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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1931
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of whats a bigger need between DE or CB in some people opinion the value at 12 for a CB is not there for me thats my opnion. I am hopeful we get to see a healthy Marshall this year and reports are he is working out at 100 percent. I like the value at CB in round 2 and 3
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JCool333


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Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 12767
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.
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Jaytotha


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 4457
Location: Spokane Valley, Wa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No thank you.... Trade down yes
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2252
Location: TN, by way of Palm Beach FL
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.


Well said.

It seems obvious to me that CB should be of much more concern to our FO right now than DE......even if we do retain Smith.....reason being is that we at least have 1 pro bowl caliber DE and this years draft is deep in the DE position throughout the first 2 rounds at least as far as projection wise.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I'll explain. We need a CB who can shut down the opposing WR. We need a guy that can play press man in this defense. We need a guy that can go up and get the ball. We need a guy who has the strength and the speed to play with any WR.

at 6'1 210, he is a big CB who can do it all. Oh and he is good at shedding blocks and making the tackle. He isn't afraid to tackle at all. This guy has a ceiling of Darrelle Revis.

Think about it this way. When teams are thin at a position and lose a starter to free agency, they fill it that void with a guy that can step in right away.

So let's say we sign Cox, well he has an injury history and Marshall is 28 coming off of a back injury. We don't have a lot of depth. So why not draft a guy in the 1st round that can step in day one and make a difference?

This guy has covered, Ryan Broyles, Michael Floyd, Alshon Jeffery, Sammy Watkins, Deandre Hopkins, Corey Fuller, Marcus Davis, and Tommy Streeter, and succeeded.
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3766
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.


The stats are about the same for each position....

Both Measure play making ability...and like CB and his ability the measure of a very good DE is looking at how often he is double teamed, rolled away from, run stopping ability.....

The point I was making was that you can't discount Int's then use Sacks as a major determining factor in one's production...
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.


The stats are about the same for each position....

Both Measure play making ability...and like CB and his ability the measure of a very good DE is looking at how often he is double teamed, rolled away from, run stopping ability.....

The point I was making was that you can't discount Int's then use Sacks as a major determining factor in one's production...


And completely missing the point in the process. You were talking about a college player's ability to contribute at the next level by citing his career interception total. I was talking about the relative effectiveness of an existing NFL team's pass rush by citing their sack total for the most recent season. These are completely, totally different things.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.


The stats are about the same for each position....

Both Measure play making ability...and like CB and his ability the measure of a very good DE is looking at how often he is double teamed, rolled away from, run stopping ability.....

The point I was making was that you can't discount Int's then use Sacks as a major determining factor in one's production...


And completely missing the point in the process. You were talking about a college player's ability to contribute at the next level by citing his career interception total. I was talking about the relative effectiveness of an existing NFL team's pass rush by citing their sack total for the most recent season. These are completely, totally different things.


Have you ever heard of coverage sacks? Some times the OL stonewalls the DEs and you need a CB who can stick man to man regardless. Rhodes can do that.
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:


So int's are the worse way of evaluating the measure of a CB, but sacks are the best way to evaluate a pass rush? Interesting....


Um... of course. INTs measure playmaking ability and factor in, but they mean that the Cb gets thrown at, too. The best CBs may also have a lot of INTs, but the best evaluator of their coverage ability is catches allowed, TDs allowed, catch & of balls thrown at them.

For pass rush, when the idea is to sack the passer and pressure him, sacks are a key component, as they are the purpose of any pass rush. Hurries and holding penalties should be thrown in, too, but sacks are way more relevant than INTs.


The stats are about the same for each position....

Both Measure play making ability...and like CB and his ability the measure of a very good DE is looking at how often he is double teamed, rolled away from, run stopping ability.....

The point I was making was that you can't discount Int's then use Sacks as a major determining factor in one's production...


And completely missing the point in the process. You were talking about a college player's ability to contribute at the next level by citing his career interception total. I was talking about the relative effectiveness of an existing NFL team's pass rush by citing their sack total for the most recent season. These are completely, totally different things.


Have you ever heard of coverage sacks? Some times the OL stonewalls the DEs and you need a CB who can stick man to man regardless. Rhodes can do that.


Right. You need a pass rush because nobody can cover forever, and you need quality cover guys to give your pass rushers time to make plays because the 2-second sack is a rarity. It's a symbiotic relationship.
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