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JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.

I have no issue with committing to a ZBS, but the beauty of the ZBS is that it makes smart, average-ability linemen look good, good linemen look great. We also have to eat Floyd's full option bonus in one year if we trade him (plus accelerate the cap-hit of his remaining signing bonus prorations) - that means eating $2 million in dead-money cap-hit in addition to whatever Smith is making. That's a no-go for me.
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winitall


Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 2152
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.

I have no issue with committing to a ZBS, but the beauty of the ZBS is that it makes smart, average-ability linemen look good, good linemen look great. We also have to eat Floyd's full option bonus in one year if we trade him (plus accelerate the cap-hit of his remaining signing bonus prorations) - that means eating $2 million in dead-money cap-hit in addition to whatever Smith is making. That's a no-go for me.


According to the official spread sheets for FFMD we would only have 750,00 in dead money from Floyd and save about 2 million. We would take on 3 million leaving us with a net 1 million loss in cap room if this deal was made. This deal wouldn't really have any affect on our cap situation. Does that change your opinion on this deal?

Depending on what the exact offer I would be for this trade. We would get a guard solidifying one spot on the offensive line that we wouldn't have to worry about. We could easily use our third or fourth round pick on a WR in this class and get a player that can contribute.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winitall wrote:
The LBC wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.

I have no issue with committing to a ZBS, but the beauty of the ZBS is that it makes smart, average-ability linemen look good, good linemen look great. We also have to eat Floyd's full option bonus in one year if we trade him (plus accelerate the cap-hit of his remaining signing bonus prorations) - that means eating $2 million in dead-money cap-hit in addition to whatever Smith is making. That's a no-go for me.


According to the official spread sheets for FFMD we would only have 750,00 in dead money from Floyd and save about 2 million. We would take on 3 million leaving us with a net 1 million loss in cap room if this deal was made. This deal wouldn't really have any affect on our cap situation. Does that change your opinion on this deal?

Depending on what the exact offer I would be for this trade. We would get a guard solidifying one spot on the offensive line that we wouldn't have to worry about. We could easily use our third or fourth round pick on a WR in this class and get a player that can contribute.

I'm going off of spotrac's numbers and not the official spreadsheet (though that was supposedly created using spotrac's numbers). Rotowolrd confirms the existence of that $2.75M option. Now it's possible that we paid it in full last year and counted it in full against the cap considering we had the space to accommodate. I really don't see how bringing in a guy who is 31 with one year left on his contract is worth giving up a WR extended on the cheap who is a borderline #1 when healthy and who is signed inexpensively through when he'll likely retire.

Rookie WR's very, very rarely make any kind of impact unless they're elite talents. So we'd be downgrading our WR corps and committing to starting Meachem opposite Brown.

Really, I'm failing to see the failing to see the great value in this trade.
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lakeroy


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be in favor of a Floyd for Wade Smith trade. We'd still have Alexander, Brown, Meachem, and Royal at WR and we could always draft another one if that's not enough. Smith is one of the better guards in the league and would go a long way to helping solidify our Oline. Resign Vasquez and then all we'd need on the Oline is a couple of tackles
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winitall


Joined: 19 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
winitall wrote:
The LBC wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.

I have no issue with committing to a ZBS, but the beauty of the ZBS is that it makes smart, average-ability linemen look good, good linemen look great. We also have to eat Floyd's full option bonus in one year if we trade him (plus accelerate the cap-hit of his remaining signing bonus prorations) - that means eating $2 million in dead-money cap-hit in addition to whatever Smith is making. That's a no-go for me.


According to the official spread sheets for FFMD we would only have 750,00 in dead money from Floyd and save about 2 million. We would take on 3 million leaving us with a net 1 million loss in cap room if this deal was made. This deal wouldn't really have any affect on our cap situation. Does that change your opinion on this deal?

Depending on what the exact offer I would be for this trade. We would get a guard solidifying one spot on the offensive line that we wouldn't have to worry about. We could easily use our third or fourth round pick on a WR in this class and get a player that can contribute.

I'm going off of spotrac's numbers and not the official spreadsheet (though that was supposedly created using spotrac's numbers). Rotowolrd confirms the existence of that $2.75M option. Now it's possible that we paid it in full last year and counted it in full against the cap considering we had the space to accommodate. I really don't see how bringing in a guy who is 31 with one year left on his contract is worth giving up a WR extended on the cheap who is a borderline #1 when healthy and who is signed inexpensively through when he'll likely retire.

Rookie WR's very, very rarely make any kind of impact unless they're elite talents. So we'd be downgrading our WR corps and committing to starting Meachem opposite Brown.

Really, I'm failing to see the failing to see the great value in this trade.


Rookie WR's not contributing their first year is really to be overated and overused. If you go with just the 2012 rookies taken in rounds 3-4 you get:

Name/Catches/Yards/TD's

TY Hilton 50, 861, 7
Mohamed Sanu 16, 154, 4 (only played in 9 games)
TJ Graham 31, 322, 1
DeVier Posey 6, 87, 0
Chris Givens 42, 698, 3
Travis Benjamin 18, 298, 2
Joe Adams 1, 7, 0
Devon Wylie 6, 53, 0
Jarius Wright 22, 310, 2
Keshawn Martin 10, 85, 1
Nick Toon no stats
Greg Childs no stats
Josh Gordon 50, 805, 5 (supplementary draft)

Looks to me like 4-5 had pretty good years for a number 2 or 3 reciever. Not spectacular, but solid none the less. Lets say 25% were successful in their rookie years. Now lets compare that to Rookie Guards taken in the 3rd and 4th

Name/Starts

Tony Bergstrom 1
Brandon Brooks 0
Josh LeRibeus 0
Gino Gradkowski 0
Joe Looney 0

I'm seeing a lot more production from the WR don't you agree? So wouldn't it make more sense to move a WR we have a decent shot at replacing for an OG we would likely have to take in the 1st or 2nd for similar production?
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

winitall wrote:
The LBC wrote:
winitall wrote:
The LBC wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
MrDrew wrote:
Got asked about interest in Aaron Ross.

Also got asked about Floyd. Told them to make an offer, and they came back with having a ProBowl caliber OG on the block. Pretty sure it was the Texans.

Talk to me...


Wade Smith would pique my interest somewhat. But at that point, we're committing to a ZBS and losing Floyd is a major blow to a receiving corps now headlined by a guy even more fragile than Floyd.

I have no issue with committing to a ZBS, but the beauty of the ZBS is that it makes smart, average-ability linemen look good, good linemen look great. We also have to eat Floyd's full option bonus in one year if we trade him (plus accelerate the cap-hit of his remaining signing bonus prorations) - that means eating $2 million in dead-money cap-hit in addition to whatever Smith is making. That's a no-go for me.


According to the official spread sheets for FFMD we would only have 750,00 in dead money from Floyd and save about 2 million. We would take on 3 million leaving us with a net 1 million loss in cap room if this deal was made. This deal wouldn't really have any affect on our cap situation. Does that change your opinion on this deal?

Depending on what the exact offer I would be for this trade. We would get a guard solidifying one spot on the offensive line that we wouldn't have to worry about. We could easily use our third or fourth round pick on a WR in this class and get a player that can contribute.

I'm going off of spotrac's numbers and not the official spreadsheet (though that was supposedly created using spotrac's numbers). Rotowolrd confirms the existence of that $2.75M option. Now it's possible that we paid it in full last year and counted it in full against the cap considering we had the space to accommodate. I really don't see how bringing in a guy who is 31 with one year left on his contract is worth giving up a WR extended on the cheap who is a borderline #1 when healthy and who is signed inexpensively through when he'll likely retire.

Rookie WR's very, very rarely make any kind of impact unless they're elite talents. So we'd be downgrading our WR corps and committing to starting Meachem opposite Brown.

Really, I'm failing to see the failing to see the great value in this trade.


Rookie WR's not contributing their first year is really to be overated and overused. If you go with just the 2012 rookies taken in rounds 3-4 you get:

Name/Catches/Yards/TD's

TY Hilton 50, 861, 7
Mohamed Sanu 16, 154, 4 (only played in 9 games)
TJ Graham 31, 322, 1
DeVier Posey 6, 87, 0
Chris Givens 42, 698, 3
Travis Benjamin 18, 298, 2
Joe Adams 1, 7, 0
Devon Wylie 6, 53, 0
Jarius Wright 22, 310, 2
Keshawn Martin 10, 85, 1
Nick Toon no stats
Greg Childs no stats
Josh Gordon 50, 805, 5 (supplementary draft)

Looks to me like 4-5 had pretty good years for a number 2 or 3 reciever. Not spectacular, but solid none the less. Lets say 25% were successful in their rookie years. Now lets compare that to Rookie Guards taken in the 3rd and 4th

Name/Starts

Tony Bergstrom 1
Brandon Brooks 0
Josh LeRibeus 0
Gino Gradkowski 0
Joe Looney 0

I'm seeing a lot more production from the WR don't you agree? So wouldn't it make more sense to move a WR we have a decent shot at replacing for an OG we would likely have to take in the 1st or 2nd for similar production?

A single year sample size is a terrible argument. Even if we were to make the blind assumption that last year's guard class had the depth that this year's does (which isn't true) or that guards have shown to be able to contribute sooner in a zone-based scheme because the strength-differential is less impacting, due to scheme (which is true), you're tailoring the facts to fit your argument rather than making an argument supported by more than a single year's worth of facts.

The Colts threw how many times (a league high I believe) last season - and Hilton had the benefit of playing opposite a legit #1 in Reggie Wayne that any rookie WR wouldn't have here. Josh Gordon was another player that benefited largely from a combination of inflated reps (inflated in the sense his club threw a TON) and largely feasted off of the long-ball; he's also a supplemental draft player who, had he been able to stay in school for another season, likely would have been one of the guys at the top of this current class and a lock for a 2nd round selection at minimum. Sanu's stats are only reasonably impressive when considering his TD/gms total, but the guy was also playing opposite AJ freakin' Green.

I'm looking at this in the long-term sense, not just the "let's build the best single-season team we can" - because this is still a team that has to go through Peyton Manning and a pretty darn talented defense just to win the division next year. Sacrificing the future (like sacrificing a productive WR under an inexpensive contract for one year of an aging veteran guard who will be seeking upwards of $6-7 million per season after 2013) isn't a wise strategy.

Not to mention it sounds like Smith is being used as a package deal to try and get the #1 overall pick by the Texans.
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Zappaz


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So did Louis Vasquez not resign with us?
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kramxel


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loosing Floyd, and having to go with Alexander (injury prone), Brown (back from an IR season) and Royal (overvalued) would be terrible.

Just my 50 cents.
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Germanbolt


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say we keep Floyd. I would rather rebuilt for a couple of seasons then sacrifice our best or 2nd best receiver for a mediocre / average guard
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Pepere Gustave


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we should keep Floyd
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germanbolt wrote:
I say we keep Floyd. I would rather rebuilt for a couple of seasons then sacrifice our best or 2nd best receiver for a mediocre / average guard


Unless someone wows me I see no reason to move Floyd. I am really looking forward to seeing, Floyd, Alexander and Brown this year. I personally feel Gates is the trade option should we look to move one of our weapons but the value would have to be great.
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But I do feel Alex is better than Rivers and we may as well not even argue over it here because I am pretty sure neither will change the others mind.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

A few issues have arisen, and we are working to correct the issues. Estonianzulu has alerted us that he's going to have spotty internet connection for the next month, so as a result CWood21 is heading up FFMD. Also, TheVillain112 will be running free agency. Any issues regarding the general running of FFMD should be directed at CWood21 and concerns regarding free agency should be sent to TheVillain112 with properly titled PMs with clear thought processeses.

The timeline has been a bit lax due to circumstances that couldn't be foreseen, so as a result the timeline is being adjusted. Here's the new schedule.

Quote:
February 7th- 10 PM- Tender/Closes for EFRA/RFA/Franchise Players
February 12th- 8 AM- Contract Offers Open for tendered players
February 13th- 10 PM- Contract Offers Close for Tendered players
February 14th- 10 AM- Teams able to match contracts for Tendered Players
February 14th- 10 PM- Unmatched players transferred, matched contracts final

February 15th 10:00 AM- Talent Agency Opens Tier 1
February 16th- 8:00 PM- Talent Agency Closes Tier 1
February 16th- 10:00 PM- Tier 1 Signings announced
February 16th- 10:01 PM- Talent Agency Opens Tier 2
February 17th- 8:00 PM- Talent Agency Closes Tier 2
February 17th- 10:00 PM- Tier 2 Signings announced
February 18th- 10:01 PM- Talent Agency Opens Tier 3
February 19th- 8:00 PM- Talent Agency Closes Tier 3
February 19th- 10:00 PM- Tier 3 Signings announced
February 20th- 8:00 AM- Shark Tank Opens
February 25th- 8:00 PM- Shark Tank Closes
February 26th- 8:00 AM- Draft Begins


Any issues with the timeline need to be addressed ASAP to CWood21. Waiting until the issue arises will not help the cause.

Finally, we'd like to remind you that this is a group effort. Any staff member who is acting without the majority approval of his staff will be removed from his or her position after research into the incident. Consider this your final warning, regardless of whether or not you've stepped out of line before.

Thanks for your understanding,
Management
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone from the FFMD staff please PM me with a list of the RFAs/ERFAs that have been tendered/not tendered for your team?
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MrDrew


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirmed that Vasquez's contract was accepted. I don't see a reason to put Floyd up for a Guard.
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