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3 ways to go
Let Spencer walk, keep Ware & sign Melton
76%
 76%  [ 16 ]
Resign Spencer,trade Ware & sign Melton
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Resign Spencer, keep Ware & forget Melton
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 21

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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why shouldn't Ware be able to produce in a 4-3, just because he was draftet to a 3-4? So if Ezekiel Ansah gets drafted to a 3-4 team, he will never be able to play in a 4-3?

This season, the Colts changed to a 3-4. They had drafted Mathis for the 4-3, but he did fine as a OLB. And I would argue that the transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much harder. Also, Ware has lined up with the hand in the ground many times. We often have used the 4-3 actually, that position isn't completely a stranger to him.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DKDALfan wrote:
Why shouldn't Ware be able to produce in a 4-3, just because he was draftet to a 3-4? So if Ezekiel Ansah gets drafted to a 3-4 team, he will never be able to play in a 4-3?

This season, the Colts changed to a 3-4. They had drafted Mathis for the 4-3, but he did fine as a OLB. And I would argue that the transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much harder. Also, Ware has lined up with the hand in the ground many times. We often have used the 4-3 actually, that position isn't completely a stranger to him.


Ok, so that answers the question of where he fits in into a 4-3 scheme or Tampa 2. But the fact still remains that we need a DT, OT, OG, S with our first 4 picks. And with no money in FA to help contribute right away, we would have to hit on all 4 out of the gate.

Not to mention Josh Brent is out, Ratliff, he wont be able to play 16 games and 4 downs at the DT position. So we have no depth there.

Look, I'm only calling it like I see it. And right now we are going to have to part ways with al LEAST 1 of our vets for more picks. Hanging on to all of these guys will only result in this team being faced in the near future with a "sign them to a large contract extension or let them walk...ala Spencer."

And I fear we cannot do that for future purposes.

As for the Iggles and Redskins being dominant in 2 years, its just my opinion, but I live in Philly and I watched what this team was like when they first brought in Reid and, like it or not, he took them to a superbowl and 4 consecutive NFC Championship games and a 5th in 2008. Ok, he never won it, but he came damn close a lot and they dominanted this division for years.

Well, right now there is a much bigger buzz about Chip Kelly then there was about Reid when he first came here. I feel it is safe to assume that this division will be a 2 horse race in 2 more years as the NYG and Dalllas will continue to shuttle out the same faces they have been for near of a decade now. The only difference is the NYG have proven they can win Super Bowls with their faces, we cannot even make the playoffs.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Why shouldn't Ware be able to produce in a 4-3, just because he was draftet to a 3-4? So if Ezekiel Ansah gets drafted to a 3-4 team, he will never be able to play in a 4-3?

This season, the Colts changed to a 3-4. They had drafted Mathis for the 4-3, but he did fine as a OLB. And I would argue that the transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much harder. Also, Ware has lined up with the hand in the ground many times. We often have used the 4-3 actually, that position isn't completely a stranger to him.


Ok, so that answers the question of where he fits in into a 4-3 scheme or Tampa 2. But the fact still remains that we need a DT, OT, OG, S with our first 4 picks. And with no money in FA to help contribute right away, we would have to hit on all 4 out of the gate.

Not to mention Josh Brent is out, Ratliff, he wont be able to play 16 games and 4 downs at the DT position. So we have no depth there.

Look, I'm only calling it like I see it. And right now we are going to have to part ways with al LEAST 1 of our vets for more picks. Hanging on to all of these guys will only result in this team being faced in the near future with a "sign them to a large contract extension or let them walk...ala Spencer."

And I fear we cannot do that for future purposes.

As for the Iggles and Redskins being dominant in 2 years, its just my opinion, but I live in Philly and I watched what this team was like when they first brought in Reid and, like it or not, he took them to a superbowl and 4 consecutive NFC Championship games and a 5th in 2008. Ok, he never won it, but he came damn close a lot and they dominanted this division for years.

Well, right now there is a much bigger buzz about Chip Kelly then there was about Reid when he first came here. I feel it is safe to assume that this division will be a 2 horse race in 2 more years as the NYG and Dalllas will continue to shuttle out the same faces they have been for near of a decade now. The only difference is the NYG have proven they can win Super Bowls with their faces, we cannot even make the playoffs.


If we trade Austin, I think we should also trade Romo, and just go with Orton, while we develop a young qb. If we extend Romo, I think we should keep Austin.
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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
I just wanna say trading Ware is 100% stupid talk. NOT HAPPENING NOR SHOULD IT!


Ok, Kiffin is our new DC. He is going to run the Tampa 2 or some version of it, can we agree on that?

Ware was drafted, along with Spencer, to bookend the OLB positions of a 3-4 defense. Can we also agree on that?

The Tampa 2:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

As you can see, the Tampa 2 is a form of the 4-3 NOT the 3-4.

So, if Ware AND Spencer were drafted to be monsters in the 3-4, just where do they fit in the Tampa 2?

I mean, would you keep Romo to run the spread option?

Ok, back to Ware and Spencer. We can try them at DE. But with Ware's reputation for being a disruptive force in the backfield, he will be seeing many double teams.
This defense, and Ware's success in this defense, will be predicated on a fast, disruptive DT and a ballhawking S. And we have neither. We also have no offensive line.

So, here we go again, by the time we get all of these pieces into place and up and running, Ware will be passed his prime. So, just how do you see him fitting into this role?

Please understand, I can be convinced, and would love to be, if you can logically refute my stance on this based on facts, and educated guesses.


Dave ,Kiffin's T2D is his own variation. The Colts ran what was regarded as a T2D. Basically they were running a traditional 2 gap 4 man line without a 1 tech. They wanted their dt's to make the ot's committ so they could use their de's to get penetration. Kiffins version is different in that he has a 3 tech and a 1 tech which is a 4-3 under .Ware will play the "Leo". Think Simeon Rice. Ware was tailor made for that role. The 1 tech is what Rat played in Wade's defense as a gap shooting nt.

Dave don't get too caught up in the term T2D. There are multiple variations of it. A lot of fans think the safties will always be back in a pure cover 2. That isn't always the case. Sometimes the safties and cb's will invert and it becomes what is known as a 63 d.

A couple of things will be interesting to watch with the transformation. In all honesty I think Hatcher can play the 3 tech with Ware lined up at the 5 tech. What will be interesting is if they line up in an "over" and Ware has to play a 2 gap de . This is where we are dependent on the speed of the linebacker. Also if Hatch moves to the 3 do we consider a 1 tech as more of need ? Especially if Rat is let go ?
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
Justin Hoover82 wrote:
I just wanna say trading Ware is 100% stupid talk. NOT HAPPENING NOR SHOULD IT!


Ok, Kiffin is our new DC. He is going to run the Tampa 2 or some version of it, can we agree on that?

Ware was drafted, along with Spencer, to bookend the OLB positions of a 3-4 defense. Can we also agree on that?

The Tampa 2:

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

As you can see, the Tampa 2 is a form of the 4-3 NOT the 3-4.

So, if Ware AND Spencer were drafted to be monsters in the 3-4, just where do they fit in the Tampa 2?

I mean, would you keep Romo to run the spread option?

Ok, back to Ware and Spencer. We can try them at DE. But with Ware's reputation for being a disruptive force in the backfield, he will be seeing many double teams.
This defense, and Ware's success in this defense, will be predicated on a fast, disruptive DT and a ballhawking S. And we have neither. We also have no offensive line.

So, here we go again, by the time we get all of these pieces into place and up and running, Ware will be passed his prime. So, just how do you see him fitting into this role?

Please understand, I can be convinced, and would love to be, if you can logically refute my stance on this based on facts, and educated guesses.


Dave ,Kiffin's T2D is his own variation. The Colts ran what was regarded as a T2D. Basically they were running a traditional 2 gap 4 man line without a 1 tech. They wanted their dt's to make the ot's committ so they could use their de's to get penetration. Kiffins version is different in that he has a 3 tech and a 1 tech which is a 4-3 under .Ware will play the "Leo". Think Simeon Rice. Ware was tailor made for that role. The 1 tech is what Rat played in Wade's defense as a gap shooting nt.

Dave don't get too caught up in the term T2D. There are multiple variations of it. A lot of fans think the safties will always be back in a pure cover 2. That isn't always the case. Sometimes the safties and cb's will invert and it becomes what is known as a 63 d.

A couple of things will be interesting to watch with the transformation. In all honesty I think Hatcher can play the 3 tech with Ware lined up at the 5 tech. What will be interesting is if they line up in an "over" and Ware has to play a 2 gap de . This is where we are dependent on the speed of the linebacker. Also if Hatch moves to the 3 do we consider a 1 tech as more of need ? Especially if Rat is let go ?



Now THAT'S an answer, thank you. But we are still faced with the decision of who do we take early: a DT, an OT or an OG and in what order? Then you have to think S, possibly DE and then depth at RB, WR, and possibly QB. That is a lot to handle with only 6 picks and no cap room.
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Football Mensa


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave wrote:

Now THAT'S an answer, thank you. But we are still faced with the decision of who do we take early: a DT, an OT or an OG and in what order? Then you have to think S, possibly DE and then depth at RB, WR, and possibly QB. That is a lot to handle with only 6 picks and no cap room.

Dave the drafts were so abysmal for so long it will take more than a few good ones to restock this team. The strength of the draft is o line , d line and safety. Dallas needs to hit on it's first 3 picks and take advantage. It would go a long way in shoring up 3 position groups of this team.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Walshy wrote:
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject:
I am here to say two things.

1.Beat the Giants. I hate them sooo much. Tell DeMarcus to break Eli's face.

2. The Bears will not let Henry Melton walk. They will franchise him at the very least. In the event that he does walk, the Cowboys will become my second favorite team because Melton is my favorite player in the NFL. However, I will still cry for a very long time.

You guys should draft Sheldon Richardson!! He reminds me of Henry Melton. Quick, athletic, strong, and plays DE and DT.

Again, beat the Giants. I live in CT now and I'm tired of hearing crap from the stupid fricken Giants. If Melton does go to the Boys then I hope he sacks Eli repeatedly.

I hope you enjoyed another fan's perspective.

Have a good season!


I compare Richardson to a young Ratliff. He has that kind of motor.

How he is awful at the POA constantly getting pushed back.


Wingate are you talking about Richardson ? He is a pure 3 tech. That's his game. When Mizzou shaded him to the 2 tech he wasn't as effective. Still playing in the SEC the guy was a tackling machine. Compare his number of tackles against other dt's in the draft. He isn't as strong as Floyd but he quicker than Floyd. That's why Floyd would be optimal at the 1 tech. I would take either one so long as we get a guard within the first two rounds. Guard cannot be ignored in this draft.

I don't get it? The key to the 1-tech is penetration. Yes, when watching Eichardson his athletic ability stands out, but when I constantly see the man pushed back at the point of attack I am worried how he will stand up against NFL talent. He is not a 1st round talent to me more like a 2nd - 3rd. If he can't beat college guards and centers I am worried
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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Ok, so that answers the question of where he fits in into a 4-3 scheme or Tampa 2. But the fact still remains that we need a DT, OT, OG, S with our first 4 picks. And with no money in FA to help contribute right away, we would have to hit on all 4 out of the gate.


I don't think the need for DT is that bad. see below.

OT is a non issue for me. At worst, we get the play that Parnell provided us with last year, which actually was above decent. At best, we get the old Free back.

OG, of course. Rather take two.

Safety, of course. But very deep class, I still believe there can be found projected starters for that all the way down in the 4th.

Quote:
Not to mention Josh Brent is out, Ratliff, he wont be able to play 16 games and 4 downs at the DT position. So we have no depth there.


You don't know if Ratliff can play 16 games now when not being a 3-4 NT, an everybody can have a healthy season. Don't hate our depth that much, Lissemore didn't suck last year when we lined a lot up in the 4-3 towards the end of the season, and that was even tho he was coming of an injury. Price the FA who we have signed with, looked promising for the Bucanneers but got cut because he had a fight with their 1st round pick. I got some believe in this guy as well.

- The other DT spot is Hatchers, who haven't been injury prone and also is a guy who I think will take advantage of his new more aggressive role in this scheme.

Quote:
Look, I'm only calling it like I see it. And right now we are going to have to part ways with al LEAST 1 of our vets for more picks. Hanging on to all of these guys will only result in this team being faced in the near future with a "sign them to a large contract extension or let them walk...ala Spencer."

How can you compare that? for an example Ware already has a large contract, so when that expires our cap space eaqually increases which means there is the same money to re-sign him. And him being around 33-34 at that time, makes his pay lower even.

Spencer didn't have that big a contract before, and we had no reason to trade him either before since I think his trade value was limited after admitting taking plays off and since he far from putted up the play he has done under the franchise tag.

Don't get me wrong, I have started to want us to trade Austin for as low as a mid 3rd. But that's the only vet i'm interested in trading unless we get a must do deal.

With an extra 3rd, it could look like this:

1st) DE
2nd) OG
3rd) OG
3rd) OLB/FS
4th) FS/OLB

Maybe even trade down and get a extra 3rd if Ezekiel Ansah and the other top DE's and Cooper are gone. If Cooper is BPA, then just switch the DE and 2nd round OG pick.

We are lucky, this draft is strong on our biggest weaknesses.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Walshy wrote:
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject:
I am here to say two things.

1.Beat the Giants. I hate them sooo much. Tell DeMarcus to break Eli's face.

2. The Bears will not let Henry Melton walk. They will franchise him at the very least. In the event that he does walk, the Cowboys will become my second favorite team because Melton is my favorite player in the NFL. However, I will still cry for a very long time.

You guys should draft Sheldon Richardson!! He reminds me of Henry Melton. Quick, athletic, strong, and plays DE and DT.

Again, beat the Giants. I live in CT now and I'm tired of hearing crap from the stupid fricken Giants. If Melton does go to the Boys then I hope he sacks Eli repeatedly.

I hope you enjoyed another fan's perspective.

Have a good season!


I compare Richardson to a young Ratliff. He has that kind of motor.

How he is awful at the POA constantly getting pushed back.


Wingate are you talking about Richardson ? He is a pure 3 tech. That's his game. When Mizzou shaded him to the 2 tech he wasn't as effective. Still playing in the SEC the guy was a tackling machine. Compare his number of tackles against other dt's in the draft. He isn't as strong as Floyd but he quicker than Floyd. That's why Floyd would be optimal at the 1 tech. I would take either one so long as we get a guard within the first two rounds. Guard cannot be ignored in this draft.

I don't get it? The key to the 1-tech is penetration. Yes, when watching Eichardson his athletic ability stands out, but when I constantly see the man pushed back at the point of attack I am worried how he will stand up against NFL talent. He is not a 1st round talent to me more like a 2nd - 3rd. If he can't beat college guards and centers I am worried


Sure the key to the 1 tech is penetration but the 3 tech is more the pass rusher and the 1 is the guy who stops the run game. If you are referencing Bama vs Mizzou he had a tough game. Still though he made plays and he was shaded in. All that aside I want a guard in the first round.
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Why shouldn't Ware be able to produce in a 4-3, just because he was draftet to a 3-4? So if Ezekiel Ansah gets drafted to a 3-4 team, he will never be able to play in a 4-3?

This season, the Colts changed to a 3-4. They had drafted Mathis for the 4-3, but he did fine as a OLB. And I would argue that the transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB is much harder. Also, Ware has lined up with the hand in the ground many times. We often have used the 4-3 actually, that position isn't completely a stranger to him.


Ok, so that answers the question of where he fits in into a 4-3 scheme or Tampa 2. But the fact still remains that we need a DT, OT, OG, S with our first 4 picks. And with no money in FA to help contribute right away, we would have to hit on all 4 out of the gate.

Not to mention Josh Brent is out, Ratliff, he wont be able to play 16 games and 4 downs at the DT position. So we have no depth there.

Look, I'm only calling it like I see it. And right now we are going to have to part ways with al LEAST 1 of our vets for more picks. Hanging on to all of these guys will only result in this team being faced in the near future with a "sign them to a large contract extension or let them walk...ala Spencer."

And I fear we cannot do that for future purposes.

As for the Iggles and Redskins being dominant in 2 years, its just my opinion, but I live in Philly and I watched what this team was like when they first brought in Reid and, like it or not, he took them to a superbowl and 4 consecutive NFC Championship games and a 5th in 2008. Ok, he never won it, but he came damn close a lot and they dominanted this division for years.

Well, right now there is a much bigger buzz about Chip Kelly then there was about Reid when he first came here. I feel it is safe to assume that this division will be a 2 horse race in 2 more years as the NYG and Dalllas will continue to shuttle out the same faces they have been for near of a decade now. The only difference is the NYG have proven they can win Super Bowls with their faces, we cannot even make the playoffs.


If we trade Austin, I think we should also trade Romo, and just go with Orton, while we develop a young qb. If we extend Romo, I think we should keep Austin.


I don't think that the production falls that drastic with Austin injured a lot I think, since we got Romo who often makes his recievers look better. I think a trade of Austin just would make us put Hanna more on the field, and try and run a offence a bit similar to New England just not so complex and with running the ball some more if we get a decent o line. Dwayne Harris did show some promise last season, and again Austin has those issues with that hammy.
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JWingate


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Joined: 10 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Football Mensa wrote:
Walshy wrote:
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject:
I am here to say two things.

1.Beat the Giants. I hate them sooo much. Tell DeMarcus to break Eli's face.

2. The Bears will not let Henry Melton walk. They will franchise him at the very least. In the event that he does walk, the Cowboys will become my second favorite team because Melton is my favorite player in the NFL. However, I will still cry for a very long time.

You guys should draft Sheldon Richardson!! He reminds me of Henry Melton. Quick, athletic, strong, and plays DE and DT.

Again, beat the Giants. I live in CT now and I'm tired of hearing crap from the stupid fricken Giants. If Melton does go to the Boys then I hope he sacks Eli repeatedly.

I hope you enjoyed another fan's perspective.

Have a good season!


I compare Richardson to a young Ratliff. He has that kind of motor.

How he is awful at the POA constantly getting pushed back.


Wingate are you talking about Richardson ? He is a pure 3 tech. That's his game. When Mizzou shaded him to the 2 tech he wasn't as effective. Still playing in the SEC the guy was a tackling machine. Compare his number of tackles against other dt's in the draft. He isn't as strong as Floyd but he quicker than Floyd. That's why Floyd would be optimal at the 1 tech. I would take either one so long as we get a guard within the first two rounds. Guard cannot be ignored in this draft.

I don't get it? The key to the 1-tech is penetration. Yes, when watching Eichardson his athletic ability stands out, but when I constantly see the man pushed back at the point of attack I am worried how he will stand up against NFL talent. He is not a 1st round talent to me more like a 2nd - 3rd. If he can't beat college guards and centers I am worried


Sure the key to the 1 tech is penetration but the 3 tech is more the pass rusher and the 1 is the guy who stops the run game. If you are referencing Bama vs Mizzou he had a tough game. Still though he made plays and he was shaded in. All that aside I want a guard in the first round.

Sorry, I meant to say 3-tech. Actually, I believe the 'bama game was one of his better games. I watched the Tennessee game which was abismal and the Florida game.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate:

Quote:
Sorry, I meant to say 3-tech. Actually, I believe the 'bama game was one of his better games. I watched the Tennessee game which was abismal and the Florida game.


I think Mizzou tried to get too cute with him at times. Vs Tenn he was playing more 2 tech than 3.

Btw my number 1 ranked ot going into 2013 is Antonio Richardson. The Vols had a stacked o line last season. . Dooley was screwed with his defense. JaWuan James was outstanding last year for the Vols o line as was Dallas Thomas. Thomas doesn't get a lot of play on this board but he is a solid player. Still Richardson is a beast. He shut down Clowney until the final series of their game vs South Carolina. I like him more than Taylor Lewan.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wingate I have been accused of looking to far into the future with that said here is our 2017 first rd pick.

David Fangupo
RB
6'2" 350 lbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qxrTIU7VbyM
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