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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11926
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
I hate when teams draft old rookies, more specifcally in the early rounds cause they have probably hit there peak. No 26 year old rookie for us.


To be fair, guy has only played organized football for four years. He was an Olympic hopeful for Estonia, but lost his funding; SMU HC June Jones saw this freak in the weight room, knew his money was slowly dripping to an end, offered him a football scholarship pretty much after his first meeting...and now, Hunt is considered a late 1st rounder.

That being said - this rise is eerily similar to what we saw from Dontari Poe last season. For the most part, Poe was a pretty mediocre NT for Memphis, didn't do anything in games that made you take notice...but 45x225 plus a 4.6 40 yard dash later, people (including myself and the KC Chiefs) were quick to state that Poe was the best NT in the draft. Question on the lack of production be damned, murmurs on having a low end motor and no work ethic were quickly ignored when he lifted the RCA Dome while sprinting against a cheetah. That's the combine for you, I guess.

Now, I am not stating that Hunt has the same issues - nobody has questioned a former Olympic hopeful in regards to his work ethic, or his motor. With Hunt, it's all about his knowledge, his football IQ. As stated earlier - most guys in this draft had as much experience as Hunt had going in to high school, let alone the NFL. Even for his age, Hunt is VERY raw. The tools are there, and they are there in ways that you don't see in someone that size...but it will take a lot of patience and coaching to get him to play to those skills.

All in all - the Planet Theory (coined by Bill Parcells and George Allen) dictates that he should be a 1st round pick. There are only so many people on the planet that represent such a size/strength/speed combo, and even if it's raw, it is something that is rare. You don't overthink it, you take him and go. IF he can land on a team that has the luxury of bringing him along slowly, letting him get the speed and power of the NFL trenches in small spoonfuls, all while correcting any bad habits he's picked up in his four years, they'll have a very good player on their hands. If say someone like Rod Marinelli or Jim Washburn (DC/DL coaches with THAT level of experience) get their hands on Hunt - he will be a MONSTER, just a guy who will crush opposing OL when the ball is snapped.

It will all depend on who gets him, honestly. The potential and work ethic is there to be good, great even. However, the lack of experience is there to see this guy bust in a bad way. He's the definition of a boom/bust pick.


I think Bill Kollar and the Texans DL group could get a helluva lot out of him. I'm kinda pullin for us to take him in round 1. Plus he'd give us leverage with Antonio Smith's contract up next year, and if he works at it there's no doubt his ceiling is higher than Antonio's. Pairing Hunt (who blocked 17 kicks in his college career) with Watt (who blocked 16 passes last season) in our front could lay the foundation for a superbowl team.


I love Margus Hunt as a prospect, but I liked him more when I thought he could, perhaps, be an early 3rd day pick to start on special teams and slowly work into third down situations until he could start. I don't want another 5-tech in the 1st round right now.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
I hate when teams draft old rookies, more specifcally in the early rounds cause they have probably hit there peak. No 26 year old rookie for us.


To be fair, guy has only played organized football for four years. He was an Olympic hopeful for Estonia, but lost his funding; SMU HC June Jones saw this freak in the weight room, knew his money was slowly dripping to an end, offered him a football scholarship pretty much after his first meeting...and now, Hunt is considered a late 1st rounder.

That being said - this rise is eerily similar to what we saw from Dontari Poe last season. For the most part, Poe was a pretty mediocre NT for Memphis, didn't do anything in games that made you take notice...but 45x225 plus a 4.6 40 yard dash later, people (including myself and the KC Chiefs) were quick to state that Poe was the best NT in the draft. Question on the lack of production be damned, murmurs on having a low end motor and no work ethic were quickly ignored when he lifted the RCA Dome while sprinting against a cheetah. That's the combine for you, I guess.

Now, I am not stating that Hunt has the same issues - nobody has questioned a former Olympic hopeful in regards to his work ethic, or his motor. With Hunt, it's all about his knowledge, his football IQ. As stated earlier - most guys in this draft had as much experience as Hunt had going in to high school, let alone the NFL. Even for his age, Hunt is VERY raw. The tools are there, and they are there in ways that you don't see in someone that size...but it will take a lot of patience and coaching to get him to play to those skills.

All in all - the Planet Theory (coined by Bill Parcells and George Allen) dictates that he should be a 1st round pick. There are only so many people on the planet that represent such a size/strength/speed combo, and even if it's raw, it is something that is rare. You don't overthink it, you take him and go. IF he can land on a team that has the luxury of bringing him along slowly, letting him get the speed and power of the NFL trenches in small spoonfuls, all while correcting any bad habits he's picked up in his four years, they'll have a very good player on their hands. If say someone like Rod Marinelli or Jim Washburn (DC/DL coaches with THAT level of experience) get their hands on Hunt - he will be a MONSTER, just a guy who will crush opposing OL when the ball is snapped.

It will all depend on who gets him, honestly. The potential and work ethic is there to be good, great even. However, the lack of experience is there to see this guy bust in a bad way. He's the definition of a boom/bust pick.


I think Bill Kollar and the Texans DL group could get a helluva lot out of him. I'm kinda pullin for us to take him in round 1. Plus he'd give us leverage with Antonio Smith's contract up next year, and if he works at it there's no doubt his ceiling is higher than Antonio's. Pairing Hunt (who blocked 17 kicks in his college career) with Watt (who blocked 16 passes last season) in our front could lay the foundation for a superbowl team.


I love Margus Hunt as a prospect, but I liked him more when I thought he could, perhaps, be an early 3rd day pick to start on special teams and slowly work into third down situations until he could start. I don't want another 5-tech in the 1st round right now.


Bingo. Early 3rd day? Yes, please. Heck, I'd even take a gamble on a late 2nd day pick, maybe the comp pick we're due for Mario Williams. But 1st? No way, not at ALL.

If this team had no glaring holes and he was the BPA at 27, then...well, even then I'd have my reservations. Thing is, this team has some holes that it needs to fill, so spending it on a project player who will be the 4th person on the DE DC doesn't fill any hole.
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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
kenney wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
I hate when teams draft old rookies, more specifcally in the early rounds cause they have probably hit there peak. No 26 year old rookie for us.


To be fair, guy has only played organized football for four years. He was an Olympic hopeful for Estonia, but lost his funding; SMU HC June Jones saw this freak in the weight room, knew his money was slowly dripping to an end, offered him a football scholarship pretty much after his first meeting...and now, Hunt is considered a late 1st rounder.

That being said - this rise is eerily similar to what we saw from Dontari Poe last season. For the most part, Poe was a pretty mediocre NT for Memphis, didn't do anything in games that made you take notice...but 45x225 plus a 4.6 40 yard dash later, people (including myself and the KC Chiefs) were quick to state that Poe was the best NT in the draft. Question on the lack of production be damned, murmurs on having a low end motor and no work ethic were quickly ignored when he lifted the RCA Dome while sprinting against a cheetah. That's the combine for you, I guess.

Now, I am not stating that Hunt has the same issues - nobody has questioned a former Olympic hopeful in regards to his work ethic, or his motor. With Hunt, it's all about his knowledge, his football IQ. As stated earlier - most guys in this draft had as much experience as Hunt had going in to high school, let alone the NFL. Even for his age, Hunt is VERY raw. The tools are there, and they are there in ways that you don't see in someone that size...but it will take a lot of patience and coaching to get him to play to those skills.

All in all - the Planet Theory (coined by Bill Parcells and George Allen) dictates that he should be a 1st round pick. There are only so many people on the planet that represent such a size/strength/speed combo, and even if it's raw, it is something that is rare. You don't overthink it, you take him and go. IF he can land on a team that has the luxury of bringing him along slowly, letting him get the speed and power of the NFL trenches in small spoonfuls, all while correcting any bad habits he's picked up in his four years, they'll have a very good player on their hands. If say someone like Rod Marinelli or Jim Washburn (DC/DL coaches with THAT level of experience) get their hands on Hunt - he will be a MONSTER, just a guy who will crush opposing OL when the ball is snapped.

It will all depend on who gets him, honestly. The potential and work ethic is there to be good, great even. However, the lack of experience is there to see this guy bust in a bad way. He's the definition of a boom/bust pick.


I think Bill Kollar and the Texans DL group could get a helluva lot out of him. I'm kinda pullin for us to take him in round 1. Plus he'd give us leverage with Antonio Smith's contract up next year, and if he works at it there's no doubt his ceiling is higher than Antonio's. Pairing Hunt (who blocked 17 kicks in his college career) with Watt (who blocked 16 passes last season) in our front could lay the foundation for a superbowl team.


I love Margus Hunt as a prospect, but I liked him more when I thought he could, perhaps, be an early 3rd day pick to start on special teams and slowly work into third down situations until he could start. I don't want another 5-tech in the 1st round right now.


Bingo. Early 3rd day? Yes, please. Heck, I'd even take a gamble on a late 2nd day pick, maybe the comp pick we're due for Mario Williams. But 1st? No way, not at ALL.

If this team had no glaring holes and he was the BPA at 27, then...well, even then I'd have my reservations. Thing is, this team has some holes that it needs to fill, so spending it on a project player who will be the 4th person on the DE DC doesn't fill any hole.


This is a shortsighted way of looking at it. He'd probably start off 3rd on our depth chart, rotating in situationally, kinda like last year's first round pick...

Then next year Antonio Smith's contract is up, we save a buncha money on a young freak DE to replace him with.

How is everyone not on board with drafting this dude??
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because he is extremely raw, and only been playing football for 5 years. If we can get him in the 4th, but it would be a reach of extrordinary proportions to think about hin in the 1st or 2nd. Smith is one of the veteran leader for the defense that you can't account for other than in the locker room.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
This is a shortsighted way of looking at it. He'd probably start off 3rd on our depth chart, rotating in situationally, kinda like last year's first round pick...

Last year, the holes this team had were not nearly as glaring as they are now. This team is treading water if we go in with an offense that only features Andre Johnson and Arian Foster running behind an OL that isn't as good as it was in prior years; Finding that #2 WR, someone who is a RZ threat has to be the first order of business for the Texans, and going the same route of hoping on some 3rd round pick to fill that need is going to leave us in the same situation as last year, and the year before.

Quote:
Then next year Antonio Smith's contract is up, we save a buncha money on a young freak DE to replace him with.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with Apollo - why do you want to be without Smith, who is coming off of his two best seasons as a pro and is the vocal leader of this defense? As soon as his PLAY dictates a replacement, we should replace him. Don't let some arbitrary age get in the way of a guy who was our 2nd best defender last year.

Quote:
How is everyone not on board with drafting this dude??

I listed out two reasons, but the major reason: When in this guy's football career has he been anything more than a semi-decent player? His entire career at SMU, he's been a mediocre player, and it isn't as if SMU is playing some dominant teams in that timeframe. Why didn't the guy light it up against sub standard competetion?

Also - If you look at the guy on a game-by-game basis, you'll see someone who didn't really play consistently. He'd have a 2-3 sack game where he's all over the place (against Rice, no less) and then you wouldn't even notice him for 4-5 straight games. The guy is a picture of inconsistency, and that is why he wasn't even believed to be a 4th rounder until he blew up the combine.

No need to overvalue him because he runs fast in shorts and can lift a bunch of weight. None of that athletic skill translates out onto the field, where it should matter. Guy has been propped up because of his combine time, there is nothing he's done in terms of his on-field production that would warrent a 2nd round grade, let alone the 27th pick overall.
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
kenney wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
Marco79 wrote:
I hate when teams draft old rookies, more specifcally in the early rounds cause they have probably hit there peak. No 26 year old rookie for us.


To be fair, guy has only played organized football for four years. He was an Olympic hopeful for Estonia, but lost his funding; SMU HC June Jones saw this freak in the weight room, knew his money was slowly dripping to an end, offered him a football scholarship pretty much after his first meeting...and now, Hunt is considered a late 1st rounder.

That being said - this rise is eerily similar to what we saw from Dontari Poe last season. For the most part, Poe was a pretty mediocre NT for Memphis, didn't do anything in games that made you take notice...but 45x225 plus a 4.6 40 yard dash later, people (including myself and the KC Chiefs) were quick to state that Poe was the best NT in the draft. Question on the lack of production be damned, murmurs on having a low end motor and no work ethic were quickly ignored when he lifted the RCA Dome while sprinting against a cheetah. That's the combine for you, I guess.

Now, I am not stating that Hunt has the same issues - nobody has questioned a former Olympic hopeful in regards to his work ethic, or his motor. With Hunt, it's all about his knowledge, his football IQ. As stated earlier - most guys in this draft had as much experience as Hunt had going in to high school, let alone the NFL. Even for his age, Hunt is VERY raw. The tools are there, and they are there in ways that you don't see in someone that size...but it will take a lot of patience and coaching to get him to play to those skills.

All in all - the Planet Theory (coined by Bill Parcells and George Allen) dictates that he should be a 1st round pick. There are only so many people on the planet that represent such a size/strength/speed combo, and even if it's raw, it is something that is rare. You don't overthink it, you take him and go. IF he can land on a team that has the luxury of bringing him along slowly, letting him get the speed and power of the NFL trenches in small spoonfuls, all while correcting any bad habits he's picked up in his four years, they'll have a very good player on their hands. If say someone like Rod Marinelli or Jim Washburn (DC/DL coaches with THAT level of experience) get their hands on Hunt - he will be a MONSTER, just a guy who will crush opposing OL when the ball is snapped.

It will all depend on who gets him, honestly. The potential and work ethic is there to be good, great even. However, the lack of experience is there to see this guy bust in a bad way. He's the definition of a boom/bust pick.


I think Bill Kollar and the Texans DL group could get a helluva lot out of him. I'm kinda pullin for us to take him in round 1. Plus he'd give us leverage with Antonio Smith's contract up next year, and if he works at it there's no doubt his ceiling is higher than Antonio's. Pairing Hunt (who blocked 17 kicks in his college career) with Watt (who blocked 16 passes last season) in our front could lay the foundation for a superbowl team.


I love Margus Hunt as a prospect, but I liked him more when I thought he could, perhaps, be an early 3rd day pick to start on special teams and slowly work into third down situations until he could start. I don't want another 5-tech in the 1st round right now.


Bingo. Early 3rd day? Yes, please. Heck, I'd even take a gamble on a late 2nd day pick, maybe the comp pick we're due for Mario Williams. But 1st? No way, not at ALL.

If this team had no glaring holes and he was the BPA at 27, then...well, even then I'd have my reservations. Thing is, this team has some holes that it needs to fill, so spending it on a project player who will be the 4th person on the DE DC doesn't fill any hole.


This is a shortsighted way of looking at it. He'd probably start off 3rd on our depth chart, rotating in situationally, kinda like last year's first round pick...

Then next year Antonio Smith's contract is up, we save a buncha money on a young freak DE to replace him with.

How is everyone not on board with drafting this dude??

He's all potential at this point. Yes he's big, fast, and strong, but his football IQ is underwhelming as is his consistency. Let someone else over-draft him based off combine results.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I mentioned, if a team was able to spend a 3rd or 4th on Hunt as opposed to their 1st or 2nd on him and just plug him in and play in Special Teams at first, he'd be as dominant and vital a special teams player as any dynamic returner. Even with a low football IQ, you don't block nearly 20 FGs by accident.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
As I mentioned, if a team was able to spend a 3rd or 4th on Hunt as opposed to their 1st or 2nd on him and just plug him in and play in Special Teams at first, he'd be as dominant and vital a special teams player as any dynamic returner. Even with a low football IQ, you don't block nearly 20 FGs by accident.


And I can agree with this. 3rd or 4th? Fine by me. 1st? No, no way.
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