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Bills re-sign Tavaris Jackson
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ianlewis16


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKTurtle51 wrote:
Don't like the move. I was hoping all our QBs would be replaced.


on it
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Yibbyl


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thelonebillsfan wrote:
It's a meh signing, he's a good back-up/spot guy. I think it'll work out alright, he's LIGHTYEARS better as a back-up than freaking Thigpen.

I just hope this is a sign that we cut Fitz.

Totally agree with the bolded, but want to see competition between Fitz & T-Jax. If the loser of the competition was later traded/released, I'd be cool with that.

This signing makes me wonder just how he looked in practices last season or if he may have even been injured. I know Tavaris wasn't active for any games, but obviously he did enough to motivate them to a resign him.
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flutieflakes02


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People need to get over the fact that fitz won't get cut. I don't know how many times this has to be said. He has a 10mil cap hit, he is playing this year for 10mil, so cutting him to save 500k doesn't seem like a good idea. Jackson is a better athlete and better arm. He is an upgrade in almost everyway. Honestly it doesn't matter who is our qb cause we will be giving spiller the ball all the time which means less INTS. Get over it.
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cdavls17


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flutieflakes your only looking at this year, as i said before yes it isnt a difference in cutting him now it saves the bills 500k and avoids them paying him a $3 million bonus. So this saves the bills 500k in salary cap and 3.5 mil in spending cash. The big issue is if he spends one day on the 2013 roster that means if the bills cut him then next season 7 million would cost against the cap so it does matter. If the bills plan on having extra money in the future the time to cut him is now so come next offseason they have that 7 million freed up for other contracts and not in deadp cap space.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get where all the numbers come from for Fitz...but here is what Rotoworld has..

Quote:
an annual $200,000 workout bonus is available throughout the contracts life


Quote:
2013: $4.25 million (+ $3 million roster bonus due 3/13)


Quote:
The deal contains $24 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus.


So what I take away from that is..

- he is still owed 11 mil guaranteed (taking off last years 3 mil roster bonus)
- if he is cut before March 13th we would owe him 4.25 mil this year
- if he is still on the roster then he would make a base salary of 4.25 mil plus the workout bonus plus the roster bonus, giving him a salary of $7.45 million this year.

I am awful with numbers and contracts but going off of what rotoworld has this is what I came up with. So cutting him next year as opposed to this year would cost ..

$ 3 mill signing bonus (2013) + $200,000 workout bonus(2013) + $4.35 base salary for 14' = $7.55 million.

Whereas if we cut him now it'd cost 4.25 mill + whatever is left of his guaranteed money over the next two years.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/buf/
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the break down of contracts:

http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Bills&Year=2013

As you can see he is getting a base salary of $4.25 million, pro rated bonus of $3 million (his guaranteed money), $3 million roster bonus on March 13 and a workout bonus of $200k which comes to $10,450,000 if cut $10 million goes against the cap and save $450k in salary cap but save $3 million in cash spending by not actually paying the $3 million roster bonus.

If he is on the roster as of March 13 then next year he will count against the cap at $7 million

http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Bills&Year=2014


I just think the franchise moved in a new direction at coach and they should move in a new direction at qb but in order to do that you have to get rid of the old one and Fitz is way to expensive to keep as back up so why run the risk of costing them the 7 million next year and the 3 million roster bonus this year if your not confident in him as your starter for 2013? Since Marrone plans on having an open competition why not bring in another guy that can compete with the rookie and Tavaris Jackson such as a guy like Chase Daniels. Yes neither of them are wow factors but it gives a chance for the bills to find a guy that could potentially be a starter for years to come instead of tavaris competing with fitz who we know isnt the answer.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffalo Rumblings and WGR 550 cleared up Tavaris Jackson salary. It is not $4.5 million like it was announced when he first re-signed its only for $1.25 slary with a $450k signing bonus and a $50k workout bonus and none of it is guaranteed. Not sure where the 4.5 million came from but im happy it wasnt that much
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
Buffalo Rumblings and WGR 550 cleared up Tavaris Jackson salary. It is not $4.5 million like it was announced when he first re-signed its only for $1.25 slary with a $450k signing bonus and a $50k workout bonus and none of it is guaranteed. Not sure where the 4.5 million came from but im happy it wasnt that much


maybe the rest of it comes with incentives?

Ever since we re-signed him I keep picturing him and Geno Smith battling it out at camp which would be great for us IMO. However, I could also see it being Nassib backing up TJax a year or two.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats all the incentives he has in the contract he can make up to 1.75 if he is on the roster which isnt bad at all and the bills dont owe him anything if they decide to cut him.
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EccentricFan


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Ever since we re-signed him I keep picturing him and Geno Smith battling it out at camp which would be great for us IMO. However, I could also see it being Nassib backing up TJax a year or two.


I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but I still expect it will play out with Fitz agreeing to a pay cut. Then whichever one between Fitz and Jackson wins out in the off-season stays on the roster along with whatever rookie we draft, with the loser potentially being cut.

I would think they would just keep all three, but the fact the TJax's contract has no guarantees leads me to suspect they plan to cut the loser, although that may depend on how the draft goes. They're potentially considering double-dipping on QB if there's value.

All that said, in an open competition, I'd expect Fitz to win out over Jackson. There may be a lot of hate for Fitz, and he's certainly has plenty of faults, but I just don't think Jackson is the better QB.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EccentricFan wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
Ever since we re-signed him I keep picturing him and Geno Smith battling it out at camp which would be great for us IMO. However, I could also see it being Nassib backing up TJax a year or two.


I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but I still expect it will play out with Fitz agreeing to a pay cut. Then whichever one between Fitz and Jackson wins out in the off-season stays on the roster along with whatever rookie we draft, with the loser potentially being cut.

I would think they would just keep all three, but the fact the TJax's contract has no guarantees leads me to suspect they plan to cut the loser, although that may depend on how the draft goes. They're potentially considering double-dipping on QB if there's value.

All that said, in an open competition, I'd expect Fitz to win out over Jackson. There may be a lot of hate for Fitz, and he's certainly has plenty of faults, but I just don't think Jackson is the better QB.


I just think TJax fits the west coast better then Fitz does. He also adds a mobility presence which is becoming a premium in the NFL. I think TJax is a good QB but has gotten some raw deals with Childress having a creepy obsession with Favre and then R. Wilson just being a sensation.

I am fully expecting Jackson to be our starter day 1 unless we draft Geno Smith.
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EccentricFan


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
I am fully expecting Jackson to be our starter day 1 unless we draft Geno Smith.


I think your expectations are too high for TJax. Look at the stats a bit. Tarvaris had two years that he started the majority of the games. 2011 for the Seahawks, and 2007 for the Vikings.

Whether passer rating or completion percentage, Fitz's stats look better as a starter. We hate Fitz's turnovers, but he was 24 TDs to 16 INTs last year and is 79 TDs to 63 INTs as the primary starter. TJax is 23 TDs to 25 INTs as the primary starter.

And you're overplaying mobility. With his his 4.75 40 yard time, TJax is far from RGIII. I'll grant you he's more mobile than Fitz, but not by much, as Fitz isn't the sort of statue that some passers are.

In fact, in terms of actual production, Fitz has a higher YPC rushing and two years with more total rushing yards than the best TJax has put together.

You can say TJax has been misused, and I do grant purely rushing he'd be better than Fitz. Still, relying on the mobility of a QB who's not even close to the level of RGIII or Russell Wilson in that regard right when defenses are going to start focusing tons of effort onto dealing with the mobile QB phenomenon might not be the best idea.

Sure, you are right that TJax has the advantage on familiarity with a WCO, but one thing no one says is that Fitz isn't book smart. I expect he'll pick up a new playbook with much less issue than most QBs.

Honestly, TJax is more mobile, but I think he's a worse QB overall. I think he'd lose out to Fitz in a fair competition for the position, but even if he won, don't expect any noteworthy improvement at the QB position thanks to him.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EccentricFan wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
I am fully expecting Jackson to be our starter day 1 unless we draft Geno Smith.


I think your expectations are too high for TJax. Look at the stats a bit. Tarvaris had two years that he started the majority of the games. 2011 for the Seahawks, and 2007 for the Vikings.

Whether passer rating or completion percentage, Fitz's stats look better as a starter. We hate Fitz's turnovers, but he was 24 TDs to 16 INTs last year and is 79 TDs to 63 INTs as the primary starter. TJax is 23 TDs to 25 INTs as the primary starter.

And you're overplaying mobility. With his his 4.75 40 yard time, TJax is far from RGIII. I'll grant you he's more mobile than Fitz, but not by much, as Fitz isn't the sort of statue that some passers are.

In fact, in terms of actual production, Fitz has a higher YPC rushing and two years with more total rushing yards than the best TJax has put together.

You can say TJax has been misused, and I do grant purely rushing he'd be better than Fitz. Still, relying on the mobility of a QB who's not even close to the level of RGIII or Russell Wilson in that regard right when defenses are going to start focusing tons of effort onto dealing with the mobile QB phenomenon might not be the best idea.

Sure, you are right that TJax has the advantage on familiarity with a WCO, but one thing no one says is that Fitz isn't book smart. I expect he'll pick up a new playbook with much less issue than most QBs.

Honestly, TJax is more mobile, but I think he's a worse QB overall. I think he'd lose out to Fitz in a fair competition for the position, but even if he won, don't expect any noteworthy improvement at the QB position thanks to him.


I read what you had to say, but personally I am not a big stat guy so most of this holds no water for me.

There is no doubting that TJax is much more mobile and a threat to run then Fitz, he also has a stronger arm.Also coming back to the point of the West Coast system which both he and Hackett enjoy doing. I know Fitz may be smart enough to know the system...but i'll take a player who can actually run it and Fitz accuracy issues most likely will not make him successful.

Here is an article about Fitz contract as well restating the fact that it would be cheaper to cut him then keep him albeit not by very much.

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/12/fitz-has-received-21-million-of-deal.html
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-Jax biggest problem always has been his inability to throw to his left. Much like Rick Mirer.

Natural ability has never been the issue. He's got that in spades. Hopefully Hacketts system is easy enough to get the verbage down and he can at least be a decent spot guy for us.
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