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Cap Situation a Non-Story ?
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skinsfanLA


Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 5273
Location: In Thaiphoon's Head
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Cap Situation a Non-Story ? Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:

Us, The Cowboys can't be the only two teams to take advantage of the un-capped year..


We weren't. The Bucs were well UNDER the old cap minimum in the uncapped year. Then they took all that extra $$ and went nuts in the 2013 offseason.

But no punishment for them because they don't play in Mara's division! Or because they didn't dump old contracts to do it. Either way, what they did was not in the "spirit of the cap" just like the Skins and Cowboys.
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 2814
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping we do stall Free Agency.

This will not only put pressure on the NFL in settling this issue, but will put the story in a major spotlight. Which I'm sorry to say, has not been covered nearly as much as it should have been.

I not only am hopeful we get all or at least partial return on our 2013 18M cap penalty,
But possibly compensation for the penalty on 2012 as well.

The bad news: It will be hard arguing there was a competitive advantage after winning the NFC East. Laughing

The good news: Goodell & Mara can't keep their mouth shut, about the actual true story of what transpired.

What do I think happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think Snyder/Allen will continue to delay/stall/fight for our cap returned, while having the nuclear option on the table.

I think the threat of this and the actual corruption going on in the NFL, will force some type of settlement.

I think we end up getting like 12M returned for this 2013 season. Nothing returned for the 2012 season. (what's done is done) Giving us a 12/36M in returned penalties, which is 33% in returned total cap. No court or publized rulings...(everything kept quiet and under the rug, as the NFL will want to keep it)

Plus I have a feeling we get some kind of compensation from 2012 penalty and it happening 24 hours before start of free agency. Like some kind of wrongful deadline suit.

I believe that compensation will be a compensatory draft pick.
How high...? No idea...
Something tells me, it will be at least a 2nd rd pick if not a 1st. (non-tradeable as we all know compensatory picks are)

I think a 1st or 2nd rd compensatory draft pick +
12 of 36M cap penalty returned

Is enough for Bruce Allen & Snyder to allow Free Agency to go on as scheduled, which is March 12th @ 3pm CT.

This would be enough money to allow us to re-sign the guys we plan on keeping and fewer contract restructures, that were probably originally planned. (might allow us to keep RFA Jackson and others)

Plus, to go after some free agents we are targeting, but not crazy money contracts.
Something like last season. Maybe a Garcon type of deal.

This is what I hope happens or even better.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 6624
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm hoping we do stall Free Agency.

This will not only put pressure on the NFL in settling this issue, but will put the story in a major spotlight. Which I'm sorry to say, has not been covered nearly as much as it should have been.

I not only am hopeful we get all or at least partial return on our 2013 18M cap penalty,
But possibly compensation for the penalty on 2012 as well.

The bad news: It will be hard arguing there was a competitive advantage after winning the NFC East. Laughing

The good news: Goodell & Mara can't keep their mouth shut, about the actual true story of what transpired.

What do I think happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think Snyder/Allen will continue to delay/stall/fight for our cap returned, while having the nuclear option on the table.

I think the threat of this and the actual corruption going on in the NFL, will force some type of settlement.

I think we end up getting like 12M returned for this 2013 season. Nothing returned for the 2012 season. (what's done is done) Giving us a 12/36M in returned penalties, which is 33% in returned total cap. No court or publized rulings...(everything kept quiet and under the rug, as the NFL will want to keep it)

Plus I have a feeling we get some kind of compensation from 2012 penalty and it happening 24 hours before start of free agency. Like some kind of wrongful deadline suit.

I believe that compensation will be a compensatory draft pick.
How high...? No idea...
Something tells me, it will be at least a 2nd rd pick if not a 1st. (non-tradeable as we all know compensatory picks are)

I think a 1st or 2nd rd compensatory draft pick +
12 of 36M cap penalty returned

Is enough for Bruce Allen & Snyder to allow Free Agency to go on as scheduled, which is March 12th @ 3pm CT.

This would be enough money to allow us to re-sign the guys we plan on keeping and fewer contract restructures, that were probably originally planned. (might allow us to keep RFA Jackson and others)

Plus, to go after some free agents we are targeting, but not crazy money contracts.
Something like last season. Maybe a Garcon type of deal.

This is what I hope happens or even better.
An arbitrator ruled against us last season. We aren't getting any draft pick compensation. Just forget about that. Also I don't think we'll win any sort of arbitration or court battle this year. The best chance we have to getting back any cap space is to force the league to settle with us because they are scared we'll hold up free agency.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm hoping we do stall Free Agency.

This will not only put pressure on the NFL in settling this issue, but will put the story in a major spotlight. Which I'm sorry to say, has not been covered nearly as much as it should have been.

I not only am hopeful we get all or at least partial return on our 2013 18M cap penalty,
But possibly compensation for the penalty on 2012 as well.

The bad news: It will be hard arguing there was a competitive advantage after winning the NFC East. Laughing

The good news: Goodell & Mara can't keep their mouth shut, about the actual true story of what transpired.

What do I think happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think Snyder/Allen will continue to delay/stall/fight for our cap returned, while having the nuclear option on the table.

I think the threat of this and the actual corruption going on in the NFL, will force some type of settlement.

I think we end up getting like 12M returned for this 2013 season. Nothing returned for the 2012 season. (what's done is done) Giving us a 12/36M in returned penalties, which is 33% in returned total cap. No court or publized rulings...(everything kept quiet and under the rug, as the NFL will want to keep it)

Plus I have a feeling we get some kind of compensation from 2012 penalty and it happening 24 hours before start of free agency. Like some kind of wrongful deadline suit.

I believe that compensation will be a compensatory draft pick.
How high...? No idea...
Something tells me, it will be at least a 2nd rd pick if not a 1st. (non-tradeable as we all know compensatory picks are)

I think a 1st or 2nd rd compensatory draft pick +
12 of 36M cap penalty returned

Is enough for Bruce Allen & Snyder to allow Free Agency to go on as scheduled, which is March 12th @ 3pm CT.

This would be enough money to allow us to re-sign the guys we plan on keeping and fewer contract restructures, that were probably originally planned. (might allow us to keep RFA Jackson and others)

Plus, to go after some free agents we are targeting, but not crazy money contracts.
Something like last season. Maybe a Garcon type of deal.

This is what I hope happens or even better.


You're dreaming Ace. I really don't see us getting cap back (although I think we have an argument given the NFL's position against the NFLPA in their collusion suit) but even if we get cap space back, there's no way a compensatory pick is thrown in unless it goes all the way to court and a judge agrees with us. If we settle prior to court (which is where this strategy is headed) we'll only get cap back.

And ^^^ is IF we actually pursue it and prevail (which I highly doubt).
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 6624
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm hoping we do stall Free Agency.

This will not only put pressure on the NFL in settling this issue, but will put the story in a major spotlight. Which I'm sorry to say, has not been covered nearly as much as it should have been.

I not only am hopeful we get all or at least partial return on our 2013 18M cap penalty,
But possibly compensation for the penalty on 2012 as well.

The bad news: It will be hard arguing there was a competitive advantage after winning the NFC East. Laughing

The good news: Goodell & Mara can't keep their mouth shut, about the actual true story of what transpired.

What do I think happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think Snyder/Allen will continue to delay/stall/fight for our cap returned, while having the nuclear option on the table.

I think the threat of this and the actual corruption going on in the NFL, will force some type of settlement.

I think we end up getting like 12M returned for this 2013 season. Nothing returned for the 2012 season. (what's done is done) Giving us a 12/36M in returned penalties, which is 33% in returned total cap. No court or publized rulings...(everything kept quiet and under the rug, as the NFL will want to keep it)

Plus I have a feeling we get some kind of compensation from 2012 penalty and it happening 24 hours before start of free agency. Like some kind of wrongful deadline suit.

I believe that compensation will be a compensatory draft pick.
How high...? No idea...
Something tells me, it will be at least a 2nd rd pick if not a 1st. (non-tradeable as we all know compensatory picks are)

I think a 1st or 2nd rd compensatory draft pick +
12 of 36M cap penalty returned

Is enough for Bruce Allen & Snyder to allow Free Agency to go on as scheduled, which is March 12th @ 3pm CT.

This would be enough money to allow us to re-sign the guys we plan on keeping and fewer contract restructures, that were probably originally planned. (might allow us to keep RFA Jackson and others)

Plus, to go after some free agents we are targeting, but not crazy money contracts.
Something like last season. Maybe a Garcon type of deal.

This is what I hope happens or even better.


You're dreaming Ace. I really don't see us getting cap back (although I think we have an argument given the NFL's position against the NFLPA in their collusion suit) but even if we get cap space back, there's no way a compensatory pick is thrown in unless it goes all the way to court and a judge agrees with us. If we settle prior to court (which is where this strategy is headed) we'll only get cap back.

And ^^^ is IF we actually pursue it and prevail (which I highly doubt).
We appear to be of the same mind on this.
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 2814
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm hoping we do stall Free Agency.

This will not only put pressure on the NFL in settling this issue, but will put the story in a major spotlight. Which I'm sorry to say, has not been covered nearly as much as it should have been.

I not only am hopeful we get all or at least partial return on our 2013 18M cap penalty,
But possibly compensation for the penalty on 2012 as well.

The bad news: It will be hard arguing there was a competitive advantage after winning the NFC East. Laughing

The good news: Goodell & Mara can't keep their mouth shut, about the actual true story of what transpired.

What do I think happen?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think Snyder/Allen will continue to delay/stall/fight for our cap returned, while having the nuclear option on the table.

I think the threat of this and the actual corruption going on in the NFL, will force some type of settlement.

I think we end up getting like 12M returned for this 2013 season. Nothing returned for the 2012 season. (what's done is done) Giving us a 12/36M in returned penalties, which is 33% in returned total cap. No court or publized rulings...(everything kept quiet and under the rug, as the NFL will want to keep it)

Plus I have a feeling we get some kind of compensation from 2012 penalty and it happening 24 hours before start of free agency. Like some kind of wrongful deadline suit.

I believe that compensation will be a compensatory draft pick.
How high...? No idea...
Something tells me, it will be at least a 2nd rd pick if not a 1st. (non-tradeable as we all know compensatory picks are)

I think a 1st or 2nd rd compensatory draft pick +
12 of 36M cap penalty returned

Is enough for Bruce Allen & Snyder to allow Free Agency to go on as scheduled, which is March 12th @ 3pm CT.

This would be enough money to allow us to re-sign the guys we plan on keeping and fewer contract restructures, that were probably originally planned. (might allow us to keep RFA Jackson and others)

Plus, to go after some free agents we are targeting, but not crazy money contracts.
Something like last season. Maybe a Garcon type of deal.

This is what I hope happens or even better.
An arbitrator ruled against us last season. We aren't getting any draft pick compensation. Just forget about that. Also I don't think we'll win any sort of arbitration or court battle this year. The best chance we have to getting back any cap space is to force the league to settle with us because they are scared we'll hold up free agency.


If we hold up Free Agency, MKnight82

That will be a public relations nightmare for the league.
It will not only hurt the money revenue for free agency, but possibly open the door for NFL investigations.

Snyder knows this and so does the NFL.
What happened last season in arbitration, doesn't even matter now, imo.

The fact is, Snyder is pissed.
Not only did he and thet eam get affected by this ruling, but done so right at the time of free agency.

Then you have division rival Mara, at the controls of this thing.

IMO...this has become personal to Snyder & Allen.
This isn't some business fallacy.

This was an attempt to put a stain on the redskins organization & Snyder is fighting for our Redskins name & his reputation. Allen truly loves the Redskins and what his father brought to the Allen name. Neither want this action, to be a mark on their reputation and certainly not from failing to fight it or take action.

I believe Snyder is deadly serious about the Nuclear option and taking this to court.
They feel wronged in this matter & should feel that way.

I also believe that as stubborn as both Goodell and Mara are, they're not stupid.
And neither are their Constituents.

Mara and Goodell want to win this thing or at least be considered winners....in directly punishing a team.

Snyder wants retribution for how they went about it and feeling targeted or singled out in this ordeal.

I believe both can be accomplished, in a partial settlement.
Or what I have above.

If this goes into Free Agency and goes public?
I truly believe the NFL could be in big trouble.
And they know it.

Collusion is one thing. (which is illegal)
Can you imagine if there was a federal investigation?
Books had to start being opened?
Can you imagine the dirt that would see light? (Spygate, bountygate, officiating/replacement refs, player fines and where they go) I can only imagine off shore accounts being discovered like in the movies)

naw...this is getting settled.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ace there is no way we are getting a draft pick back for last year.

I think we have a chance at getting a % of the money back this year. It will probably be under 10 million. In the 6-9 range.

The goddell's aren't just to walk back on their decision. Look what they did to the Saints last season, one for he darlings of the NFL. Goddell and his mercenaries just tore them apart and didnt even want the players to be reinstated eventhough they really had no evidence against them.

We're screwed. That's that. Other than getting a few million to help us cap wise as hush money to get us just under the current cap, I don't see us getting anything out of this Comish! He's one of the biggest jerks in the world and I think he likes the Giants more because they've gotten the two superbowls in the last 7 years and they are going to have the Super Bowl in their stadium soon. I doubt he does anything to make Mara mad.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/02/27/collusion-missile-crisis-redskins-wage-war-on-nfl/

Good read here guys.

Quote:
“If the Redskins would pull the trigger on what I’ve been calling the nuclear option, that means suing the other 31 teams,” Florio told the Junkies on 106.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “That means alleging that the NFL engaged in anti-trust violations and collusion; that the Redskins were punished because they failed to go along with the collusion.”

Florio confirmed he had heard from multiple executives around the league that during the lockout, a message was exchanged between owners suggesting “we don’t want anyone to go crazy” in the uncapped year.

“Well, that’s collusion because that’s putting rules beyond the rules that were in the Collective Bargaining Agreement,” Florio said. “There were restrictions on the uncapped year that were bargained for with the union. You can’t put other restrictions on that or you’re engaging in collusion. You’ve got 32 different business coming together saying we’re going to set the market price for spending or whatever.”

Assuming that’s true, two possibilities could be drawn: either Snyder didn’t get the memo, or he chose to ignore it knowing he was shielded by anti-trust laws.

But make no mistake about it, the Redskins suing 31 other teams – or 30 if you subtract the Cowboys – is every bit as serious as it sounds.

“I think the NFL looks at it and says, ‘There’s no way Daniel Snyder is going to behave like Al Davis would have,’” Florio explained. “There’s no way this guy is going to sue the NFL because that creates a wound that takes decades to heal, if ever.”

“I think it’s a bluff and the NFL will likely call their bluff, and then the Redskins are going to have to decide, do we go forward with this?” Florio said. “The NFL doesn’t compromise, especially when the NFL doesn’t believe that it’s going to face the music in court.”

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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 2814
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, many people believe that the reason Dallas/Jerry isn't joining Snyder in this fight is because he was told it would ruin his chances at a SB in the billion dollar play pin.

here's 1 Cowboy fan remark:
Quote:
by Roger.Staubach
I agree with the part about Jerry should be standing along side of you guys. I also believe that the reason Jerry isn't there is that the NFL probably hinted that they won't get a shot at another Super Bowl for a long, long time. And Jerry...being the greedy, spotlight-seeking, [inappropriate/removed] that he is, capitulated.


Want evidence?
Don't think the Redskins can fight it?
look at this...


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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Btw, many people believe that the reason Dallas/Jerry isn't joining Snyder in this fight is because he was told it would ruin his chances at a SB in the billion dollar play pin.

here's 1 Cowboy fan remark:
Quote:
by Roger.Staubach
I agree with the part about Jerry should be standing along side of you guys. I also believe that the reason Jerry isn't there is that the NFL probably hinted that they won't get a shot at another Super Bowl for a long, long time. And Jerry...being the greedy, spotlight-seeking, [inappropriate/removed] that he is, capitulated.


Want evidence?
Don't think the Redskins can fight it?
look at this...

that's not proof. How do we know those bonuses weren't already in the players contracts and if they weren't, we're talking about each team restructuring one player, which to me seems like what all the teams agreed they would do. Not putting 36 million dollars of future dead cap into one offseason.

I see no case being made there. No proof
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Last edited by turtle28 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rizzy


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Pepper's was a new Deal as a free agent the rest I don't know.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points --Let's do it --Sue the rat bas+tards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-should-employ-a-full-court-press/2013/02/28/ba7d76de-81bc-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.html
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some news


Quote:
Home of Jsteelz ‏@JsteelznSkins
slow news but, please dont ask how but the NFL shows Skins 2.9 under the cap, RFA will eat that up though, dont worry skins news coming !!

TK ‏@TKextremeskins
@JsteelznSkins Shhh on that thing we talked about earlier


Like to hear this, if true. (can this be confirmed?)
2.9M under would be nice.
I'm hoping for more, though.

That last line, has me intrigued though.

I think our Redskins, are up to something.
Cool
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
Here is some news


Quote:
Home of Jsteelz ‏@JsteelznSkins
slow news but, please dont ask how but the NFL shows Skins 2.9 under the cap, RFA will eat that up though, dont worry skins news coming !!

TK ‏@TKextremeskins
@JsteelznSkins Shhh on that thing we talked about earlier


Like to hear this, if true. (can this be confirmed?)
2.9M under would be nice.
I'm hoping for more, though.

That last line, has me intrigued though.

I think our Redskins, are up to something.
Cool
http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandlers-real-redsk/2013/03/to-do-business-redskins-will-have-to-cut-over-13-million-off-of-cap.html

The redskins are 3 million over and have to clear 13 million just to do regular business
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me thinks London is truly retiring, but hoping for a Hall restructure.

If the reports are true that we are 2.9M under or will be soon from sources.
It makes perfect sense.

Here's what I learned
--------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
London retiring saves us $3.4M so ..........

Darth Tater mentioned something about how if Fletcher retired we could designate him a June 1 cut and distribute his remaining dead cap. Not sure how that ultimately shakes out, but that might account for the difference.

If I had to put money on it though, I'd say a Hall restructuring. Some combination of extension and/or pay cut getting him from 7.5M down to 3.5M.

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Brian23


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We won't know whether were getting anything back till I think the 19th, whenever the next owners meeting is.

That'll determine it.
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