Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

RG3 and the passing game must improve
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19974
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
turtle28 wrote:

And I heard NO one complain about our Wr corp all year last year (except when they had 10 drops in the Pitt game) and when Garcon was injured.



I agree that secondary and ILB are priorities. Also agree that OL is a priority.

Nonetheless, I would not say that no one complain about WR corp. We all remarked that when Garçon was out, we lost many games, when he came back we won all games. That sounds a bit like complaining.


How many of those games did we lose because of poor receiving versus the secondary collapsing? I know that the Carolina game specifically was blown because of our secondary, and so was Atlanta. I'd argue that Cincinnati was too. Yes Green went off, but Hawkins, Gresham, and Binns combined for 10 catches, 191 yards, and 3 TDs.

Quote:
So, WR is also a need, but with lower priority. We can't fix all our problems in one season.


Indeed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 63131
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
turtle28 wrote:

And I heard NO one complain about our Wr corp all year last year (except when they had 10 drops in the Pitt game) and when Garcon was injured.



I agree that secondary and ILB are priorities. Also agree that OL is a priority.

Nonetheless, I would not say that no one complain about WR corp. We all remarked that when Garçon was out, we lost many games, when he came back we won all games. That sounds a bit like complaining.


How many of those games did we lose because of poor receiving versus the secondary collapsing? I know that the Carolina game specifically was blown because of our secondary, and so was Atlanta. I'd argue that Cincinnati was too. Yes Green went off, but Hawkins, Gresham, and Binns combined for 10 catches, 191 yards, and 3 TDs.

Quote:
So, WR is also a need, but with lower priority. We can't fix all our problems in one season.


Indeed
also the Rams game (couldn't stop Almendola), Cinncinnati (Gomes and Hall blew the 1st play of the game and couldn't stop AJ Green or anyonw else all game), first Giants game (lost on the last play of the game on a blown assignment by Willams), vs Carolina Wilson and Williams blew a few coverages that resulted in the Panthers getting big plays which led to the win.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo: 6 tackles, 1, 5 QB hurries
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
TheGreeK1973


Joined: 30 Nov 2012
Posts: 437
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand this we need to get a stud WR logic. Forget the fact we lost one of the best receiving TE in the league for most of the season, we also lost our number 1 WR in almost half the games. What happened in the games he came back? We won 7 in a row and i doubt Garson was 100%.

Our need is DB/FS, ILB and RT. Any money we have in FA has to be spend to upgrade one of those 3 positions and since RTs don't seem to be out there that would be huge upgrades I say DB/FS is where we need to concentrate and then take a RT or ILB with our 2nd or 3rd pick.

I didn't see a major issue with our WRs when we had Cousins put huge number on a decent Browns D in their house.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 63131
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:
I don't understand this we need to get a stud WR logic. Forget the fact we lost one of the best receiving TE in the league for most of the season, we also lost our number 1 WR in almost half the games. What happened in the games he came back? We won 7 in a row and i doubt Garson was 100%.

Our need is DB/FS, ILB and RT. Any money we have in FA has to be spend to upgrade one of those 3 positions and since RTs don't seem to be out there that would be huge upgrades I say DB/FS is where we need to concentrate and then take a RT or ILB with our 2nd or 3rd pick.

I didn't see a major issue with our WRs when we had Cousins put huge number on a decent Browns D in their house.
our starting wrs Garcon and Morgan weren't 100% all year and it was still the best wr corp we've had in 20 years since we had monk, Clark and sanders.

I totally agree. People are just big name hungry like Snyder was in the early 2000s. It gets old, but it isn't going to change.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo: 6 tackles, 1, 5 QB hurries
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the first point that needs to be made when discussing an issue as far down the road as "should we pick Player X in Round Y?" is one that my old friend midniterc made quite often: A lot is going to happen between now and then. The combine, pro days, free agency, trades, cuts, etc. are going to shape not only the needs of the roster but also the perceived value of any draft prospects. Discussing whether Player X makes sense for us with any certainty is really a futile pursuit until more information becomes available as the offseason progresses.

The first bridge we'll have to cross is making a decision on the available FAs, as well as potential trade targets. In a lot of ways, I could see a guy like Mike Wallace being a nice fit for us with his ability to take the top off a defense. And Dwayne Bowe has been a top-end target for a long time. But I don't see either as a good option for us this offseason, given the price tags that would be attached to each. Wallace is a dangerous deep threat, but how much more dangerous than Garcon and perhaps especially Aldrick Robinson? And Bowe is the sort of player who makes his hay in close quarters, who can handle high-volume targets and make tough catches. That's not really a fit for what we do, which is based on spreading things out and making throws in wide windows. More to the point, it's not the sort of thing we should be paying a premium for.

The two guys who really interest me from a style-of-play standpoint are Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin. Santana had a nice season for us, but both of those guys would be upgrades on what he gave us from that slot position. Harvin, especially, could be scintillating in terms of his skill set. He would be a dangerous and versatile weapon to factor into our scheme with his ability to carry the football, even between the tackles. And his run-after-the-catch capability is especially dangerous with an accurate QB like RGIII who can hit his receivers while they're on the move.

If we were a team with a full cupboard of assets, in terms of draft picks and salary cap space, I think trading for Harvin would be a brilliant move. His value is down for various reasons, but he's still very young with a track record of substantial production. And it's a very easy fit to envision with him in our system. I see it as the sort of trade a team like the Patriots or Ravens would make --- using assets to pick up a proven player who would immediately and smoothly slot into the scheme, as well as complement the players we already have.

HOWEVER, and it's a big however, our assets are tremendously limited thanks to the cap penalty and the RGIII trade. That forces us to play things a little more conservatively and a little closer to the vest. Whereas we could splurge with, say, a 2nd round pick in a Harvin trade if we had our full complement of picks, we really can't afford to further limit the influx of extremely cheap, affordable young players while we're still dealing with the fallout of the RGIII trade. And the lack of that $18M in cap space is going to force us to make some very tough calls in terms of FA spending priorities.

Our pass offense was 1st in YPA and 3rd in pass rating. We were one of only 4 teams that had a TD/INT ratio of at least 3:1 --- despite Cousins sort of throwing that out of whack with an unusually high INT rate. We did this despite playing with two rookie QBs and with our top WR and TE both out for half the season. Our top two WRs were new to the team and to the system, which is not to mention Hankerson who is entering the ever-pivotal 3rd year of his young career. To put it quite simply, the passing game is "good enough" and seems likely to improve with time.

What is not "good enough" is the defensive secondary. We were toward the bottom of the league in nearly every relevant pass defense statistic. In fact, the only thing we did reasonably well in pass defense was collecting interceptions --- and nearly half of those were made by LBs (10 of the 21 INTs on the season). Madieu Williams was predictably poor in coverage at the FS spot, and our CBs consistently struggled to come up with stops in high-leverage situations (dead last in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). We'll benefit from the return of Orakpo next season and maybe Meriweather can be the answer at SS. But we really need a significant and immediate upgrade at either FS or CB1. Desperately, I'd say.

The sum point of all this is pretty straightforward: it would be great to be in a position to splurge on a luxury like an elite WR --- but we're not in that position. We have to choose very carefully how we allocate our assets while our cap room is limited (this offseason) and our impact draft picks are limited (this offseason and next). That means sticking to very specific priorities and not making high-cost investments in areas that are "good enough" as is, because that will hamstring our efforts to make upgrades in the top priority areas. At this point, going into next season, the focus in FA/trade has to be finding at least one reliably high-end answer in the secondary. Preferably a FS, and perhaps most preferably Jairus Byrd. But until all has failed on that front, turning our attention and our assets to a WR position that gave us efficient and at times explosive production last season just doesn't seem to be a wise use of our limited resources.
_________________


O.J. Atogwe Tracker: 25 Tackles | 1 INT | 2 PDs | 2 TFLs | 1 sack
Saverio Rocca Tracker: 44.2 AVG | 41.2 NET | 14/25 IN20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 63131
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
I think the first point that needs to be made when discussing an issue as far down the road as "should we pick Player X in Round Y?" is one that my old friend midniterc made quite often: A lot is going to happen between now and then. The combine, pro days, free agency, trades, cuts, etc. are going to shape not only the needs of the roster but also the perceived value of any draft prospects. Discussing whether Player X makes sense for us with any certainty is really a futile pursuit until more information becomes available as the offseason progresses.

The first bridge we'll have to cross is making a decision on the available FAs, as well as potential trade targets. In a lot of ways, I could see a guy like Mike Wallace being a nice fit for us with his ability to take the top off a defense. And Dwayne Bowe has been a top-end target for a long time. But I don't see either as a good option for us this offseason, given the price tags that would be attached to each. Wallace is a dangerous deep threat, but how much more dangerous than Garcon and perhaps especially Aldrick Robinson? And Bowe is the sort of player who makes his hay in close quarters, who can handle high-volume targets and make tough catches. That's not really a fit for what we do, which is based on spreading things out and making throws in wide windows. More to the point, it's not the sort of thing we should be paying a premium for.

The two guys who really interest me from a style-of-play standpoint are Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin. Santana had a nice season for us, but both of those guys would be upgrades on what he gave us from that slot position. Harvin, especially, could be scintillating in terms of his skill set. He would be a dangerous and versatile weapon to factor into our scheme with his ability to carry the football, even between the tackles. And his run-after-the-catch capability is especially dangerous with an accurate QB like RGIII who can hit his receivers while they're on the move.

If we were a team with a full cupboard of assets, in terms of draft picks and salary cap space, I think trading for Harvin would be a brilliant move. His value is down for various reasons, but he's still very young with a track record of substantial production. And it's a very easy fit to envision with him in our system. I see it as the sort of trade a team like the Patriots or Ravens would make --- using assets to pick up a proven player who would immediately and smoothly slot into the scheme, as well as complement the players we already have.

HOWEVER, and it's a big however, our assets are tremendously limited thanks to the cap penalty and the RGIII trade. That forces us to play things a little more conservatively and a little closer to the vest. Whereas we could splurge with, say, a 2nd round pick in a Harvin trade if we had our full complement of picks, we really can't afford to further limit the influx of extremely cheap, affordable young players while we're still dealing with the fallout of the RGIII trade. And the lack of that $18M in cap space is going to force us to make some very tough calls in terms of FA spending priorities.

Our pass offense was 1st in YPA and 3rd in pass rating. We were one of only 4 teams that had a TD/INT ratio of at least 3:1 --- despite Cousins sort of throwing that out of whack with an unusually high INT rate. We did this despite playing with two rookie QBs and with our top WR and TE both out for half the season. Our top two WRs were new to the team and to the system, which is not to mention Hankerson who is entering the ever-pivotal 3rd year of his young career. To put it quite simply, the passing game is "good enough" and seems likely to improve with time.

What is not "good enough" is the defensive secondary. We were toward the bottom of the league in nearly every relevant pass defense statistic. In fact, the only thing we did reasonably well in pass defense was collecting interceptions --- and nearly half of those were made by LBs (10 of the 21 INTs on the season). Madieu Williams was predictably poor in coverage at the FS spot, and our CBs consistently struggled to come up with stops in high-leverage situations (dead last in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). We'll benefit from the return of Orakpo next season and maybe Meriweather can be the answer at SS. But we really need a significant and immediate upgrade at either FS or CB1. Desperately, I'd say.

The sum point of all this is pretty straightforward: it would be great to be in a position to splurge on a luxury like an elite WR --- but we're not in that position. We have to choose very carefully how we allocate our assets while our cap room is limited (this offseason) and our impact draft picks are limited (this offseason and next). That means sticking to very specific priorities and not making high-cost investments in areas that are "good enough" as is, because that will hamstring our efforts to make upgrades in the top priority areas. At this point, going into next season, the focus in FA/trade has to be finding at least one reliably high-end answer in the secondary. Preferably a FS, and perhaps most preferably Jairus Byrd. But until all has failed on that front, turning our attention and our assets to a WR position that gave us efficient and at times explosive production last season just doesn't seem to be a wise use of our limited resources.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool

He lives! He lives! Laughing Glad to see you post buddy!


_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo: 6 tackles, 1, 5 QB hurries
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 3821
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
TheGreeK1973 wrote:
I don't understand this we need to get a stud WR logic. Forget the fact we lost one of the best receiving TE in the league for most of the season, we also lost our number 1 WR in almost half the games. What happened in the games he came back? We won 7 in a row and i doubt Garson was 100%.

Our need is DB/FS, ILB and RT. Any money we have in FA has to be spend to upgrade one of those 3 positions and since RTs don't seem to be out there that would be huge upgrades I say DB/FS is where we need to concentrate and then take a RT or ILB with our 2nd or 3rd pick.

I didn't see a major issue with our WRs when we had Cousins put huge number on a decent Browns D in their house.
our starting wrs Garcon and Morgan weren't 100% all year and it was still the best wr corp we've had in 20 years since we had monk, Clark and sanders.

I totally agree. People are just big name hungry like Snyder was in the early 2000s. It gets old, but it isn't going to change.


Garcon is a good pick up a very good one but we need better WRs to get off the press. Moss can come back I wouldn't mind but we need a tall vertical WR but I will say this Fred Davis was needed. I can see us secretly targeting Greg Jenning or something .


If Richard Seymours released or Ratliff I dont see how we wouldnt be interested our DL is not that good but if Cofield can go LE and have Seymour at RE with Ratliff at NT and have Bowen/Carriker /Jenkins as the rotation that that be awesome. No Favoritism at all we need better 3-4 players PERIOD! its many reasons why our pass D and pass rushing was weak .
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXTNES_L3s0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJ8_uNMM_I&list=LLRM2s0GoIPWV7foTBLfFMRw&feature=mh_lolz
^^^^I like to I like to I like to ^_^
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 63131
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
TheGreeK1973 wrote:
I don't understand this we need to get a stud WR logic. Forget the fact we lost one of the best receiving TE in the league for most of the season, we also lost our number 1 WR in almost half the games. What happened in the games he came back? We won 7 in a row and i doubt Garson was 100%.

Our need is DB/FS, ILB and RT. Any money we have in FA has to be spend to upgrade one of those 3 positions and since RTs don't seem to be out there that would be huge upgrades I say DB/FS is where we need to concentrate and then take a RT or ILB with our 2nd or 3rd pick.

I didn't see a major issue with our WRs when we had Cousins put huge number on a decent Browns D in their house.
our starting wrs Garcon and Morgan weren't 100% all year and it was still the best wr corp we've had in 20 years since we had monk, Clark and sanders.

I totally agree. People are just big name hungry like Snyder was in the early 2000s. It gets old, but it isn't going to change.


Garcon is a good pick up a very good one but we need better WRs to get off the press. Moss can come back I wouldn't mind but we need a tall vertical WR but I will say this Fred Davis was needed. I can see us secretly targeting Greg Jenning or something .
Laughing Greg Jennings is shorter than all our Wrs but Moss, he's also going to be 30, expensive and is risky because of his injury history this past year. I don't think he's be a good signing.


Quote:
If Richard Seymour's released or Ratliff I dont see how we wouldnt be interested our DL is not that good but if Cofield can go LE and have Seymour at RE with Ratliff at NT and have Bowen/Carriker /Jenkins as the rotation that that be awesome. No Favoritism at all we need better 3-4 players PERIOD! its many reasons why our pass D and pass rushing was weak .
Our pass rush was weak because we missed Orakpo who is the only player in our front 7 that commands a double team.

I'd consider signing Seymour or Ratliff for the right price to replace Golston on the roster. Neither deserves another big contract
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo: 6 tackles, 1, 5 QB hurries
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19974
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
I think the first point that needs to be made when discussing an issue as far down the road as "should we pick Player X in Round Y?" is one that my old friend midniterc made quite often: A lot is going to happen between now and then. The combine, pro days, free agency, trades, cuts, etc. are going to shape not only the needs of the roster but also the perceived value of any draft prospects. Discussing whether Player X makes sense for us with any certainty is really a futile pursuit until more information becomes available as the offseason progresses.

The first bridge we'll have to cross is making a decision on the available FAs, as well as potential trade targets. In a lot of ways, I could see a guy like Mike Wallace being a nice fit for us with his ability to take the top off a defense. And Dwayne Bowe has been a top-end target for a long time. But I don't see either as a good option for us this offseason, given the price tags that would be attached to each. Wallace is a dangerous deep threat, but how much more dangerous than Garcon and perhaps especially Aldrick Robinson? And Bowe is the sort of player who makes his hay in close quarters, who can handle high-volume targets and make tough catches. That's not really a fit for what we do, which is based on spreading things out and making throws in wide windows. More to the point, it's not the sort of thing we should be paying a premium for.

The two guys who really interest me from a style-of-play standpoint are Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin. Santana had a nice season for us, but both of those guys would be upgrades on what he gave us from that slot position. Harvin, especially, could be scintillating in terms of his skill set. He would be a dangerous and versatile weapon to factor into our scheme with his ability to carry the football, even between the tackles. And his run-after-the-catch capability is especially dangerous with an accurate QB like RGIII who can hit his receivers while they're on the move.

If we were a team with a full cupboard of assets, in terms of draft picks and salary cap space, I think trading for Harvin would be a brilliant move. His value is down for various reasons, but he's still very young with a track record of substantial production. And it's a very easy fit to envision with him in our system. I see it as the sort of trade a team like the Patriots or Ravens would make --- using assets to pick up a proven player who would immediately and smoothly slot into the scheme, as well as complement the players we already have.

HOWEVER, and it's a big however, our assets are tremendously limited thanks to the cap penalty and the RGIII trade. That forces us to play things a little more conservatively and a little closer to the vest. Whereas we could splurge with, say, a 2nd round pick in a Harvin trade if we had our full complement of picks, we really can't afford to further limit the influx of extremely cheap, affordable young players while we're still dealing with the fallout of the RGIII trade. And the lack of that $18M in cap space is going to force us to make some very tough calls in terms of FA spending priorities.

Our pass offense was 1st in YPA and 3rd in pass rating. We were one of only 4 teams that had a TD/INT ratio of at least 3:1 --- despite Cousins sort of throwing that out of whack with an unusually high INT rate. We did this despite playing with two rookie QBs and with our top WR and TE both out for half the season. Our top two WRs were new to the team and to the system, which is not to mention Hankerson who is entering the ever-pivotal 3rd year of his young career. To put it quite simply, the passing game is "good enough" and seems likely to improve with time.

What is not "good enough" is the defensive secondary. We were toward the bottom of the league in nearly every relevant pass defense statistic. In fact, the only thing we did reasonably well in pass defense was collecting interceptions --- and nearly half of those were made by LBs (10 of the 21 INTs on the season). Madieu Williams was predictably poor in coverage at the FS spot, and our CBs consistently struggled to come up with stops in high-leverage situations (dead last in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). We'll benefit from the return of Orakpo next season and maybe Meriweather can be the answer at SS. But we really need a significant and immediate upgrade at either FS or CB1. Desperately, I'd say.

The sum point of all this is pretty straightforward: it would be great to be in a position to splurge on a luxury like an elite WR --- but we're not in that position. We have to choose very carefully how we allocate our assets while our cap room is limited (this offseason) and our impact draft picks are limited (this offseason and next). That means sticking to very specific priorities and not making high-cost investments in areas that are "good enough" as is, because that will hamstring our efforts to make upgrades in the top priority areas. At this point, going into next season, the focus in FA/trade has to be finding at least one reliably high-end answer in the secondary. Preferably a FS, and perhaps most preferably Jairus Byrd. But until all has failed on that front, turning our attention and our assets to a WR position that gave us efficient and at times explosive production last season just doesn't seem to be a wise use of our limited resources.


First, to everyone: re-read this post. Then remember that if not for the fact that e16 came up with the Sean Taylor Award, he would be the first winner, not me.

Brilliant explanation.


Second, to e16bball: where the heck have you been, man?! I've been running the asylum by myself here! Very Happy Laughing Check your PMs from time to time!!

Oh ... and welcome back. Smile Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 14548
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
I think the first point that needs to be made when discussing an issue as far down the road as "should we pick Player X in Round Y?" is one that my old friend midniterc made quite often: A lot is going to happen between now and then. The combine, pro days, free agency, trades, cuts, etc. are going to shape not only the needs of the roster but also the perceived value of any draft prospects. Discussing whether Player X makes sense for us with any certainty is really a futile pursuit until more information becomes available as the offseason progresses.

The first bridge we'll have to cross is making a decision on the available FAs, as well as potential trade targets. In a lot of ways, I could see a guy like Mike Wallace being a nice fit for us with his ability to take the top off a defense. And Dwayne Bowe has been a top-end target for a long time. But I don't see either as a good option for us this offseason, given the price tags that would be attached to each. Wallace is a dangerous deep threat, but how much more dangerous than Garcon and perhaps especially Aldrick Robinson? And Bowe is the sort of player who makes his hay in close quarters, who can handle high-volume targets and make tough catches. That's not really a fit for what we do, which is based on spreading things out and making throws in wide windows. More to the point, it's not the sort of thing we should be paying a premium for.

The two guys who really interest me from a style-of-play standpoint are Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin. Santana had a nice season for us, but both of those guys would be upgrades on what he gave us from that slot position. Harvin, especially, could be scintillating in terms of his skill set. He would be a dangerous and versatile weapon to factor into our scheme with his ability to carry the football, even between the tackles. And his run-after-the-catch capability is especially dangerous with an accurate QB like RGIII who can hit his receivers while they're on the move.

If we were a team with a full cupboard of assets, in terms of draft picks and salary cap space, I think trading for Harvin would be a brilliant move. His value is down for various reasons, but he's still very young with a track record of substantial production. And it's a very easy fit to envision with him in our system. I see it as the sort of trade a team like the Patriots or Ravens would make --- using assets to pick up a proven player who would immediately and smoothly slot into the scheme, as well as complement the players we already have.

HOWEVER, and it's a big however, our assets are tremendously limited thanks to the cap penalty and the RGIII trade. That forces us to play things a little more conservatively and a little closer to the vest. Whereas we could splurge with, say, a 2nd round pick in a Harvin trade if we had our full complement of picks, we really can't afford to further limit the influx of extremely cheap, affordable young players while we're still dealing with the fallout of the RGIII trade. And the lack of that $18M in cap space is going to force us to make some very tough calls in terms of FA spending priorities.

Our pass offense was 1st in YPA and 3rd in pass rating. We were one of only 4 teams that had a TD/INT ratio of at least 3:1 --- despite Cousins sort of throwing that out of whack with an unusually high INT rate. We did this despite playing with two rookie QBs and with our top WR and TE both out for half the season. Our top two WRs were new to the team and to the system, which is not to mention Hankerson who is entering the ever-pivotal 3rd year of his young career. To put it quite simply, the passing game is "good enough" and seems likely to improve with time.

What is not "good enough" is the defensive secondary. We were toward the bottom of the league in nearly every relevant pass defense statistic. In fact, the only thing we did reasonably well in pass defense was collecting interceptions --- and nearly half of those were made by LBs (10 of the 21 INTs on the season). Madieu Williams was predictably poor in coverage at the FS spot, and our CBs consistently struggled to come up with stops in high-leverage situations (dead last in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). We'll benefit from the return of Orakpo next season and maybe Meriweather can be the answer at SS. But we really need a significant and immediate upgrade at either FS or CB1. Desperately, I'd say.

The sum point of all this is pretty straightforward: it would be great to be in a position to splurge on a luxury like an elite WR --- but we're not in that position. We have to choose very carefully how we allocate our assets while our cap room is limited (this offseason) and our impact draft picks are limited (this offseason and next). That means sticking to very specific priorities and not making high-cost investments in areas that are "good enough" as is, because that will hamstring our efforts to make upgrades in the top priority areas. At this point, going into next season, the focus in FA/trade has to be finding at least one reliably high-end answer in the secondary. Preferably a FS, and perhaps most preferably Jairus Byrd. But until all has failed on that front, turning our attention and our assets to a WR position that gave us efficient and at times explosive production last season just doesn't seem to be a wise use of our limited resources.


Don't ya just hate it when some newbie comes in here and drops a long, well-reasoned post...

So Welcome to the Board, go on over to post for newcomers and introduce yourself.

Psst...best get rid of that Mod avatar, the mods around here will get pissed.

All kidding aside, this is exactly how I'm looking at this. We don't need to waste picks on a WR in 2013.
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaiphoon


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 14548
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
e16bball wrote:
I think the first point that needs to be made when discussing an issue as far down the road as "should we pick Player X in Round Y?" is one that my old friend midniterc made quite often: A lot is going to happen between now and then. The combine, pro days, free agency, trades, cuts, etc. are going to shape not only the needs of the roster but also the perceived value of any draft prospects. Discussing whether Player X makes sense for us with any certainty is really a futile pursuit until more information becomes available as the offseason progresses.

The first bridge we'll have to cross is making a decision on the available FAs, as well as potential trade targets. In a lot of ways, I could see a guy like Mike Wallace being a nice fit for us with his ability to take the top off a defense. And Dwayne Bowe has been a top-end target for a long time. But I don't see either as a good option for us this offseason, given the price tags that would be attached to each. Wallace is a dangerous deep threat, but how much more dangerous than Garcon and perhaps especially Aldrick Robinson? And Bowe is the sort of player who makes his hay in close quarters, who can handle high-volume targets and make tough catches. That's not really a fit for what we do, which is based on spreading things out and making throws in wide windows. More to the point, it's not the sort of thing we should be paying a premium for.

The two guys who really interest me from a style-of-play standpoint are Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin. Santana had a nice season for us, but both of those guys would be upgrades on what he gave us from that slot position. Harvin, especially, could be scintillating in terms of his skill set. He would be a dangerous and versatile weapon to factor into our scheme with his ability to carry the football, even between the tackles. And his run-after-the-catch capability is especially dangerous with an accurate QB like RGIII who can hit his receivers while they're on the move.

If we were a team with a full cupboard of assets, in terms of draft picks and salary cap space, I think trading for Harvin would be a brilliant move. His value is down for various reasons, but he's still very young with a track record of substantial production. And it's a very easy fit to envision with him in our system. I see it as the sort of trade a team like the Patriots or Ravens would make --- using assets to pick up a proven player who would immediately and smoothly slot into the scheme, as well as complement the players we already have.

HOWEVER, and it's a big however, our assets are tremendously limited thanks to the cap penalty and the RGIII trade. That forces us to play things a little more conservatively and a little closer to the vest. Whereas we could splurge with, say, a 2nd round pick in a Harvin trade if we had our full complement of picks, we really can't afford to further limit the influx of extremely cheap, affordable young players while we're still dealing with the fallout of the RGIII trade. And the lack of that $18M in cap space is going to force us to make some very tough calls in terms of FA spending priorities.

Our pass offense was 1st in YPA and 3rd in pass rating. We were one of only 4 teams that had a TD/INT ratio of at least 3:1 --- despite Cousins sort of throwing that out of whack with an unusually high INT rate. We did this despite playing with two rookie QBs and with our top WR and TE both out for half the season. Our top two WRs were new to the team and to the system, which is not to mention Hankerson who is entering the ever-pivotal 3rd year of his young career. To put it quite simply, the passing game is "good enough" and seems likely to improve with time.

What is not "good enough" is the defensive secondary. We were toward the bottom of the league in nearly every relevant pass defense statistic. In fact, the only thing we did reasonably well in pass defense was collecting interceptions --- and nearly half of those were made by LBs (10 of the 21 INTs on the season). Madieu Williams was predictably poor in coverage at the FS spot, and our CBs consistently struggled to come up with stops in high-leverage situations (dead last in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). We'll benefit from the return of Orakpo next season and maybe Meriweather can be the answer at SS. But we really need a significant and immediate upgrade at either FS or CB1. Desperately, I'd say.

The sum point of all this is pretty straightforward: it would be great to be in a position to splurge on a luxury like an elite WR --- but we're not in that position. We have to choose very carefully how we allocate our assets while our cap room is limited (this offseason) and our impact draft picks are limited (this offseason and next). That means sticking to very specific priorities and not making high-cost investments in areas that are "good enough" as is, because that will hamstring our efforts to make upgrades in the top priority areas. At this point, going into next season, the focus in FA/trade has to be finding at least one reliably high-end answer in the secondary. Preferably a FS, and perhaps most preferably Jairus Byrd. But until all has failed on that front, turning our attention and our assets to a WR position that gave us efficient and at times explosive production last season just doesn't seem to be a wise use of our limited resources.


First, to everyone: re-read this post. Then remember that if not for the fact that e16 came up with the Sean Taylor Award, he would be the first winner, not me.

Brilliant explanation.


Second, to [b]e16bball: where the heck have you been, man?! I've been running the asylum by myself here! Very Happy Laughing Check your PMs from time to time!![/b]

Oh ... and welcome back. Smile Laughing


Don't be such a drama queen Woz...we only tied you to that tree that one time
_________________


Being Vague Is Almost As Much Fun As That Other Thing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 19974
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
Don't be such a drama queen Woz...we only tied you to that tree that one time


I love how you omitted the part about the crickets. Those aholes bite. HARD!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group