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Mitchell Schwartz top rookie lineman?
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fullback40 wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
buno67 wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
buno67 wrote:
I want BPA, if Womack is BPA then you take him.


Floyd "Porkchop" Womack is retired. Well, don't know if he's officially filed the paperwork, but he hasn't played since 2011. Don't think he'll be BPA.

Warmack is the top rated player in the draft by many accounts. If he played on the defensive side of the ball, he would go 1st overall and very few would question it.

I just have higher expectations for the 6th pick in the draft than a guard. Even if he's considered one of the best guards in the league by the end of his rookie year.


oh i know but it would be nice for hopefully our new pass happpy shotgun offense to have the leftside on complete lockdown. Having a legit leftside would make Weeden/or whoever is the QB and TRich a lot happier


Wouldn't help as much as having a pass-rushing threat so the defense could get off the field on 3rd down. Or even as much as another lockdown corner would, for the same reason.


That's your opinion...you don't know that.

How about the O being able to keep the D off the field and rested because it moves the chains and, God willing, scores some points?


Ok, and how many points are you expecting an OG to score? How many 1st downs do they run for, throw for, or catch a pass for?

And how is the number of points needed to win affected by a defense that has trouble getting off the field?




LOL. You are right. We don't need an offensive line. They don't run for 1st downs or catch passes. So they should just be practice squad guys based on that logic.


Without an OL, you don't have an offense. Simple as that. With an elite OL, you are in control of the football game. You can dictate pace and tempo. You can call any type of plays you want. If you have a worthless OL, you can't run deep patterns. You can't count on your RB's to pick up clutch 1st downs.


Remember last season? When we had about 3,000 3rd and short situations? Remember when we would run it and get creamed? Remember punting as a result of this? Remember passing in 3rd and inches because our guard play was so pathetic that they couldn't be trusted to get a few inches of push? Because I do...and it was embarrassing.

I want the identity of a team who can still line up in the I formation and pummel teams into submission. When NFL front sevens get smaller, I want our offense to get bigger and more physical.

Also, a guard plays every snap. Every down. Has more of an impact than people who haven't coached/played football understand. When there is no re-establishment of the LOS by your OL, the play is dead. We need to upgrade our interior OL if we want Richardson to look like an elite RB.

If we want an average running game, go ahead and start Pinkston/Luavao.



And btw, your post about the Jamal Lewis years and the OL he had? I will take those guards in terms of run blocking EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK over the bags of [inappropriate/removed] we had in there last year.


I'm sure Shaffer, McKinney, and Fraley will all be happy to know that they can start for your football team. See, nobody else wanted any of them. Shaffer and McKinney, by the way, were out of football at the age of 30.

And sorry, you don't get to just take "run blocking" from an offensive lineman. And really, they weren't that good at it anyway.

Remember last season? When Richardson ran to the wrong hole on 3rd and short or on the goal line? Remember when he was injured for over half the season? Remember how Montario Hardesty would run through holes made by the same guys for a greater rushing average?

Remember the play where Lauvao stood Richardson up and guided him to the goal line?

And hey, do you remember when you ignored the truth in what I said about offensive linemen not scoring points/catching passes/running the ball/getting first downs and instead accused me of saying that we don't need an offensive line so you wouldn't have to address the post I made that accurately summarized your flawed logic?

Remember when you exaggerated or misrepresented just about everything, including how old Lewis was, how many times we were unsuccessful in 3rd and short, and most of what I actually said to you?

Yeah...good times!


Oh, by the way, in 1988 there were TWO guards taken in the top 10 of the draft: Dave Cadigan #8 overall by the Jets and Eric Moore #10 overall by the Giants. Both guys were pretty big disappointments.

Since then, there have been a whopping FOUR pure guards taken in the draft in the top 15 picks. That's 24 years, and none before pick 10.

The one guy that was actually really good was named Ruben Brown, and he was stuck on the Bills.

So how many guards went in the first round from 1990 to 2012 (23 years)? Only 20. So figure this one out, there are 32 teams right now (28 back in 1990) each with 2 starting guards. How many teams have even ONE starting guard that was drafted in the first round?

Well, 12 of those guys don't even play football anymore (most were disappointments anyway). So that leaves 8, out of 32 teams.

Why do you think that NFL teams disagree with you about the importance of "elite" guards in the draft? They just get these guys in the mid rounds and call it good.

And those guys you really like? Shaffer was a 7th round pick in 2002 (and this guy was our "big money" LT in 2006). McKinney was a 3rd round pick in 2002. Steinbach was a 2nd round pick in 2003. Hank Fraley was undrafted in 2001. Rex Hadnot was a 6th round pick in 2004.

And hey, the guards that blocked for Adrian Peterson? Both 6th round picks. Geez, why did they last so long in the draft?

Those "elite" guards that blocked for Alfred Morris? A second round pick by the Ravens and a 4th round pick by the Broncos, so they were pretty valuable to the teams that drafted them huh?

Those supermen that blocked the guard spots for the Seahawks were a 3rd round pick by the Raiders and a 5th round pick by the Packers, more love from the team that drafted them.

The Chiefs actually drafted their own guards in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. But one of those guys was replacing the previously undrafted guard who moved to center last year.

Every one of those teams had a 1500+ yard rusher.

The Bucs had free agent castoffs too, and also played "musical offensive line" due to injuries. Those were the top 5 running games in the NFL last year.

What pattern do you see there? I mean besides calling a guard "good" when the running back has a great season and then saying the same guy is "bad" when he was on a team with a different running back.

Seems like there's just more to it than you seem to think.
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BocaRatonBrown1


Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


That's really freaking slow

Holy crap Shocked
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


That's really freaking slow

Holy crap Shocked



Make him run the 40 with pads, chipping a DT, and then pancaking a LB... then I might care what time he gets. Laughing
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


That's really freaking slow

Holy crap Shocked


That's Rich Eisen fast.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


yeah who cares about what his overall 40 was...

I want to see him run it to see what his hips looked like getting out of his stance. I want to see his 10yard and 20yard split because to me those mean more than the 40 itself to offensive and defensive linemen
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BocaRatonBrown1


Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


yeah who cares about what his overall 40 was...

I want to see him run it to see what his hips looked like getting out of his stance. I want to see his 10yard and 20yard split because to me those mean more than the 40 itself to offensive and defensive linemen



Speed kills they say.....

Its also the 1 overrated attribute I think people fall for often.

Think Jerry Rice, Boldin, Emmitt Smith etc.....
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRAIL'S END#307 wrote:
I agree w/you 1000%. { Fullback40 } However, it would be hard to pass on Milliner IF he falls in our lap. IMO CB is more of a need right now than OG. You hit it on the head who I want! In this order (1st round)
1. Milliner - if he's gone thenů
2. Star if he's gone thenů
3. Trade down & get a 2nd that we don't have & take Warmack!
Can you image if we got Andy Levitre in FA too!
LT - Thomas
LG - Warmack
C - Mack
RG - Levitre
RT - Schwartz
We should be able to run or throw! Huge dream I know. Go Browns!


Shocked Arrow Twisted Evil Arrow Pray

That sounds so sexy...lol but seriously, people who wanna rag on that, it will go a long way in attracting an elite QB next year if Weeden doesn't work out.

The idea of having an elite OL, elite RB, good WR corps. Dont sleep on that idea

Plus Dion Sims 6-5 260 ... Cool
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buno67


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
BocaRatonBrown1 wrote:
Rich Cimini

Alabama G Chance Warmack, possibility for #Jets at 9, ran disappointing 5.55 in 40 on first try. Who cares? Dude can block.


yeah who cares about what his overall 40 was...

I want to see him run it to see what his hips looked like getting out of his stance. I want to see his 10yard and 20yard split because to me those mean more than the 40 itself to offensive and defensive linemen



Speed kills they say.....

Its also the 1 overrated attribute I think people fall for often.

Think Jerry Rice, Boldin, Emmitt Smith etc.....

well yeah speed kills when we get TRich into the second level untouched because of killer guard play.

ovarall 40 time is useless for linemen. An offensive/defensive linemen will never ever run a straight line for 40years on the football field unless they are on KO
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched Warmack's 5.55 40 run.

He false started on the first try, and the commentators pointed out how he looked more like he was doing the vertical than the 40 since he basically jumped straight up from his stance.

His form wasn't much better on the run that counted. His movements weren't lumbering or plodding like you would expect of person running such a slow time. It just looks like he didn't spend much (or any) time preparing to run a 40.

If teams devalue him for this effort, they are doing themselves a disservice. Any game tape shows why he's considered by many as the top overall player in this draft.
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buno67


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
I watched Warmack's 5.55 40 run.

He false started on the first try, and the commentators pointed out how he looked more like he was doing the vertical than the 40 since he basically jumped straight up from his stance.

His form wasn't much better on the run that counted. His movements weren't lumbering or plodding like you would expect of person running such a slow time. It just looks like he didn't spend much (or any) time preparing to run a 40.

If teams devalue him for this effort, they are doing themselves a disservice. Any game tape shows why he's considered by many as the top overall player in this draft.


yeah but the 40 is one of the biggest workouts. He either got a training coach who didnt properly prepare him or he didnt take it serious. If he would of have a good 40 for someone size he could of locked himself in a a top pick. some ppl could use it to detract from him. saying he was able to get throught college being a little stiff and not having explosive hips and etc
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