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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6727
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


We shall see my friend.
All I know is that the really good West Coast Off I see tend to feature a STUD TE that
commands double teams.
That in turn frees up the WRs to 1 on 1 coverage or forces the Deff into nickle which
opens up the running gm.

That's ball distribution via math Smile
sug
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1556
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


2007: Donald Lee 48-575-6, Bubba Franks 18-132-3
2009: Jermichael Finley 55-676-5, Donald Lee 37-260-1
2011: Jermichael Finley 55-767-8 3 other TEs combined for 11 catches

Seems like he goes to the TEs plenty when they're talented and healthy.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


2007: Donald Lee 48-575-6, Bubba Franks 18-132-3
2009: Jermichael Finley 55-676-5, Donald Lee 37-260-1
2011: Jermichael Finley 55-767-8 3 other TEs combined for 11 catches

Seems like he goes to the TEs plenty when they're talented and healthy.


That's plenty? That seems good but not great TE numbers. The west coast offense spreads the ball around evenly. The WRs get the ball a lot more than the TEs. The TEs get more redzone looks and 3rd and long looks.

I didn't say TEs aren't important but they aren't the center focus on the this offense. Not enough to trade up for a TE in the 1st
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't trade up for Milliner because you can get Xavier Rhodes in the 2nd.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6727
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


2007: Donald Lee 48-575-6, Bubba Franks 18-132-3
2009: Jermichael Finley 55-676-5, Donald Lee 37-260-1
2011: Jermichael Finley 55-767-8 3 other TEs combined for 11 catches

Seems like he goes to the TEs plenty when they're talented and healthy.


That's plenty? That seems good but not great TE numbers. The west coast offense spreads the ball around evenly. The WRs get the ball a lot more than the TEs. The TEs get more redzone looks and 3rd and long looks.

I didn't say TEs aren't important but they aren't the center focus on the this offense. Not enough to trade up for a TE in the 1st


Yeah I totally get where your coming from B67.
Those TE numbers look pretty good considering the slew of injurys at that position.

I would just add that (unless your in a Jumbo Pkg) there is only 1 TE to 3 WRs. I just don't think
that ratio can be ignored. I think the argument that the value of the TE outweighing a single WR is way valid & should be considered early in the draft.

sug
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1556
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


2007: Donald Lee 48-575-6, Bubba Franks 18-132-3
2009: Jermichael Finley 55-676-5, Donald Lee 37-260-1
2011: Jermichael Finley 55-767-8 3 other TEs combined for 11 catches

Seems like he goes to the TEs plenty when they're talented and healthy.


That's plenty? That seems good but not great TE numbers. The west coast offense spreads the ball around evenly. The WRs get the ball a lot more than the TEs. The TEs get more redzone looks and 3rd and long looks.

I didn't say TEs aren't important but they aren't the center focus on the this offense. Not enough to trade up for a TE in the 1st


It's way more than enough to invalidate the statement that he "doesn't seem to throw to TEs a lot." 92 catches from TEs in 2009 is way above average, especially in a system that tends to spread the ball around a lot. It's not like they had WRs catching 90-100 passes. The leader usually had 70-75 receptions or so, with Driver breaking 80 once and Cobb hitting 80 this year. Of course the WRs see the ball more than TEs, there are three of them. Finley was the 3rd leading receiver for the Packers in 3 of the last 4 seasons, and being the #3 target in a WCO is a pretty big deal. There's really no reason to come to the conclusion they don't use the TE a lot. Philbin uses them when there's a legit threat there.
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Blagasse67


Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11319
Location: Delaware
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
No & for so many reasons.
1. when your 7-9 trying to develope a 2nd yr QB you dont move up to draft a CB that high.
2. when your in the lower half of TD scoring Off in the NFL you dont draft a CB that high.
3. when half the Off starters do not fit the West Coast scheme you dont draft a CB that high.
4. when you only have 1 elite pass rusher halfway through his career you dont draft a CB that high.

My 2 cents
sug


I agree with everything but 2. I think just because you don't have offensive scoring doesn't mean you have to reach for a WR. i think you can get a WR in the 2nd in Patton. There are more WRs in the 2nd and 3rd round this year. I do agree that pass rush is a need but Banks could be one of the best players available at 12. No need to trade up at all. We can sit tight and have Banks at 12


Howdy B67
So we agree on the whole "not moving up" for a CB but ... no way do I put a drafting a WR before a stud TE.

If Philbin felt one of the TEs was well worth #12 or pk # 2A I'd be thrilled.
To me the an Elite TE has more value than a WR in the WC Off just from the perspective of
math alone. (3 WR to 1 TE)
What we need in the RZ is vertical dominance to compliment Bess & Hartline.

sug


My thing is, Philbin doesn't seem to throw it to TEs a lot. I think he puts more emphasis on WRs. Not that he doesn't want a good TE, but i think he won't jump after one


2007: Donald Lee 48-575-6, Bubba Franks 18-132-3
2009: Jermichael Finley 55-676-5, Donald Lee 37-260-1
2011: Jermichael Finley 55-767-8 3 other TEs combined for 11 catches

Seems like he goes to the TEs plenty when they're talented and healthy.


That's plenty? That seems good but not great TE numbers. The west coast offense spreads the ball around evenly. The WRs get the ball a lot more than the TEs. The TEs get more redzone looks and 3rd and long looks.

I didn't say TEs aren't important but they aren't the center focus on the this offense. Not enough to trade up for a TE in the 1st


It's way more than enough to invalidate the statement that he "doesn't seem to throw to TEs a lot." 92 catches from TEs in 2009 is way above average, especially in a system that tends to spread the ball around a lot. It's not like they had WRs catching 90-100 passes. The leader usually had 70-75 receptions or so, with Driver breaking 80 once and Cobb hitting 80 this year. Of course the WRs see the ball more than TEs, there are three of them. Finley was the 3rd leading receiver for the Packers in 3 of the last 4 seasons, and being the #3 target in a WCO is a pretty big deal. There's really no reason to come to the conclusion they don't use the TE a lot. Philbin uses them when there's a legit threat there.


The argument was mainly focused on the fact of not warranting the need to trade up for a TE. His offense has been proven to thrive without a top notch TE. I don't see them moving up for a TE at all. I see us drafting one but not moving up for one
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