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RSkinGM
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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Location: Richmond, Va
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| What about Trent Williams.. He's still on the pre new CBA rookie contract. He needs to be signed to a cap friendly long term deal--probably now. |
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Thaiphoon
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| RSkinGM wrote: | | What about Trent Williams.. He's still on the pre new CBA rookie contract. He needs to be signed to a cap friendly long term deal--probably now. |
He is a candidate to be sure. If I were to do it, I wouldn't go beyond 4-5 more years. You never know when someone will be injured or how quickly their production will drop off. This would put Trent close to 30 and looking for his last contract. At that point we could then sign him to a new contract or let him go (depending upon the $$ he might command).
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RSkinGM
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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Location: Richmond, Va
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Thaiphoon wrote: | | RSkinGM wrote: | | What about Trent Williams.. He's still on the pre new CBA rookie contract. He needs to be signed to a cap friendly long term deal--probably now. |
He is a candidate to be sure. If I were to do it, I wouldn't go beyond 4-5 more years. You never know when someone will be injured or how quickly their production will drop off. This would put Trent close to 30 and looking for his last contract. At that point we could then sign him to a new contract or let him go (depending upon the $$ he might command). |
Wow, just read his cap hit next 3 years is $8M, $11M and $14.25 M .. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53069
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| RSkinGM wrote: | | Thaiphoon wrote: | | RSkinGM wrote: | | What about Trent Williams.. He's still on the pre new CBA rookie contract. He needs to be signed to a cap friendly long term deal--probably now. |
He is a candidate to be sure. If I were to do it, I wouldn't go beyond 4-5 more years. You never know when someone will be injured or how quickly their production will drop off. This would put Trent close to 30 and looking for his last contract. At that point we could then sign him to a new contract or let him go (depending upon the $$ he might command). |
Wow, just read his cap hit next 3 years is $8M, $11M and $14.25 M .. |
good thought. I think Trent Williams and Hall are the best candidates to be restructured.
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 mike23md
Days until:Days until:Minicamp 23; Training camp 67; Eagles @ Redskins 113 RIP SSF |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 17415
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | RSkinGM wrote: | | Thaiphoon wrote: | | RSkinGM wrote: | | What about Trent Williams.. He's still on the pre new CBA rookie contract. He needs to be signed to a cap friendly long term deal--probably now. |
He is a candidate to be sure. If I were to do it, I wouldn't go beyond 4-5 more years. You never know when someone will be injured or how quickly their production will drop off. This would put Trent close to 30 and looking for his last contract. At that point we could then sign him to a new contract or let him go (depending upon the $$ he might command). |
Wow, just read his cap hit next 3 years is $8M, $11M and $14.25 M .. |
good thought. I think Trent Williams and Hall are the best candidates to be restructured. |
Again, when you restructure a guy, keep in mind what that actually means:
Take high salary (non-guaranteed (in these cases)), convert it to signing bonus (guaranteed), and amortize the amount of the length of the contract (or extend it if necessary).
Hall
2013 - 7.5M salary, 0.3M signing bonus amortization, 0.5M roster bonus = $8.3M salary figure ($8.0M saved if cut)
2014 - 9.0M salary ($9.0M saved if cut)
If you restructured hall down to say a $1M salary, the other $6.5M then has to be spread across the remaining contract. In this case, you'd have to probably lengthen his deal to five years to make it work.
2013 - 1.0M salary, 0.3M signing bonus amortization (from previous deal), 1.5M signing bonus amortization (from new deal), 0.5M roster bonus (from previous deal) = 3.3M salary cap figure
GREAT ... except
2014 - 9.0M salary, 1.5M signing bonus amortization = 10.5M cap number
If you cut him, you deal with dead cap for awhile. You could renegotiate again (remember, you can only offer a new contract once every 12 months), but now you add even more guaranteed money to a guy who would then be on the wrong side of 30. If he were smart, he'd take very little in salary in 2015 and 2016 to force the Redskins to keep him in the face serious cap losses.
Williams is a bit more of an issue as to reading of the contract:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/trent-williams/
http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm#table3Likewise
spotrac has his bonus of $7.5M in 2011 and is amortized (giving the $8.0M / 11.0M / $14.25M over his last three years)
Warpath has his bonus of $6.5M in 2010 and was not amortized (taking advantage of the capless year). They have his final three years as $6.6M / $9.6M / $12.25M (they have the Redskins amortizing his signing bonus across the first five years of the contract whereas spotrac has it amortizing across the entire six).
I don't know which is correct, but I'd lean with Warpath since they're focused solely on the Redskins.
In either case, both sites agree that his salaries are 5.0M / 7.25M / 10.25M. Both also agree that he's due a $1.0M roster bonus this year, a $1.75M roster bonus in 2014, and a $2.0M roster bonus in 2015.
It doesn't seem like there's a lot of renegotiation space there. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Damn woz! You're just killing dreams.  jk, thanks
I still can't decide on Hall. I definitely don't want him to make that 8.3 million, he is not worthy of it, but I'm worried we won't be able to keep him if we cut him and then tried to re-sign him or what have you. I'm also worried if he's cut, we will have problems finding an upgrade.
The restructuring sucks as you explained and it will affect us down the road, of Course down the road we should have more cap space especially when the cap goes up after the new tv deal, so that might be the best thing to do.
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mike23md
Days until:Days until:Minicamp 23; Training camp 67; Eagles @ Redskins 113 RIP SSF |
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not even sure why we're talking about. This like the one thing Danny can do well. He sacrifices a goat at midnight during a full moon, and we're under the cap with enough room to sign whoever we want.
Now .... who do we want? |
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PSID412
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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Location: Bristol England
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Saw a report saying that we are looking to resign Josh Wilson to lower his cap number should be interesting to see if it gets done.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | I'm not even sure why we're talking about. This like the one thing Danny can do well. He sacrifices a goat at midnight during a full moon, and we're under the cap with enough room to sign whoever we want.
Now .... who do we want? |
funny!
But, are we going to have this discussion in every free agency thread? We aren't going to do what we did last decade which was keep restructuring aging vets so we could sign a few new free agents, then we'd get to the point where the aging vets were done and we couldn't release them without a huge cap hit because we had restructured them and put the $ off till the end of their contract and some of it was guarenteed ala Randy Thomas, Clinton Portis, Andre Carter, Randle El for example.
I don't see Bruce and Mike doing that, so I see us signing one worthy FA a safety and then some other free agents to fill out the roster and relying on the draft once again.
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mike23md
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| PSID412 wrote: | | Saw a report saying that we are looking to resign Josh Wilson to lower his cap number should be interesting to see if it gets done. |
restructuring Wilson would be nice and I think Hall would be good to do but I guess we'll see with Hall.
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mike23md
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Brent Grimes would be nice. Sebastian Vollmer on the right side would be a great addition. |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 17415
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | Brent Grimes would be nice. Sebastian Vollmer on the right side would be a great addition. |
I'd pass on Grimes, but if you can get Vollmer, I'm on board. I just worry that he's going to be expensive (yes, we've got cap wizards, but let's not keep going to well if we don't have to). |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-mailbag-feb.-1-ask-john/article/2520313/?page=2&referrer=/sports/redskins-confidential
| Quote: | Q: who do you think are realistic candidates for restructure? And of the players you name home much do you think it will save us? — @thekingrobert7
JK: Santana Moss and DeAngelo Hall are the two most likely candidates to have work done on their deals. The problem with Hall, who would count $8 million against the cap in 2013, is that he has two years left on his contract. So it depends on how long you see him remaining with the franchise. The reality is he’d likely have to accept a pay cut to remain. They can clear out all that cap space if they release him by June 1.
Moss will count approximately $6 million against the cap and has one year left on his deal. All the same questions apply: How much money do you want to shove into the future? This is why you need to develop as many young players as possible. … Jammal Brown will be cut, but if they do it before June 1 he’ll count $3.3 million against the cap vs. $1.1 million if released after (with the other $2.2 million on the cap for 2014).
They could always approach a Chris Chester ($4.3 million cap hit) or Barry Cofield (approximately $6 million cap hit), among others, about restructuring.
But to make a living off doing business this way is tough and it often just pushes headaches into the future. At some point hard choices will need to be made. |
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mike23md
Days until:Days until:Minicamp 23; Training camp 67; Eagles @ Redskins 113 RIP SSF |
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 17415
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-mailbag-feb.-1-ask-john/article/2520313/?page=2&referrer=/sports/redskins-confidential
| Quote: | Q: who do you think are realistic candidates for restructure? And of the players you name home much do you think it will save us? — @thekingrobert7
JK: Santana Moss and DeAngelo Hall are the two most likely candidates to have work done on their deals. The problem with Hall, who would count $8 million against the cap in 2013, is that he has two years left on his contract. So it depends on how long you see him remaining with the franchise. The reality is he’d likely have to accept a pay cut to remain. They can clear out all that cap space if they release him by June 1.
Moss will count approximately $6 million against the cap and has one year left on his deal. All the same questions apply: How much money do you want to shove into the future? This is why you need to develop as many young players as possible. … Jammal Brown will be cut, but if they do it before June 1 he’ll count $3.3 million against the cap vs. $1.1 million if released after (with the other $2.2 million on the cap for 2014).
They could always approach a Chris Chester ($4.3 million cap hit) or Barry Cofield (approximately $6 million cap hit), among others, about restructuring.
But to make a living off doing business this way is tough and it often just pushes headaches into the future. At some point hard choices will need to be made. |
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Re: Moss & Hall ... isn't that what I said?  You doubt the Great and All-Powerful Cap Wozard? |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53069
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Woz wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/redskins-mailbag-feb.-1-ask-john/article/2520313/?page=2&referrer=/sports/redskins-confidential
| Quote: | Q: who do you think are realistic candidates for restructure? And of the players you name home much do you think it will save us? — @thekingrobert7
JK: Santana Moss and DeAngelo Hall are the two most likely candidates to have work done on their deals. The problem with Hall, who would count $8 million against the cap in 2013, is that he has two years left on his contract. So it depends on how long you see him remaining with the franchise. The reality is he’d likely have to accept a pay cut to remain. They can clear out all that cap space if they release him by June 1.
Moss will count approximately $6 million against the cap and has one year left on his deal. All the same questions apply: How much money do you want to shove into the future? This is why you need to develop as many young players as possible. … Jammal Brown will be cut, but if they do it before June 1 he’ll count $3.3 million against the cap vs. $1.1 million if released after (with the other $2.2 million on the cap for 2014).
They could always approach a Chris Chester ($4.3 million cap hit) or Barry Cofield (approximately $6 million cap hit), among others, about restructuring.
But to make a living off doing business this way is tough and it often just pushes headaches into the future. At some point hard choices will need to be made. |
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Re: Moss & Hall ... isn't that what I said? You doubt the Great and All-Powerful Cap Wozard? |
i never doubted you woZ. I just thought if post John Kleim's article
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mike23md
Days until:Days until:Minicamp 23; Training camp 67; Eagles @ Redskins 113 RIP SSF |
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