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Upon further review...OLB

 
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Upon further review...OLB Reply with quote

I believe that the Saints currently have one OLB on their roster...Junior Galette who I believe is only capable of playing WOLB. Wilson is a perfect SILB...and would be a complete waste at OLB. His hips are too tight to run the arch and he doesn't have natural pass rush moves. He would be lethal blitzing up the gut from SILB where he can use his unrivaled (?) straight line speed, acceleration, and power. He length would also cause problems when he drops back into zone...which he has far more experience than man-coverage on TEs.

So the Saints will absolutely need not just one...but multiple OLBs...to fill out their roster. I believe that it will take both free agency and the draft. There are lots of good options available through free agency, including Paul Kruger, Shaun Phillips, Anthony Spencer, and Victor Butler.

The position of most concern is actually SOLB. Galette would be a servicable WOLB starter. But the Saints have NOTHING at SOLB.

Who is capable of playing SOLB in the draft? I came up with only a few names.

Jarvus Jones, UGA (Target Rd 1). Most well rounded 3-4 OLB in the draft. Can play OLB in just about any scheme imaginable. Would be the ideal choice for the Saints.

Dion Jordan, Oregon (Target Rd 1). He would have to put on at least 15lbs to man the position. That is a concern. He may just naturally be a skinny guy...and the weight may either hurt his athleticism or predispose to injury. Excellent pass rusher and will be excellent at covering TEs. Will need to put on weight and get stronger to be able to anchor. Can also play WOLB...but it would be taking away one of his greatest attributes as a coverage LB.

Chase Thomas, Stanford (Target Rd 2-3). I am falling in love with this kid...for so many reasons. He played 3-4 SOLB at Stanford and was solid in every phase of the game. He may not be as flashy as Jones and Jordan...but he actually may be better suited for the position. Excellent against the run...has the size to anchor...and can run with and cover TEs. Also has the ability to be a 6-8 sack guy. Want an Ahmad Brooks comparison from this year's draft? Here he is.

Jamie Collins, USM (Target Rd 3-4). My favorite prospect in the draft. Played 4-3 OLB for his first three seasons with USM...then converted to 4-3 DE. Showed ability to be capable against the run and in coverage as a OLB...and last season, despite being on a winless team always playing from behind, was able to rack up 10 sacks. He has impressive athleticism and can turn into a special player.

Brandon Jenkins, FSU (Target Rd 3-4). Was destined for stardom until a Lisfranc injury derailed his college career. If he is able to regain his health, he could be a true midround steal. Perfect size for OLB. Strong enough to anchor against the run, but will need to show change of direction ability in order to convince 3-4 teams that he can cover TEs.

There are some later round guys as well...but it truly turns into a crapshoot after the 3rd/4th rounds...so I am going to stop there.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Jarvis Jones. I think he's the best player in the draft, but his injury is really starting to scare me. I think he's going to take a Da'Quan Bowers type slide, and I think he might be off the Saints board completely.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
I love Jarvis Jones. I think he's the best player in the draft, but his injury is really starting to scare me. I think he's going to take a Da'Quan Bowers type slide, and I think he might be off the Saints board completely.


I'm a doc...and Jarvus Jones does not scare me in the least. UGA has excellent Sports Med/Ortho docs. I don't think that they would have cleared him if they thought that he could be at risk of paralysis/death. And that is really what we are concerned about when we talk about Spinal Stenosis. I am willing to bet that either his Spinal Stenosis was an incidental finding on MRI, or it was so mild that it was not thought to be a threat. Knowing the medicolegal landscape...docs definitely play it on the conservative side. I think that USC parting ways with Jones was for administrative reasons as much as medical. If they knew that he would turn into "the Jarvus Jones"...I am pretty sure they would have reconsidered his diagnosis.

If you took a C-spine MRI of every player in the NFL...you would be shocked to see how many of them had evidence of herniated disc/spinal stenosis. Dion Jordan/Damontre Moore/Bjorn Werner could all have it. Would you rather be aware of your draftee's medical history...or unaware?

Bowers was a completely different case. He showed up at his pro day lacking the attributes that made him a top 5 prospect. He clearly was symptomatic from his knee injury and it was easy to see that it was going to be a lingering problem. Jones...will show up at his the combine/pro day looking like the second coming of Von Miller.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammymvpknight wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
I love Jarvis Jones. I think he's the best player in the draft, but his injury is really starting to scare me. I think he's going to take a Da'Quan Bowers type slide, and I think he might be off the Saints board completely.


I'm a doc...and Jarvus Jones does not scare me in the least. UGA has excellent Sports Med/Ortho docs. I don't think that they would have cleared him if they thought that he could be at risk of paralysis/death. And that is really what we are concerned about when we talk about Spinal Stenosis. I am willing to bet that either his Spinal Stenosis was an incidental finding on MRI, or it was so mild that it was not thought to be a threat. Knowing the medicolegal landscape...docs definitely play it on the conservative side. I think that USC parting ways with Jones was for administrative reasons as much as medical. If they knew that he would turn into "the Jarvus Jones"...I am pretty sure they would have reconsidered his diagnosis.

If you took a C-spine MRI of every player in the NFL...you would be shocked to see how many of them had evidence of herniated disc/spinal stenosis. Dion Jordan/Damontre Moore/Bjorn Werner could all have it. Would you rather be aware of your draftee's medical history...or unaware?

Bowers was a completely different case. He showed up at his pro day lacking the attributes that made him a top 5 prospect. He clearly was symptomatic from his knee injury and it was easy to see that it was going to be a lingering problem. Jones...will show up at his the combine/pro day looking like the second coming of Von Miller.



Well, I can't argue with a doctor.. Lol. If that's the case, and his injury isn't as big of a problem as everyone makes it out to be, I see no way he makes it to 15. He's a top 5 player in this draft, and I had him as the best player in the country until the injury hindered my rankings. Pretty cool knowing we have a doctor in the Saints forum Cool
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sammymvpknight


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
I love Jarvis Jones. I think he's the best player in the draft, but his injury is really starting to scare me. I think he's going to take a Da'Quan Bowers type slide, and I think he might be off the Saints board completely.


I'm a doc...and Jarvus Jones does not scare me in the least. UGA has excellent Sports Med/Ortho docs. I don't think that they would have cleared him if they thought that he could be at risk of paralysis/death. And that is really what we are concerned about when we talk about Spinal Stenosis. I am willing to bet that either his Spinal Stenosis was an incidental finding on MRI, or it was so mild that it was not thought to be a threat. Knowing the medicolegal landscape...docs definitely play it on the conservative side. I think that USC parting ways with Jones was for administrative reasons as much as medical. If they knew that he would turn into "the Jarvus Jones"...I am pretty sure they would have reconsidered his diagnosis.

If you took a C-spine MRI of every player in the NFL...you would be shocked to see how many of them had evidence of herniated disc/spinal stenosis. Dion Jordan/Damontre Moore/Bjorn Werner could all have it. Would you rather be aware of your draftee's medical history...or unaware?

Bowers was a completely different case. He showed up at his pro day lacking the attributes that made him a top 5 prospect. He clearly was symptomatic from his knee injury and it was easy to see that it was going to be a lingering problem. Jones...will show up at his the combine/pro day looking like the second coming of Von Miller.



Well, I can't argue with a doctor.. Lol. If that's the case, and his injury isn't as big of a problem as everyone makes it out to be, I see no way he makes it to 15. He's a top 5 player in this draft, and I had him as the best player in the country until the injury hindered my rankings. Pretty cool knowing we have a doctor in the Saints forum Cool


Smile I just can't give medical advice...that would probably violate some kind of law. For entertainment value only.

Jones is going to be looked over significantly before the draft. His medical record is going to be viewed with a microscope by every team's ortho/sports med team. If he does have mild spinal stenosis (which is what I suspect)...then some teams may not clear him. Why? Because it may progress into more severe disease down the road. But if I am a Saints team doc I am not as concerned about that because I don't care if Jones is on my team for 10+ years. I want him for five years. Anything on top of that is gravy.

I personally think that JJ should go #1 overall. I think that he is one of the few game changers in this year's draft. There will not be fourteen team docs who write him off. Maybe a few...but not all of them. Only way the Saints sniff JJ is by moving up (which would actually not be a horrible idea even with the shortage on draft picks...because he, like Julio Jones, is probably worth it).
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see him getting by Rex and the Jets, but it's still good for us 'cause it allows Dion Jordan to slide a bit further.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Payton, Vilma is going to be an OLB in the 3-4
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
According to Payton, Vilma is going to be an OLB in the 3-4


So,

Galette
Lofton
Tez
Vilma

?

...[inappropriate/removed]' Vilma.
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Porter22


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
According to Payton, Vilma is going to be an OLB in the 3-4
What? Serious??? Don't know if I read this one right... Bit drunk right now! Laughing
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SWATcha


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
According to Payton, Vilma is going to be an OLB in the 3-4


Le sigh. So much for cutting dead weight
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, Ryan's going to LOL if Payton brings that to the table. Vilma has no place as a 3-4 OLB. He'd get man handled. MAYBE on 3rd downs strictly in a nickel role, either way hell be taking a huge pay cut.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Guys, Ryan's going to LOL if Payton brings that to the table.


Payton loves to be in control of everything, we all know that. He lets his DC take the reins for a few years and look how it turned out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan is on a pretty short leash when it comes to, well, everything.
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Guys, Ryan's going to LOL if Payton brings that to the table.


Payton loves to be in control of everything, we all know that. He lets his DC take the reins for a few years and look how it turned out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan is on a pretty short leash when it comes to, well, everything.


And I don't blame Payton one bit for that either.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Guys, Ryan's going to LOL if Payton brings that to the table.


Payton loves to be in control of everything, we all know that. He lets his DC take the reins for a few years and look how it turned out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan is on a pretty short leash when it comes to, well, everything.

Agreed but if Ryan says "Look, Vilma is in no way shape or form going to be a successful 3-4 OLB" You think Paytons going to say "Too bad. Play him there"? No way. Ryan will have complete control of the defense, Payton might have more say in who they sign/draft/etc. but if he is controlling who plays on the defense
A) Ryans going to leave very fast
B) Prepare for another top 15 pick
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thesolution


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The New Orleans Saints have work ahead in the switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense. The first task is to determine what personnel changes must be made.Coach Sean Payton believes middle linebacker Jonathan Vilma can still fit in the scheme."Yeah, I don't think anyone wants to place him over that guard bubble and have to take on that block," Payton said on Sirius/XM NFL Radio, via the New Orleans Times-Picayune. "And I think he's a guy that runs to the ball and has great vision, very instinctual football player. I think you take some of that away if all of a sudden he's playing over an uncovered guard and now his size becomes an issue."A lot of things may concern you with a player change. So, he'll play over on that weakside position and that will be very similar to what he did this past year. Curtis Lofton, who's a little heavier, will play on that strong inside Mike position. So I think that part of it for those two guys transition pretty well."Payton is confident Vilma has the range to play the position, but the New York Jets felt differently years ago when they transitioned to a 3-4 scheme and Vilma no longer fit. Payton knows his roster needs work. "I don't know that we have the pieces in place that we feel comfortable with, or certainly there's a transition," Payton said. Payton didn't discuss Vilma's contract situation. He's signed for $4.8 million with an $8.6 million cap number. The Saints need to lower those numbers since they're sitting about $20 million over the cap. 

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