-Didn't play as a rookie, but went for 1536 yards 9tds in his 2nd season 1092 yards 10tds in 3rd season.
Antonio Brown-1316 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Dez Bryant-1489 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Williams- 1735 yards 14tds in first 2 seasons
David Nelson- 1011 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Brandon LaFell- 1141 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Wallace- 2100 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Hakeem Nicks- 1842 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Jeremy Maclin- 1773 yards 14 tds in first 2 seasons
Johnny Knox- 1487 11tds in first 2 seasons
Percy Harvin- 1900 yards 15 tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Thomas- 1273 yards 5tds in first 2 seasons
Kenny Britt- 1476 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Michael Crabtree- 1366 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Desean Jackson- 2301 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Calvin Johnson- 2139 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Dwayne Bowe- 2017 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Ted Ginn- 1286 yards 7tds in first 2 seasons
Robert Meachem- 1113 13tds in first 2 seasons
This doesn't even count rookies from this past season that have already outperformed Hankerson/Robinson
I mean this list is just of people from the past 5-6 seasons that have greatly outproduced Hankerson/Robinson combined through 2 seasons, and I didn't even include guys like Steve Breaston who eclipsed 1,000 yards in his 2nd season. There are literally 40+ receivers in that time frame that have better production numbers through 2 seasons than the combination of Hankerson/Robinson.

With the draft having as much depth as it has in years at the WR position, it would be a terrible move for us to not take advantage of the talent pool, and get someone that can be a real threat opposite Garcon. We finally have a franchise QB, now we have to give him some real weapons to work with.

I mean seriously at this point outside of Garcon/Moss we basically have scrubs. Briscoe cut by TB, Morgan let go by San Fran, Robinson/Hankerson going into 3rd season with under 1000 yards, and 6tds combined.

You can say we have a balanced system all you want, but the truth is Garcon played extensively for 7 games this season not even at 100%, and put up numbers that would have put him on pace for 1,335 yards, and 9tds if he would have played at that rate for a full 16 game season. Which means when RG3 finally had a weapon at WR he utilized him.

You gotta remember our D improved a ton the last 7 games of the season. We only allowed 20ppg during that stretch in which we faced the super bowl champs, a surprisingly tough Cleveland Browns team, and 5 divisional games. 20ppg allowed would rank as the 8th best in the league, so we really improved on D a ton after the bye week.

We get 2 key defenders back next year which can only improve our D, and will likely get a couple people in the secondary throughout the draft. I feel some people are making it out to be a little worse than it actually is.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Errr. Are you really blasting our WR's?

WR's take 3 to 4 years before they normally hit their stride. If Aldrick and Leonard don't do anything of merit this year (which Leonard looks to at least be a serviceable number 2 with his progression over the last 2 years), than its talks of getting new guys in but for now...they're still in that tweener phase for WR's.


Yeah I am blasting our WR's. Hankerson has never impressed me that much since he came out of Miami. As stated before he just doesn't have consistent hands, doesn't get much separation, and seems like he's not as quick as he was before his injury.
You ignore facts buddy. Hankerson has started one game in his 19 games he's played in the NFL. He's been buried behind veteran WRs who have produced and an older coach who loves his veteran players to play, while he develops his young guys to take over when the time is right.

In 19 games Hankerson has shown he can be a valuable Possession WR. A possession WR is not one that gets much seperation, he never did before or after the injury because he's not a speed guy. He's a WR who goes across the middle, makes tough catches, gets first downs and keeps the chains moving. Think Art Monk, Michael Irvin, currently, Josh Morgan for us.

Hankerson plays the same position as Josh Morgan and last time I checked, Morgan played in all 16 games last year and led the team in receptions. This means, that Hankerson's chances were very limited because he was 4th on the depth chart behind three veterans, which I've said numerous times. And three veterans who produced in Garcon, Moss and Morgan.

If we drafted Goodwin, he would not take Hankerson's place because Goodwin does not play that postion. Goodwin would be battiling with Aldrick Robinson as Garon's back up.

Now do you really think a raw Goodwin is going to see many targets backing up a polished veteran WR in Garcon or a 3 year WR who was explosive last year for us in Robinson with 3 tds, two on huge pass plays and he was 2nd in the nfl with 21.5 yds per rec (for wrs with 10 catches or more)

Quote:
"The Skins lost 3 completions on drops by WR Leonard Hankerson and TE Niles Paul and a fall by Hankerson. The receivers need to help RG3 out more."
http://www.dcprosportsreport.com/washington-redskins/the-fifth-quarter/the-5th-quarter-redskins-24-buccaneers-22.html

10+ drops in a game ring a bell
http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-have-bad-case-of-the-drops/article/2511955
Yes, we know. Most hated the Wrs that week. That was only one week during the season though and it was one of the lowest points for the season. What you are leaving out is that a week before that Hankerson had 6 catches in a game we should have won vs the Giants and a month before that Hankerson had 7 catches in a win in Tampa Bay.

You can't just keep harping on the bad while forgetting the good games that Hank had when he got his opportunites to be a part of the offense.


Quote:
Other than Pierre Garcon, and Santana Moss for the most part, all the other WR's had serious issues catching the ball this year. When we signed Pierre everyone laughed at us for signing guy with bad hands for that much money, yet he was easily the most sure handed guy we had this year, that in itself should tell you something...
Garcon had a few drops on the season as well, the thing you are forgetting is that Garcon only played in 10 games. These other guys played in 16. I'm not going to sit here and say Hank's displayed the best hands in the world or Robinson but they are far from butterfingers. Hankerson had 38 receptions on the season. I'm not sure how many drops he had but he did have 57 targets (but that doesn't mean they were all drops, it just means they were thrown in his area) I'd ventrure to say off memory that Hank may have had in the neighborhood of 10 drops. Robinson probably had around 5.

It's not acceptable, but they are young and developing. They don't need to be replaced by another high draft pick just yet. If they get through their first contracts and they haven't earned a second contract from us because they haven't developed, then in 2015 you let them go in FA and you replace them in the draft or in FA.

Morgan has less than 5 drops all year, I know that's a fact. He had a few big ones in the Steelers game, but again it was one game after that game our WRs were much more consistent.

Quote:
On top of the drops like I said before, a hobbled Pierre Garcon outproduced all of our WR's, and he played in just 7 games this year. That is simply pathetic. It doesn't take WR's three years to adjust to the NFL anymore. Rookie/2nd year guys make big impacts all the time now. With all of our "talented" WR's (Besides Garcon/Moss) none of them can even break 600 yards. Hankerson/Robinson/Briscoe/Morgan combined for a whopping 8 TD's this year...
you are still missing the point. Hankerson, Robinson and Briscoe were burried on the depth chart behind Garcon, Moss and Morgan.

How can a player produce if he doesn't see reps because he a back up to a veteran?

It's impossible, and even so, when they got playing time, they did produce.

Hankerson is a possession WR, very rarely will you see him make a 68 yd TD like he did vs St Lousis. He's played in 19.5 games in the NFL, he's only started one game, yet he has 51 receptions, 706 yds, 3 tds and a 2 point conversion.

Quote:
So far combined in each of their first 2 seasons Robinson/Hankerson have accounted for 943 yards, and 6 TD's (I'm well aware that Hankerson got hurt in his rookie season, but he still only managed 167 receiving yards in his first 9 games where he was healthy).

That means that they have been healthy for 57 total games, and have given us 943 yards and 6 touchdowns. Lets look at what some other rookie/second year players have done:
AJ Green-2407 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Julio Jones- 2157 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Cecil Shorts- This season 979 yards 7tds coming out of a D3 school in 2nd year.
Randall Cobb-1466 yards 12tds through 2 seasons
Torrey Smith-1744 yards 15tds through 2 seasons+ Huge playoff games
Jeremy Kerley-1177 yards 4tds through 2 seasons
Denarius Moore-1415 yards 13tds through 2 seasons
Greg Little-1386 yards 6tds through 2 seasons
Titus Young-1021 yards 10tds only played 1.5 seasons
Doug Baldwin-1154 7tds through 2 seasons
(These are just guys in the same class as Robinson/Hankerson)
Victor Cruz-Didn't play as a rookie, but went for 1536 yards 9tds in his 2nd season 1092 yards 10tds in 3rd season.
Antonio Brown-1316 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Dez Bryant-1489 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Williams- 1735 yards 14tds in first 2 seasons
David Nelson- 1011 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Brandon LaFell- 1141 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Wallace- 2100 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Hakeem Nicks- 1842 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Jeremy Maclin- 1773 yards 14 tds in first 2 seasons
Johnny Knox- 1487 11tds in first 2 seasons
Percy Harvin- 1900 yards 15 tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Thomas- 1273 yards 5tds in first 2 seasons
Kenny Britt- 1476 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Michael Crabtree- 1366 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Desean Jackson- 2301 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Calvin Johnson- 2139 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Dwayne Bowe- 2017 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Ted Ginn- 1286 yards 7tds in first 2 seasons
Robert Meachem- 1113 13tds in first 2 seasons
This doesn't even count rookies from this past season that have already outperformed Hankerson/Robinson

I mean this list is just of people from the past 5-6 seasons that have greatly outproduced Hankerson/Robinson combined through 2 seasons, and I didn't even include guys like Steve Breaston who eclipsed 1,000 yards in his 2nd season. There are literally 40+ receivers in that time frame that have better production numbers through 2 seasons than the combination of Hankerson/Robinson.

With the draft having as much depth as it has in years at the WR position, it would be a terrible move for us not to not take advantage of the talent pool, and get someone that can be a real threat opposite Garcon. We finally have a franchise QB now we have to give him some real weapons to work with.
again, what you are totally ignoring is that in those two seasons neither Hankerson nor Robinson saw much playing time because we had veteran WRs. I really can't even believe a redskins fan would put together such a post in our forum.

All of those WRs you listed were either starters or had some games starting.

Aldrick Robinson has never started a game in the NFL, he was on the 2011 practice squad till the last few games of that season. His first real action in the NFL came just last year in 2012 and even then, he was used sparingly as a situational deep threat backing up Garcon and Moss.

Leonard Hankerson has started one game in the NFL. Even so, he has 51 receptions, 706 yds, 3 tds and a 2 point conversion. As our #4 WR each of his frist two years in the NFL.

Desmon Briscoe is another big bodied possession WR, he started a hand ful in 2011 for the Bucs and he had 35 catches and 6 Tds.

You are ignoring the truth in what is holding these young players back. The truth is they weren't high draft picks, they needed development and they were burried in the depth chart behind veteran WRs whom the offensive coaching staff trusted a lot.

Lastly!!! You continue to ignore that we threw the ball LESS than any other team i the NFL last season. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you throw the ball less it means less opportunites for your WRs to make plays, if they were in an offense that was first our WRs #s would be much higher.

If Garcon were healthy all year and we were pass first he'd have 70 to 80 receptions for 1200 to 1400 yds and 10 tds. We weren't like that though, we ran the ball more. We had more rushing TDs than almost all teams in the NFL.

If We threw the ball more Morgan (who was never 100% all year) would have 60-70 catches for 700-800 yds and a 4-6 tds.

If we threw the ball more Moss (who was our #3 wr) would have 50-60 recs, 700-900 yds and 10 Tds.

If we threw the ball more Hank (who was our #4 Wr) would have 40-50 recs, 600 to 700 yds and 4 tds.

You see. What you are doing is ignoring the chances that are wrs are getting to make plays. Our offense is a run first offense, we threw the ball less than any team in the NFL last year = less chances for our WRs and TEs to make plays. Also, Hankerson, Robinson and Briscoe were our #4, 5 and 6 WRs. They were burried behind three veterans and didn't get consistent playing time all season.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Errr. Are you really blasting our WR's?

WR's take 3 to 4 years before they normally hit their stride. If Aldrick and Leonard don't do anything of merit this year (which Leonard looks to at least be a serviceable number 2 with his progression over the last 2 years), than its talks of getting new guys in but for now...they're still in that tweener phase for WR's.


Yeah I am blasting our WR's. Hankerson has never impressed me that much since he came out of Miami. As stated before he just doesn't have consistent hands, doesn't get much separation, and seems like he's not as quick as he was before his injury.
You ignore facts buddy. Hankerson has started one game in his 19 games he's played in the NFL. He's been buried behind veteran WRs who have produced and an older coach who loves his veteran players to play, while he develops his young guys to take over when the time is right.

In 19 games Hankerson has shown he can be a valuable Possession WR. A possession WR is not one that gets much seperation, he never did before or after the injury because he's not a speed guy. He's a WR who goes across the middle, makes tough catches, gets first downs and keeps the chains moving. Think Art Monk, Michael Irvin, currently, Josh Morgan for us.

Hankerson plays the same position as Josh Morgan and last time I checked, Morgan played in all 16 games last year and led the team in receptions. This means, that Hankerson's chances were very limited because he was 4th on the depth chart behind three veterans, which I've said numerous times. And three veterans who produced in Garcon, Moss and Morgan.

If we drafted Goodwin, he would not take Hankerson's place because Goodwin does not play that postion. Goodwin would be battiling with Aldrick Robinson as Garon's back up.

Now do you really think a raw Goodwin is going to see many targets backing up a polished veteran WR in Garcon or a 3 year WR who was explosive last year for us in Robinson with 3 tds, two on huge pass plays and he was 2nd in the nfl with 21.5 yds per rec (for wrs with 10 catches or more)

Quote:
"The Skins lost 3 completions on drops by WR Leonard Hankerson and TE Niles Paul and a fall by Hankerson. The receivers need to help RG3 out more."
http://www.dcprosportsreport.com/washington-redskins/the-fifth-quarter/the-5th-quarter-redskins-24-buccaneers-22.html

10+ drops in a game ring a bell
http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-have-bad-case-of-the-drops/article/2511955
Yes, we know. Most hated the Wrs that week. That was only one week during the season though and it was one of the lowest points for the season. What you are leaving out is that a week before that Hankerson had 6 catches in a game we should have won vs the Giants and a month before that Hankerson had 7 catches in a win in Tampa Bay.

You can't just keep harping on the bad while forgetting the good games that Hank had when he got his opportunites to be a part of the offense.


Quote:
Other than Pierre Garcon, and Santana Moss for the most part, all the other WR's had serious issues catching the ball this year. When we signed Pierre everyone laughed at us for signing guy with bad hands for that much money, yet he was easily the most sure handed guy we had this year, that in itself should tell you something...
Garcon had a few drops on the season as well, the thing you are forgetting is that Garcon only played in 10 games. These other guys played in 16. I'm not going to sit here and say Hank's displayed the best hands in the world or Robinson but they are far from butterfingers. Hankerson had 38 receptions on the season. I'm not sure how many drops he had but he did have 57 targets (but that doesn't mean they were all drops, it just means they were thrown in his area) I'd ventrure to say off memory that Hank may have had in the neighborhood of 10 drops. Robinson probably had around 5.

It's not acceptable, but they are young and developing. They don't need to be replaced by another high draft pick just yet. If they get through their first contracts and they haven't earned a second contract from us because they haven't developed, then in 2015 you let them go in FA and you replace them in the draft or in FA.

Morgan has less than 5 drops all year, I know that's a fact. He had a few big ones in the Steelers game, but again it was one game after that game our WRs were much more consistent.

Quote:
On top of the drops like I said before, a hobbled Pierre Garcon outproduced all of our WR's, and he played in just 7 games this year. That is simply pathetic. It doesn't take WR's three years to adjust to the NFL anymore. Rookie/2nd year guys make big impacts all the time now. With all of our "talented" WR's (Besides Garcon/Moss) none of them can even break 600 yards. Hankerson/Robinson/Briscoe/Morgan combined for a whopping 8 TD's this year...
you are still missing the point. Hankerson, Robinson and Briscoe were burried on the depth chart behind Garcon, Moss and Morgan.

How can a player produce if he doesn't see reps because he a back up to a veteran?

It's impossible, and even so, when they got playing time, they did produce.

Hankerson is a possession WR, very rarely will you see him make a 68 yd TD like he did vs St Lousis. He's played in 19.5 games in the NFL, he's only started one game, yet he has 51 receptions, 706 yds, 3 tds and a 2 point conversion.

Quote:
So far combined in each of their first 2 seasons Robinson/Hankerson have accounted for 943 yards, and 6 TD's (I'm well aware that Hankerson got hurt in his rookie season, but he still only managed 167 receiving yards in his first 9 games where he was healthy).

That means that they have been healthy for 57 total games, and have given us 943 yards and 6 touchdowns. Lets look at what some other rookie/second year players have done:
AJ Green-2407 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Julio Jones- 2157 yards 18tds through 2 seasons
Cecil Shorts- This season 979 yards 7tds coming out of a D3 school in 2nd year.
Randall Cobb-1466 yards 12tds through 2 seasons
Torrey Smith-1744 yards 15tds through 2 seasons+ Huge playoff games
Jeremy Kerley-1177 yards 4tds through 2 seasons
Denarius Moore-1415 yards 13tds through 2 seasons
Greg Little-1386 yards 6tds through 2 seasons
Titus Young-1021 yards 10tds only played 1.5 seasons
Doug Baldwin-1154 7tds through 2 seasons
(These are just guys in the same class as Robinson/Hankerson)
Victor Cruz-Didn't play as a rookie, but went for 1536 yards 9tds in his 2nd season 1092 yards 10tds in 3rd season.
Antonio Brown-1316 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Dez Bryant-1489 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Williams- 1735 yards 14tds in first 2 seasons
David Nelson- 1011 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Brandon LaFell- 1141 yards 4tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Wallace- 2100 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Hakeem Nicks- 1842 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Jeremy Maclin- 1773 yards 14 tds in first 2 seasons
Johnny Knox- 1487 11tds in first 2 seasons
Percy Harvin- 1900 yards 15 tds in first 2 seasons
Mike Thomas- 1273 yards 5tds in first 2 seasons
Kenny Britt- 1476 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Michael Crabtree- 1366 yards 8tds in first 2 seasons
Desean Jackson- 2301 yards 16tds in first 2 seasons
Calvin Johnson- 2139 yards 17tds in first 2 seasons
Dwayne Bowe- 2017 yards 12tds in first 2 seasons
Ted Ginn- 1286 yards 7tds in first 2 seasons
Robert Meachem- 1113 13tds in first 2 seasons
This doesn't even count rookies from this past season that have already outperformed Hankerson/Robinson

I mean this list is just of people from the past 5-6 seasons that have greatly outproduced Hankerson/Robinson combined through 2 seasons, and I didn't even include guys like Steve Breaston who eclipsed 1,000 yards in his 2nd season. There are literally 40+ receivers in that time frame that have better production numbers through 2 seasons than the combination of Hankerson/Robinson.

With the draft having as much depth as it has in years at the WR position, it would be a terrible move for us not to not take advantage of the talent pool, and get someone that can be a real threat opposite Garcon. We finally have a franchise QB now we have to give him some real weapons to work with.
again, what you are totally ignoring is that in those two seasons neither Hankerson nor Robinson saw much playing time because we had veteran WRs. I really can't even believe a redskins fan would put together such a post in our forum.

All of those WRs you listed were either starters or had some games starting.

Aldrick Robinson has never started a game in the NFL, he was on the 2011 practice squad till the last few games of that season. His first real action in the NFL came just last year in 2012 and even then, he was used sparingly as a situational deep threat backing up Garcon and Moss.

Leonard Hankerson has started one game in the NFL. Even so, he has 51 receptions, 706 yds, 3 tds and a 2 point conversion. As our #4 WR each of his frist two years in the NFL.

Desmon Briscoe is another big bodied possession WR, he started a hand ful in 2011 for the Bucs and he had 35 catches and 6 Tds.

You are ignoring the truth in what is holding these young players back. The truth is they weren't high draft picks, they needed development and they were burried in the depth chart behind veteran WRs whom the offensive coaching staff trusted a lot.

Lastly!!! You continue to ignore that we threw the ball LESS than any other team i the NFL last season. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you throw the ball less it means less opportunites for your WRs to make plays, if they were in an offense that was first our WRs #s would be much higher.

If Garcon were healthy all year and we were pass first he'd have 70 to 80 receptions for 1200 to 1400 yds and 10 tds. We weren't like that though, we ran the ball more. We had more rushing TDs than almost all teams in the NFL.

If We threw the ball more Morgan (who was never 100% all year) would have 60-70 catches for 700-800 yds and a 4-6 tds.

If we threw the ball more Moss (who was our #3 wr) would have 50-60 recs, 700-900 yds and 10 Tds.

If we threw the ball more Hank (who was our #4 Wr) would have 40-50 recs, 600 to 700 yds and 4 tds.

You see. What you are doing is ignoring the chances that are wrs are getting to make plays. Our offense is a run first offense, we threw the ball less than any team in the NFL last year = less chances for our WRs and TEs to make plays. Also, Hankerson, Robinson and Briscoe were our #4, 5 and 6 WRs. They were burried behind three veterans and didn't get consistent playing time all season.


So if Shanny likes to only play veterans, and let young guys learn...why did RG3/Alfred Morris...open the season as starters??? Why did Cousins get the nod over Grossman when RG3 went down if he wants vets to play?

It's because he puts the guys in that he feels give the best chance to win. You are ignoring the cold hard facts. I made that long list that clearly showed that if you have talent in the NFL you will get playing time/produce more than what Robinson/Hankerson have. If a guy like Cecil Shorts can put up 1000 yard season in just his second year coming out of Mount Union with no QB help, Hankerson/Robinson have no excuse.

As for us bringing in a rookie WR, I absolutely do feel that they would be able to start/get considerable playing time right away. For example, my number 1 target for us at WR is Justin Hunter who would no doubt take Morgan's spot opposite Garcon, and would leave Moss as our slot receiver. If feel that forms a hell of a trio for the next season or two, and great duo for year to come once Moss retires.

In 5 seasons Morgan has managed to get 2274 yards, and 11tds. If you look at my list of what guys have accomplished in just 2 years, he is definitely not someone I'd want to have as my number 2 receiver.

Simply put good WR's make plays. As mentioned before Garcon got extensive playing time in only 7 games this year, but managed to get 580 yards and 4tds in those 7 games (16 game avg with those numbers 1300 yards, and 9tds). Which means he was the only WR that consistently made plays for us this year. We played a different style of ball with him in the lineup, and became more balanced as an offense since RG3 had a weapon to throw to.

Pierre Garcon led the team in receiving in ALL 7 games (1st game/final 6 games of the season) in which he got extensive playing time. The worst part is there were 3 games in that stretch where the next leading receiver had under 30 yards receiving (17 yards, 26 yards, 22 yards). It clearly showed that Garcon was the only guy we had last year that could make plays consistently. In order to be a good receiver in this league you have to be able to make plays consistently. They had one of the most efficient QB's in the league throwing to them last year in RG3, so it's not like there is an excuse of erratic QB play or anything of that nature.

Basically we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one as I saw all I needed to see out of our WR's last year, and want us to add another one through the draft. All I know is I can't wait for draft day! I trust our front office they made some great move last offseason, and hopefully we have another solid one this year. The good news is we are on the upswing while the rest of the NFC East is aging/going the opposite direction Very Happy
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the good news is you are wrong and we won't be taking a wr high in the draft. We will fix the areas of the team where we actually need upgrades- DB, RT and depth at ILB and, OLB.

If we draft Hunter, who's our starting FS?

I also think we are going to cut Moss if he wont agree to reduce his salary. I wouldn't count on him remaining with us next year.

This will make our entire team better and not just one position group on the team which we've spent a lot of $ and resources on upgrading the past two offseasons. Re-signing Moss, two draft picks (Hankerosn & Robinson) three FA pick ups Garcon, Morgan and Briscoe.

We've addressed the WR position for now. Now it's time to move on to the next fix of the team. The secondary and RT positons.

As for why RG3 started? Seriously??? I mean is that an honest question?

And the reason Morris got to start was first because of injuries to Hightower (knee), Helu (heel/Achillies) and Royster (knee).

When Morris got to start he made the most of it and made it so it was impossible to bench him and the guys originally in front of him (but Royster) didn't make the team (Hightower) or in Helu's case went on IR for the season with his Achillies injury.

Our Young wrs have barely gotten opportunities to start because last year Garcon only missed a handful of games and Moss and Morgan didnt miss any.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
still not a fan of taking a WR that high, there is nothing wrong with our current WR core. It's the best group we've had in 20 years, and they will only be better next year if Garcon stays healthy all year, Morgan gets closer to 100% and Hank, Robinson and Briscoe will only improve.

No need for Hunter in my eyes. I'd defitely take a DB or RT there and one will be worthy of taking.

I'd consider taking a WR in the late rounds.

I like this much better:

Round 2, #51: Phillip Thomas, FS Fresno St (it seems sites have adjusted and Ace was right)

Round 3, #85: Leon McFadden, CB SD St

Round 4, #116: Marcus Wheaton, WR Oregon St

Round 5, #147: Kevin Reddick, ILB UNC

Round 5, #155: Kyle Long, OT, Oregon

Round 6, # 181: Cornelius Washington, OLB, Georgia

Round 7, #211: Dennis Johnson, RB, Arkansas

tyler735 wrote:

If we could sign in the offseason:
Keenen Lewis, Sean Smith, or Sebastian Vollmer, Andre Smith
currently with the way our salary cap is, we can NOT afford these players. We are 4 million over the cap. I'm sure we will take the neccessary steps to sign a few FA upgrades, but I'm not sure we can get these caliber of guys without making some hard cuts like Fletcher. Also, Andre Smith is not athletic enough to fit into the ZBS, I think that's a bad fit for our system.

Quote:
Leodis McKelvin for CB and Ryan Harris for RT
McKelvin as a #3 cb is a good move. Ryan Harris is a cheap move at RT that I can see us doing and he can compete with Compton, a draft pick and probably Polumbus for the starting RT job.


Quote:
We would pretty much have all of our weaknesses covered with this draft/those signings, and have a legit championship contender for years to come. Plus we got young guys on the roster that could potentially help at CB/O-line: Chase Minnifield, Richard Crawford, Tom Compton, Josh Leribeus, and Adam Gettis.
I agree.


Can't say I am a big fan of that draft. I'm not overly concerned about CB for us. I think restructuring Hall, keeping Wilson, signing McKelvin, drafting a guy like Greg Reid/Tyrann Matheiu/Brandon Mcgee, and giving Chase Minnifield a shot is the better option at this point than taking a guy like Mcfadden in the 3rd. I just don't see Mcfadden as an upgrade over what we currently have.
I don't think he is as talented as Hall, Wilson, McKelvin, Reid, Matheiu, Minnifield. Obviously Reid/Matheiu/Minnifield all have questions at this point, but have much more talent than Mcfadden at the position. I just don't see him as a starter for us now or in the future, and think with limited draft picks we should target players that can make a real difference for us in the draft especially in the 3rd round.

One thing you can't forget is that our DB's played a little better down the stretch compared to the first half of the year. We also have Orakpo/Carriker coming back from injury which is huge, and will have a big impact on the DB's as they will help get pressure on the QB, which in turn makes the DB's jobs much easier.

As for the Phillip Thomas pick I do like him and think he is going to be a solid safety, and would be happy if we got him as he could start day 1, but I think Rambo is just as talented, and should be able to be picked up in the 3rd round.

Wheaton in the 4th just isn't going to happen. He at worst gets picked in the 3rd at this point after having a big year, and a heck of a week at the senior bowl. After the combine I would be surprised if he isn't a lock for the second round. He also doesn't add to our offense what Hunter would if we could get him in the second. Hunter has the size to give us a jump ball receiver, and the speed to get down field on the deep ball, and he is also a great redzone threat unlike Wheaton. Don't get me wrong I like Wheaton, but I just think Hunter brings more to the team that we don't currently have. If we did manage Wheaton in the 4th I would be very happy, but I don't see him going past the 2nd/early 3rd round.

I originally had Reddick with that pick in the 5th, and Shamarko Thomas in the 4th. Of the two players I actually would rather have Thomas, as I think he would be our SS of the future, and would probably take him in the 4th if he was on the board. His stock is going to soar after the combine, so I doubt he will be available in the 5th round. As for Reddick I doubt he makes it to the 5th round, but if he does I would be very excited to have him on the team, and think we could potentially use him to replace Fletcher, or at the very least be solid depth for years to come.

I would much rather take the risk on a guy like Lattimore. He has the potential to be a great player, and could help give us a very good RB duo with Alfred Morris, or we could even use him as trade bait if he shows he's back to pre-injury form. Either way I like him more than Kyle Long. I would rather give our young O-line guys a chance that we picked last year instead of picking up a guy who likely won't be much more than depth on the line. If Lattimore isn't available here I would also consider a guy like Cierre Wood/Kenjon Barner if either of them were available at this spot.

I think taking a CB in the 6th that has the talent to make a difference (Mathieu/Reid) is a better choice than a depth outside linebacker like Washington

In the seventh I wouldn't mind taking a look at Dennis Johnson/Knile Davis/Chris Thompson/Michael Ford if we don't pick up one of the guys I mentioned in the 5th.

With the free agents I do agree we would definitely have to do some restructuring, and the more I think about it Andre Smith likely wouldn't be a good candidate to fill RT for us, as he does have a different play style for our scheme.
I think you're the only person in this forum who doesn't approve of a mock draft like I presented.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Actually the good news is you are wrong and we won't be taking a wr high in the draft. We will fix the areas of the team where we actually need upgrades- DB, RT and depth at ILB and, OLB.

If we draft Hunter, who's our starting FS?

I also think we are going to cut Moss if he wont agree to reduce his salary. I wouldn't count on him remaining with us next year.

This will make our entire team better and not just one position group on the team which we've spent a lot of $ and resources on upgrading the past two offseasons. Re-signing Moss, two draft picks (Hankerosn & Robinson) three FA pick ups Garcon, Morgan and Briscoe.

We've addressed the WR position for now. Now it's time to move on to the next fix of the team. The secondary and RT positons.

As for why RG3 started? Seriously??? I mean is that an honest question?

And the reason Morris got to start was first because of injuries to Hightower (knee), Helu (heel/Achillies) and Royster (knee).

When Morris got to start he made the most of it and made it so it was impossible to bench him and the guys originally in front of him (but Royster) didn't make the team (Hightower) or in Helu's case went on IR for the season with his Achillies injury.

Our Young wrs have barely gotten opportunities to start because last year Garcon only missed a handful of games and Moss and Morgan didnt miss any.

"Actually the good news is you are wrong and we won't be taking a wr high in the draft."

Whatever you say champ Laughing

If we draft Hunter we still have a good shot at Rambo/Swearinger in the 3rd, and wouldn't mind trading up a few picks to get one of them (it would cost us a late round pick this year or next year to move up in the 3rd).

If we cut Moss we will almost for sure be looking at a slot guy in the draft to replace him...

Yeah that was basically refuting your point that Shanny doesn't play rookies. He was comfortable starting the season with a rookie QB, and even had a rookie QB as a backup...your point doesn't exist. Shanny has no problem letting talented players play.

You keep ignoring the fact that Garcon only played at the end of the season, and made plays in every game he played in. None of our young "talented" receivers did the same. Maybe a play here and a play there throughout the season. It's called taking advantage of your opportunities...like what RG3/Morris did this season, or most of those receivers on the list I made that have outproduced our guys. It only proves that the WR's were given chances you said yourself Morris only started because of injuries, yet when given the opportunity he made it so Shanny couldn't take him out.

Didn't have opportunities??? They've had two full seasons each worth of opportunities. What do you think happens during practice, preseason, and playing in games...those are called opportunities. Our good players have all had no problem making the most of their opportunities (RG3, Morris, Garcon, Davis, and Cousins). Garcon essentially missed 9 GAMES THIS YEAR. Morgan was hobbled, and Moss sure wasn't out there every play. Heck we even lost Fred Davis, which opened up even more opportunity for them to make plays in his absence. They had all sorts of chances to make plays, and dropped multiple big plays that they should have made when given their chances this year. I mean even on Hankerson's td against the Rams he almost dropped it.

You act as if Morgan is some sort of great receiver that had the position locked down, but he never has been that good, and never will be. We are talking about a guy that has played 5 seasons and never even hit 700 yards in a season. Hell even colossal busts like Ted Ginn have done that. Sorry but that doesn't scream number 2 receiver to me...

Maybe they improve a little next year, but I just don't see Hankerson being much better than Morgan, who in todays NFL is not even an average number 2 receiver. Robinson is a guy that I think could be a solid deep threat if he improved his hands, but he doesn't add much else besides that, and improving his hands is a big "if" at this point. Right now he isn't much different than a guy like Troy Williamson, who could get open deep, but had bad drop issues, and was out of the league within 4-5 years because of it.

As for your mock draft, if we could get all of those guys minus Mcfadden, I would be perfectly happy with the draft. If you switched Wheaton to the 3rd pick instead of Mcfadden, and had us take Shamarko Thomas/Tyrann Mathieu in the 4th I'd be very happy with that draft. Wheaton won't last til the end of the 4th. He will likely be round 2/3. You act like I don't wanna improve the secondary, but every mock I do has us taking 2-3 guys that have starter potential in the secondary.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyler. The problem with our passing game is we run the ball more than everyone else in the NFL. So that takes away opportunities for our wrs to put up bigger stats. You still overlooked that main point.

If Morgan was healthy and we threw the ball as much as the Patriots or Saints all our wrs would have 5 to 10 more receptions at the least. The truth is that last year we ran the ball the most in the NFL.

You could be right about Hank, Briscoe and Robinson but almost everyone in redskins nation wants to give them all a second year as being active players on our roster to find out. The truth is, Robinson was a practice squad player in 2011, Hank was barely active and the he got active had 8 catches in 2.5 quarters and injured his hip. Briscoe showed up on our roster in the summer and was behind all the vets who had been here for years like moss or for 3 months like Garcon and Morgan. briscoe was behind our young guys who had been here a year learning the system.

I just don't understand how anyone can't see this and see that these 3 young wrs haven't had many opportunities to prove themselves. Yeah, they've had some but not many. We've had better veteran options, that the shanahans like more at wr, everyone knows that Garcon, Moss and Morgan are more polished wrs than 3 guys who are like rookies in terms of playing time in their NFL careers. I'm really not convinced anyone we take in round 2 or 3 of this drsft will come in and be better players than Hank, Briscoe or Robinson right away and the 3 I mentioned have been on this team for one or two years developing.

Lastly, I don't have a problem taking a wr in this draft but I don't believe that a wr is more important than upgrading our secondary. So that's why I never like any of your mocks that have us taking wr in round 2. If you had us taking the best available safety 1st and then a cb/rt in round 3 and a wr in round 4 or 5 I could live with that. You won't do that though because you are fixated on drafting one of two wrs (Hunter or Goodwin) and have been for a few months.

Put it this way, you want the BA WR in round 2 in this draft and have made that point very, very clear. Almost everyone else in reddskins nation wants the best available DB in round 2. Why?

Our Wrs are a good group 1-6, not "great" ( I know that) but "good", the best mix of veteran Wrs and young Wrs we've had in 20 years since the Posse was split up.

Our free safety play and depth at cb is pitiful. So it boggles my mind that someone would want the #5 or 6 wr in the draft, rather than the #4 or 5 S or cb prospect.

And that that poster is ok with settling for the # 7-10 safety prospect in round 3, which is the position we need an upgrade at talent at the most on our team just so we can get a new wr in round 2 who won't start over the guys we have now.
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BuckleyBoy


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Actually the good news is you are wrong and we won't be taking a wr high in the draft. We will fix the areas of the team where we actually need upgrades- DB, RT and depth at ILB and, OLB.

If we draft Hunter, who's our starting FS?

I also think we are going to cut Moss if he wont agree to reduce his salary. I wouldn't count on him remaining with us next year.

This will make our entire team better and not just one position group on the team which we've spent a lot of $ and resources on upgrading the past two offseasons. Re-signing Moss, two draft picks (Hankerosn & Robinson) three FA pick ups Garcon, Morgan and Briscoe.

We've addressed the WR position for now. Now it's time to move on to the next fix of the team. The secondary and RT positons.

As for why RG3 started? Seriously??? I mean is that an honest question?

And the reason Morris got to start was first because of injuries to Hightower (knee), Helu (heel/Achillies) and Royster (knee).

When Morris got to start he made the most of it and made it so it was impossible to bench him and the guys originally in front of him (but Royster) didn't make the team (Hightower) or in Helu's case went on IR for the season with his Achillies injury.

Our Young wrs have barely gotten opportunities to start because last year Garcon only missed a handful of games and Moss and Morgan didnt miss any.


I wouldn't be so sure of the bolded part......
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