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Why Jon Hankins is the right choice for Saints at 15:
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I really just don't like Hankins as a prospect.


Explain why with legit reasons that haven't been already shot down at one point or another.

You called him lazy I pointed out that he played the majority of Ohio States defensive snaps and was routinely chasing down plays.

You said he got no push, well I can easily go get his highlight video of this year which will show how often he's disrupting both the passing and rushing games, but when you don't look at simple stats you see most teams either ran spread and bubble screens against Ohio State keeping plays away from Hankins or double teamed him.

You said he doesn't use his hands well, well a 3-4 NT needs to eat space and take up double teams, that's more of a lower body strength which no one can deny that Hankins has.

So really what is there not to like? That he played at Ohio State?

I don't like Matt Elam because he plays out of control and constantly makes boneheaded plays like late hits/leading with the helmet etc especially when things aren't going well, but outside of that I love his game. I can also go and find numerous examples of him making such plays so my reasons for disliking Elam are legit.

I'm on my phone but I've given plenty of examples and you make excuses for him, I'm done arguing about it, and since when do I hate OSU players? I loved Jenkins when he came out and was pumpe when we drafted him but he's disappointed since then.


If there was one thing I knew I could count on in this post... it was the ensuing argument between Harp and T-Raves! Laughing

For real though... I absoutly HATED Hankins as a prospect in a 43 scheme. I felt he dident use his hands well and more than not lead with his shoulder to knife through lanes but I never undervalued his thick trunk, massive size and lower body strength. As a 34 NT I feel Hankins could be special. He is a load to deal with and can be a real space rated on the inside.

I was always impressed with Hankins ability to pursue for a man his size. There are things about Hankins game I don't like but he's played so many positions along the d-line at ohio state it's hard to get a good feel for him when projecting his game but when I watch what he does when lined up at the 0 tec, I am impressed with what he is able to do.

My final projection of Hankins is as a 34 NT he's worth a 12-16 draft pick but in a 43 scheme I wouldent touch him till the mid 20's.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I really just don't like Hankins as a prospect.


Explain why with legit reasons that haven't been already shot down at one point or another.

You called him lazy I pointed out that he played the majority of Ohio States defensive snaps and was routinely chasing down plays.

You said he got no push, well I can easily go get his highlight video of this year which will show how often he's disrupting both the passing and rushing games, but when you don't look at simple stats you see most teams either ran spread and bubble screens against Ohio State keeping plays away from Hankins or double teamed him.

You said he doesn't use his hands well, well a 3-4 NT needs to eat space and take up double teams, that's more of a lower body strength which no one can deny that Hankins has.

So really what is there not to like? That he played at Ohio State?

I don't like Matt Elam because he plays out of control and constantly makes boneheaded plays like late hits/leading with the helmet etc especially when things aren't going well, but outside of that I love his game. I can also go and find numerous examples of him making such plays so my reasons for disliking Elam are legit.

I'm on my phone but I've given plenty of examples and you make excuses for him, I'm done arguing about it, and since when do I hate OSU players? I loved Jenkins when he came out and was pumpe when we drafted him but he's disappointed since then.


If there was one thing I knew I could count on in this post... it was the ensuing argument between Harp and T-Raves! Laughing

For real though... I absoutly HATED Hankins as a prospect in a 43 scheme. I felt he dident use his hands well and more than not lead with his shoulder to knife through lanes but I never undervalued his thick trunk, massive size and lower body strength. As a 34 NT I feel Hankins could be special. He is a load to deal with and can be a real space rated on the inside.

I was always impressed with Hankins ability to pursue for a man his size. There are things about Hankins game I don't like but he's played so many positions along the d-line at ohio state it's hard to get a good feel for him when projecting his game but when I watch what he does when lined up at the 0 tec, I am impressed with what he is able to do.

My final projection of Hankins is as a 34 NT he's worth a 12-16 draft pick but in a 43 scheme I wouldent touch him till the mid 20's.


I can live with this evaluation.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hankins still needs to use his hands well in a 3-4, no ones going to double team a guy with no pass rush moves. I don't think he's anything more than a big body, which we can get in the mid rounds.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Hankins still needs to use his hands well in a 3-4, no ones going to double team a guy with no pass rush moves. I don't think he's anything more than a big body, which we can get in the mid rounds.


I agree. I don't really like Hankins. If we want a NT like that we can get one later like Harp said. Or we could live with Bunkley another year and get Nix next year. I also kind of want to trade down into early 2nd, pick up Eric Reid (or Elam if there) and stockpile picks.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jhankins.php

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/1/25/3915020/johnathan-hankins-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Posted more than one link as I wanted it to be backed up. As you can see pretty much backs up more what we think than you think Harper. Sure his hands need work, but that's a DL coach's job. You use what he has already and then give him some better coaching he'll be a BJ Raji/Vince Wilfork/Pat Williams type for us.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all honesty, looking at how this roster stacks up for a 34 I kinda wanna see how our current players pan out...

Jordan & Hicks on the ends should become a staple of the defense.
Bunkley has the ability to hold his own at NT.
Galette & Wilson could be terrors on the edge.
Lofton & Hawthorne seems like a stout tandem inside.

It's actually the secondary where my questions come in and I'd love to see a major shake up here. I know a lot of fans wanna see a pass rusher or nose tackle selected with that 15th pick but my personal preference is to trade down for picks and then select either a safety or cornerback. I really don't care which, just the one the new DC covets.

As I look at the front seven I'm comfortable going into next season giving these players there shot in this scheme but the back end I honestly don't feel comfortable with any of these guys!

Greer is aging and battles injuries the last few seasons.
Robinson is talented but extremely inconsistent!
White is young but in no way am I ready to call him a starting NFL corner.
Harper is way over paid and can't cover anything anymore.
Jenkins has all the talent in the world but his mental lapses and shoody tackling cost games.

I just can't find it to trust any of these guys... I think we need to start an overhaul in this secondary.

Desmond Trufant
Jonathan Banks
Kenny Vaccaro
Matt Elam
Eric Reid
Jonathan Cyprien
David Amerson

I don't care, I think any of them could help us... I just see our secondary as our biggest concern. Trust me, I get the want of the next Aldon Smith but who knows what Wilson and Galette will become in this scheme. Maybe we already have the next big thing at OLB but I doubt any of these cats in this secondary make the big jump next season.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jhankins.php

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/1/25/3915020/johnathan-hankins-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Posted more than one link as I wanted it to be backed up. As you can see pretty much backs up more what we think than you think Harper. Sure his hands need work, but that's a DL coach's job. You use what he has already and then give him some better coaching he'll be a BJ Raji/Vince Wilfork/Pat Williams type for us.

The difference is, your biased and I'm not. I don't know why you're getting so offended, I just think Hankins is a project and I don't want a project. We're a win now team and I think a dominant OLB is much more of a need than a NT with some major flaws, Hankins in all honesty is practically identical to Jonathan Sullivan coming out. Conditioning flaws, bad hand usage and relies too much on his legs. I don't even want to touch Hankins, we're not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disgree instead of going in circles over and over again.
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Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
In all honesty, looking at how this roster stacks up for a 34 I kinda wanna see how our current players pan out...

Jordan & Hicks on the ends should become a staple of the defense.
Bunkley has the ability to hold his own at NT.
Galette & Wilson could be terrors on the edge.
Lofton & Hawthorne seems like a stout tandem inside.

It's actually the secondary where my questions come in and I'd love to see a major shake up here. I know a lot of fans wanna see a pass rusher or nose tackle selected with that 15th pick but my personal preference is to trade down for picks and then select either a safety or cornerback. I really don't care which, just the one the new DC covets.

As I look at the front seven I'm comfortable going into next season giving these players there shot in this scheme but the back end I honestly don't feel comfortable with any of these guys!

Greer is aging and battles injuries the last few seasons.
Robinson is talented but extremely inconsistent!
White is young but in no way am I ready to call him a starting NFL corner.
Harper is way over paid and can't cover anything anymore.
Jenkins has all the talent in the world but his mental lapses and shoody tackling cost games.

I just can't find it to trust any of these guys... I think we need to start an overhaul in this secondary.

Desmond Trufant
Jonathan Banks
Kenny Vaccaro
Matt Elam
Eric Reid
Jonathan Cyprien
David Amerson

I don't care, I think any of them could help us... I just see our secondary as our biggest concern. Trust me, I get the want of the next Aldon Smith but who knows what Wilson and Galette will become in this scheme. Maybe we already have the next big thing at OLB but I doubt any of these cats in this secondary make the big jump next season.


I completely agree. I, too, am comfortable with our front 7. Except maybe Hawthorne.. But our secondary is trash at every position other than Greer, who's old. I'd love to trade into EARLY REAL EARLY 2nd round or later in the 1st and pick up Trufant, or Elam/Reid. BW Webb in the 3rd would be nice. If we get another 3rd from the trade, I also like Cyprien as FS. Completely revamp our secondary. It's actually great IMO.

2- Trufant
2- Elam/Reid
3- Cyprien
3- Webb

If we can get 4 picks in those 2 rounds. I am VERY comfortable with that defense.


Last edited by Spartica4Real on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Harp...

WHat if the Saints hired Ravens linebacker coach Ted Monachino as DC and he brought FA Paul Kruger with him?

That would give us a young talented SOLB entering the prime of his career. What you think of that combo?

I do believe Loomis will be able to finagle the cap to a point where we will snag at least 1 decent FA this offseason and if Monachino turns out to be the guy at DC... Kruger could be that FA.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Hey Harp...

WHat if the Saints hired Ravens linebacker coach Ted Monachino as DC and he brought FA Paul Kruger with him?

That would give us a young talented SOLB entering the prime of his career. What you think of that combo?

I do believe Loomis will be able to finagle the cap to a point where we will snag at least 1 decent FA this offseason and if Monachino turns out to be the guy at DC... Kruger could be that FA.


I.. LOVE that idea.. then we can do exactly what I posted above you and stockpile picks on those 2 rounds. Would be a great way to mold our defense.

DE- Akiem Hicks
NT- Brodrick Bunkley
DE- Cam Jordan
OLB- Junior Galette
ILB- Curtis Lofton
ILB- Martez Wilson
OLB- Paul Kreuger
CB- Desmond Trufant, Jabari Greer
FS- Jonathan Cyprien
SS- Eric Reid/Matt Elam
CB- BW Webb, Patrick Robinson

And develop little Corey White. Sounds like a winner to me. Especially if Donatell is DC, he'll make that secondary amazing.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jhankins.php

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/1/25/3915020/johnathan-hankins-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Posted more than one link as I wanted it to be backed up. As you can see pretty much backs up more what we think than you think Harper. Sure his hands need work, but that's a DL coach's job. You use what he has already and then give him some better coaching he'll be a BJ Raji/Vince Wilfork/Pat Williams type for us.

The difference is, your biased and I'm not. I don't know why you're getting so offended, I just think Hankins is a project and I don't want a project. We're a win now team and I think a dominant OLB is much more of a need than a NT with some major flaws, Hankins in all honesty is practically identical to Jonathan Sullivan coming out. Conditioning flaws, bad hand usage and relies too much on his legs. I don't even want to touch Hankins, we're not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disgree instead of going in circles over and over again.


You keep bringing up Sullivan but didn't he have just one good season and htat was it? Also what conditioning issues? Not once did they say he had conditioning issues, at least by the end of his junior year. Will he be able to play every down, no but what NT can? Even the best NTs come off the field a good amount of the time. And bad hand usage with great leg strength is by far the least of your problems when you are a 3-4 NT compared to a 4-3 DT.

You are just too scared because of Sullivan and Ellis. Well I'm going to argue that every player you want is a bad pick because of a previously missed pick. It won't be too hard to find someone to match-up with them especially when you are using loose analogies, not really comparing players or the schemes they'll be asked to play in.
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sammymvpknight


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
sammymvpknight wrote:
Too bad Nix went back to college. He is a far better NT than Hankins. Its not that Hankins is a bad pick...but at least we have a decent NT on the roster. We don't have a SOLB at all. If JJ, Werner, or Jordan is there...this one is a no brainer. We can get NT depth in FA or later rounds.


Werner as an OLB in a 34 would be a bust in my opinion... dude does not have the athletic ability to play in space. He's best at doing what he does, putting his hand in the dirt.

After really looking into JJ I would pass on him even at 15... just to much of a risk, Saints can't miss on this pick and can't afford a player that could honestly have a 4 year max productive career.

I like Jordan and Agree Nix would have been the cream of the crop at NT here. I do however feel Hankins would be a top level 34 NT in the NFL too though.


People said the same thing about Ryan Kerrigan and he has been a solid SOLB. He will need to prove his worth at the combine but I think people are underestimating his athleticism.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jhankins.php

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/1/25/3915020/johnathan-hankins-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Posted more than one link as I wanted it to be backed up. As you can see pretty much backs up more what we think than you think Harper. Sure his hands need work, but that's a DL coach's job. You use what he has already and then give him some better coaching he'll be a BJ Raji/Vince Wilfork/Pat Williams type for us.

The difference is, your biased and I'm not. I don't know why you're getting so offended, I just think Hankins is a project and I don't want a project. We're a win now team and I think a dominant OLB is much more of a need than a NT with some major flaws, Hankins in all honesty is practically identical to Jonathan Sullivan coming out. Conditioning flaws, bad hand usage and relies too much on his legs. I don't even want to touch Hankins, we're not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disgree instead of going in circles over and over again.


You keep bringing up Sullivan but didn't he have just one good season and htat was it? Also what conditioning issues? Not once did they say he had conditioning issues, at least by the end of his junior year. Will he be able to play every down, no but what NT can? Even the best NTs come off the field a good amount of the time. And bad hand usage with great leg strength is by far the least of your problems when you are a 3-4 NT compared to a 4-3 DT.

You are just too scared because of Sullivan and Ellis. Well I'm going to argue that every player you want is a bad pick because of a previously missed pick. It won't be too hard to find someone to match-up with them especially when you are using loose analogies, not really comparing players or the schemes they'll be asked to play in.

I'm not scared because of former busts, I'm scared because Sullivan and Hankins have the same issues and Hankins has conditioning issues he consistently gains and looses weight which how's a minor lack of work ethic. A few million can turn a minor issue into a major issue, I'm honestly done arguing this with you. You can get the last word if you please, I won't be reading it, you have too much bias for OSU players and you refuse to believe they have flaws.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Raves wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013jhankins.php

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/1/25/3915020/johnathan-hankins-2013-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Posted more than one link as I wanted it to be backed up. As you can see pretty much backs up more what we think than you think Harper. Sure his hands need work, but that's a DL coach's job. You use what he has already and then give him some better coaching he'll be a BJ Raji/Vince Wilfork/Pat Williams type for us.

The difference is, your biased and I'm not. I don't know why you're getting so offended, I just think Hankins is a project and I don't want a project. We're a win now team and I think a dominant OLB is much more of a need than a NT with some major flaws, Hankins in all honesty is practically identical to Jonathan Sullivan coming out. Conditioning flaws, bad hand usage and relies too much on his legs. I don't even want to touch Hankins, we're not going to agree on this so lets just agree to disgree instead of going in circles over and over again.


You keep bringing up Sullivan but didn't he have just one good season and htat was it? Also what conditioning issues? Not once did they say he had conditioning issues, at least by the end of his junior year. Will he be able to play every down, no but what NT can? Even the best NTs come off the field a good amount of the time. And bad hand usage with great leg strength is by far the least of your problems when you are a 3-4 NT compared to a 4-3 DT.

You are just too scared because of Sullivan and Ellis. Well I'm going to argue that every player you want is a bad pick because of a previously missed pick. It won't be too hard to find someone to match-up with them especially when you are using loose analogies, not really comparing players or the schemes they'll be asked to play in.

I'm not scared because of former busts, I'm scared because Sullivan and Hankins have the same issues and Hankins has conditioning issues he consistently gains and looses weight which how's a minor lack of work ethic. A few million can turn a minor issue into a major issue, I'm honestly done arguing this with you. You can get the last word if you please, I won't be reading it, you have too much bias for OSU players and you refuse to believe they have flaws.
]

Where has it ever been said he's gained and lost weight? He's done nothing but lose it. Just because you say you won't read it, we both know you will, but hey I guess you can keep thinking you're right...
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves, you're taking this FAR too personal. Put on your big boy pants, I don't like Hankins as a prospect, you'll survive. If you don't like Matt Elam as a prospect, that's fine and I agree he has some flaws that need I be fixed. You seriously need to stop getting so [inappropriate/removed] when people don't like OSU players, it's getting REAL old.
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