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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


I half-way agree: I think ILB and WR are first round needs, unfortunately.

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.

It's a noteworthy feat when you are able to have the worst receiving corps in the league that still includes Andre Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that the Texans will likely still have gaping holes on their roster in September.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


I half-way agree: I think ILB and WR are first round needs, unfortunately.

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.

It's a noteworthy feat when you are able to have the worst receiving corps in the league that still includes Andre Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that the Texans will likely still have gaping holes on their roster in September.


I wouldn't say gaping holes. We're going to have anywhere from 9-11 draft picks, and if Rick Smith and his scouts want to keep their jobs, we need to hit on atleast 3 of those
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kenney


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
kenney wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


I half-way agree: I think ILB and WR are first round needs, unfortunately.

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.

It's a noteworthy feat when you are able to have the worst receiving corps in the league that still includes Andre Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that the Texans will likely still have gaping holes on their roster in September.


I wouldn't say gaping holes. We're going to have anywhere from 9-11 draft picks, and if Rick Smith and his scouts want to keep their jobs, we need to hit on atleast 3 of those


I would.

They're likely losing Barwin and they won't be re-signing Cody. They'll be cutting Walter, as well.

Those moves notwithstanding, the team already has major, need-starters-desperately, holes at WR, ILB, NT, RT, and DB.

The early cap number projecting that we will have $12.5MM in space seems to be roughly double the actual figure of ~$6MM, which means the team is going to be losing what little depth they have, as well.

This means that the Texans are going to have to hope they hit home runs on late third day picks, which they have never, ever, ever been successful with. We're not just talking about the relatively unlikely scenario that our first rounder comes in and is a competent and impactful starter, but also that the second and third rounders are more than just Brandon Harris-level garbage and that someone besides J.J. Watt can actually play football in the front seven.

The team is screwed.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wondered what a 6'3 version of Steve Smith would look like. That's what I see in Cordarrelle Patterson. I wish he somehow fell to us when we pick, but that won't happen. He is going to impressed teams at the combine.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
kenney wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


I half-way agree: I think ILB and WR are first round needs, unfortunately.

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.

It's a noteworthy feat when you are able to have the worst receiving corps in the league that still includes Andre Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that the Texans will likely still have gaping holes on their roster in September.


I wouldn't say gaping holes. We're going to have anywhere from 9-11 draft picks, and if Rick Smith and his scouts want to keep their jobs, we need to hit on atleast 3 of those


I would.

They're likely losing Barwin and they won't be re-signing Cody. They'll be cutting Walter, as well.

Those moves notwithstanding, the team already has major, need-starters-desperately, holes at WR, ILB, NT, RT, and DB.

The early cap number projecting that we will have $12.5MM in space seems to be roughly double the actual figure of ~$6MM, which means the team is going to be losing what little depth they have, as well.

This means that the Texans are going to have to hope they hit home runs on late third day picks, which they have never, ever, ever been successful with. We're not just talking about the relatively unlikely scenario that our first rounder comes in and is a competent and impactful starter, but also that the second and third rounders are more than just Brandon Harris-level garbage and that someone besides J.J. Watt can actually play football in the front seven.

The team is screwed.


First off, when you reply to this, Congrats on 11k post Kenney!

Cutting KW will add some cap room, and im sure if we are that up against the cap will restructure some contracts. And ya will have to rely on some rookies to contribute, but other than the 9ers every other team in the NFL relied on a rookie or 2 to make and impact this past year.
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PAtexansFAN99


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
kenney wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
kenney wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


I half-way agree: I think ILB and WR are first round needs, unfortunately.

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.

It's a noteworthy feat when you are able to have the worst receiving corps in the league that still includes Andre Johnson.

The fact of the matter is that the Texans will likely still have gaping holes on their roster in September.


I wouldn't say gaping holes. We're going to have anywhere from 9-11 draft picks, and if Rick Smith and his scouts want to keep their jobs, we need to hit on atleast 3 of those


I would.

They're likely losing Barwin and they won't be re-signing Cody. They'll be cutting Walter, as well.

Those moves notwithstanding, the team already has major, need-starters-desperately, holes at WR, ILB, NT, RT, and DB.

The early cap number projecting that we will have $12.5MM in space seems to be roughly double the actual figure of ~$6MM, which means the team is going to be losing what little depth they have, as well.

This means that the Texans are going to have to hope they hit home runs on late third day picks, which they have never, ever, ever been successful with. We're not just talking about the relatively unlikely scenario that our first rounder comes in and is a competent and impactful starter, but also that the second and third rounders are more than just Brandon Harris-level garbage and that someone besides J.J. Watt can actually play football in the front seven.

The team is screwed.


First off, when you reply to this, Congrats on 11k post Kenney!

Cutting KW will add some cap room, and im sure if we are that up against the cap will restructure some contracts. And ya will have to rely on some rookies to contribute, but other than the 9ers every other team in the NFL relied on a rookie or 2 to make and impact this past year.


Yep, AND I think there's a couple other guys in our front 7 that can play besides JJ. Antonio, Cush, Reed, Mercilus.. Our front 7 is pretty well put together.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


First off everything I've heard and read is that Cushing is ahead of schedule on his recovery and is expected to be back by next season, no one knows exactly when yet though. No I don't think ILB is a 1st round priority, I think there are bigger needs at WR and NT. A better NT will lessen our need at ILB and this is not a good ILB draft class, there's not alot of difference in the 2nd to 4th round guys, and if the talents not there you don't draft a 1st round ILB just based on need. The talent has to be there to justify the pick. I wouldn't mind having Ruud and Dobbins back in training camp next season as depth guys. I'd like to see what Ruud could do with a full year in our system, and I wouldn't mind having 1 run stuffing thumper (Dobbins) on the roster for certain situations. I'm not saying either makes the team but the added competition in TC would be nice and after we draft an ILB it would be nice to have some veteran depth behind the rookie. It might take a WR 2-3 yrs. to become productive, but you've got to start sometime or you'll just be paying high priced FA all the time since you don't want to draft one. I agree with shoring up the O-line and middle of the defense (NT), but good OG's can be found after the 1st round.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


First off everything I've heard and read is that Cushing is ahead of schedule on his recovery and is expected to be back by next season, no one knows exactly when yet though. No I don't think ILB is a 1st round priority, I think there are bigger needs at WR and NT. A better NT will lessen our need at ILB and this is not a good ILB draft class, there's not alot of difference in the 2nd to 4th round guys, and if the talents not there you don't draft a 1st round ILB just based on need. The talent has to be there to justify the pick. I wouldn't mind having Ruud and Dobbins back in training camp next season as depth guys. I'd like to see what Ruud could do with a full year in our system, and I wouldn't mind having 1 run stuffing thumper (Dobbins) on the roster for certain situations. I'm not saying either makes the team but the added competition in TC would be nice and after we draft an ILB it would be nice to have some veteran depth behind the rookie. It might take a WR 2-3 yrs. to become productive, but you've got to start sometime or you'll just be paying high priced FA all the time since you don't want to draft one. I agree with shoring up the O-line and middle of the defense (NT), but good OG's can be found after the 1st round.


Dude, Ruud and Dobbins are terrible. We had the worst ILBs I've ever seen on an NFL roster last year... Which position we take in the 1st is up for debate, and I agree that this is a bad ILB draft, but we had better plan on having a rookie stated at Mo if we want the sort of scheme flexibility the team is designed for.

Also, thanks lbjchris!
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
I always wondered what a 6'3 version of Steve Smith would look like. That's what I see in Cordarrelle Patterson. I wish he somehow fell to us when we pick, but that won't happen. He is going to impressed teams at the combine.


Yup Ive been on CP train for a while now. The guy is a beast
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Underwood


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.



No Posey?


amazingandre wrote:

Yup Ive been on CP train for a while now.


Am I the one that thinks this sounds really bad? Laughing
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underwood wrote:
kenney wrote:

Our ILBs were the worst in the league last year, but I want everyone to be clear on a couple of things as far as WR is concerned: we probably don't have the money for a FA WR, we'll probably be cutting Kevin Walter, and if we do that second thing, our WRs going into camp next year are Andre Johnson, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, and Jeff Maehl.



No Posey?




He's young, but tearing an Achilles is a tough injury to come back from and usually takes about a year to recover plus another year to return to the best they'll become post-injury. While he seems optimistic on his recovery time, I doubt he's back anytime soon.
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Underwood


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:

He's young, but tearing an Achilles is a tough injury to come back from and usually takes about a year to recover plus another year to return to the best they'll become post-injury. While he seems optimistic on his recovery time, I doubt he's back anytime soon.



Uh.. How did I not know this? I knew he hurt his ankle or something, but I had no idea it turned out to be that serious.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


So what if Cushing has a set back or is only 50% of what he was last year. And your saying ILB isn't a 1st round priority or would like to go with Barrett Rudd and Bradie james as a replacement. How did that work in the playoffs? I'm so sick of people wanting a WR in the 1st when its been show that it takes a WR 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL.
Shore up the OL and middle of the defense before thinking about a WR.


First off everything I've heard and read is that Cushing is ahead of schedule on his recovery and is expected to be back by next season, no one knows exactly when yet though. No I don't think ILB is a 1st round priority, I think there are bigger needs at WR and NT. A better NT will lessen our need at ILB and this is not a good ILB draft class, there's not alot of difference in the 2nd to 4th round guys, and if the talents not there you don't draft a 1st round ILB just based on need. The talent has to be there to justify the pick. I wouldn't mind having Ruud and Dobbins back in training camp next season as depth guys. I'd like to see what Ruud could do with a full year in our system, and I wouldn't mind having 1 run stuffing thumper (Dobbins) on the roster for certain situations. I'm not saying either makes the team but the added competition in TC would be nice and after we draft an ILB it would be nice to have some veteran depth behind the rookie. It might take a WR 2-3 yrs. to become productive, but you've got to start sometime or you'll just be paying high priced FA all the time since you don't want to draft one. I agree with shoring up the O-line and middle of the defense (NT), but good OG's can be found after the 1st round.


Dobbins is a decent back up/special teamer, but if he is starting your in real trouble.Rudd is just a body, and we can find a cheaper replacement in draft or FA. I'm not saying go into the season with AJ, Martin, Jean, and Maehel, but I would rather sign a free agent who has been in the league that we can bring in at a moderate price.(KW 2.0, but younger) Rather than having to wait 2 years for the lightbulb to come on for him to understand the NFL game. NT can be found in the 3rd day as well, and I was looking at RT not OG. I just don't see WR as #1 priority in the 1st round, but not saying it should be totally ignored in the off season either.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys

Voting on the Texans 1st round pick has began in the Draft section. It would be great for you to pop over and give your thoughts and votes.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=513776

Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
Ignoring all of Teo's issues for a little bit, to me ILB is just not a 1st round worthy position unless that player is just on a truly elite level. Patrick Willis is an example of a 1st round ILB that's worthy of a 1st round pick. I also don't see OG or Safety as 1st round worthy unless that person is just truly on an ELITE level. To me Teo is not elite and not worthy of a 1st round pick. Your 1st round pick should be an impact player or at least be at a position capable of making an impact. I also think we've got bigger holes to fill at NT and WR.


I guess I'm a bit confused with this - when Te'o was not known for his issues, there were many who considered him a top 10 talent, just a special LB who was destined to be a top 10 selection come draft time. Guy had sideline range, had solid awareness in coverage (actual coverage skills weren't special, but was aware enough to close gaps and get a hand on the ball in coverage) and was able to read how an OL was developing and meet a ball carrier in the hole. Prior to the whole Lennay Kekuha saga, the guy was touted as the best ILB in the draft, a "safe bet/can't miss" type pick that was equal parts character and on field capability.

Then, the news hits and the guy starts to tumble like a stone.

FTR - If Te'o is there at 27 and I had a say in the pick, I strongly consider him. Would I take him? Would depend on what WRs are available in the spot, but he'd make it a tough decision, that much is for sure.
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