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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | Jonathan Martin was one of the worst starting tackles in the entire NFL last season. He graded out in the bottom 5 of the entire league. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to put him in as our LT next season is high as a kite. If people want to let Long walk and find a cheaper alternative, fine, but the idea that we simply plug one of the worst tackles in the game in as our starter on the right side is ludicrous. Martin must get stronger. He must improve his foot work and he sure as heck shouldn't be given a starting gig ANYWHERE on the offensive line without competition.
As for Long, why is that people think that the light came on for Incognito late in the season, but the light can't come on for Jake Long? Jake Long had about half a season in the ZBS and, I agree, was mediocre. Incognito was gawd awful, definitely worse than Long, for the first part of the season. Incognito got used to the style of play and improved. I see no reason at all the same can't be expected from Long. With that said, I agree he is no where near worth 10 million a season. However, he was better than any offensive Tackle we had on the team last year and the film breakdown proves that. The only valid questions to me are, what is he worth and will he play for us for that.
If we let Long walk, which might be the right plan, then it looks to me like we need two starting tackles next season. Martin can't be counted on. |
I can't stress enough the issue with Jake Long is NOT play. He was average. Okay, great. Fine. The issues is the economics of the offensive line and his health. He has had sustained major injuries which have had a negative effect on his play on the field for the last 3 seasons. Injuries ENDED his last 2. He is on the Anthony Boselli train. Lit the league up first few years and out of the league in 7 because of health issues.
If Jake Long wants to come back and play for Miami for 5-6 million dollars, okay. I can live with that. I would welcome him back with wide open arms. But he wants double that. It's laughable. For a guy with knee, shoulder, biceps and triceps injuries/surgeries in the last 24 months, its LAUGHABLE. So I'm not about to waste 10 million dollars on a guy who is literally falling apart and has too big of an ego to know it just to watch him go down Week 14 with another injury when I can spend that money on 2-3 quality players for this football team. Give me Sebastian Vollmer and Fred Davis for approximately the same amount of money Jake Long is asking for. Would you REALLY rather have Jake Long over Vollmer and Davis? |
If you think Long will take 5-6 million to play for anyone you are crazy. If Long is tageting 10M+, he will definately get 8M. I also think you guys severely underestimate teams need for a LT. Miami is going to franchise Jake Long. Much the same way they franchised Solai. They have too. This would be a different arguement if Jonathan Martin did not show signs of being a bust. Martin is a liability and cannot be trusted to protect PERIOD. His number one job descripton is to protect and he cannot do it. Sure he may improve but there is not that improvement from one year to the next.
The right move is to franchise Jake Long and continue building the line through the draft. The real question is if they should pay Sean Smith, which I am not so sure is a good idea. He is far from a top tier cornerback. |
If Sean Smith gets more then 5 million a year he grifted someone bad. He could be a solid number 2, but is going to want top ten CB money and is no where near worth it. The CBs in Free Agency are pretty deep not to mention a good CB draft.
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | Jonathan Martin was one of the worst starting tackles in the entire NFL last season. He graded out in the bottom 5 of the entire league. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to put him in as our LT next season is high as a kite. If people want to let Long walk and find a cheaper alternative, fine, but the idea that we simply plug one of the worst tackles in the game in as our starter on the right side is ludicrous. Martin must get stronger. He must improve his foot work and he sure as heck shouldn't be given a starting gig ANYWHERE on the offensive line without competition.
As for Long, why is that people think that the light came on for Incognito late in the season, but the light can't come on for Jake Long? Jake Long had about half a season in the ZBS and, I agree, was mediocre. Incognito was gawd awful, definitely worse than Long, for the first part of the season. Incognito got used to the style of play and improved. I see no reason at all the same can't be expected from Long. With that said, I agree he is no where near worth 10 million a season. However, he was better than any offensive Tackle we had on the team last year and the film breakdown proves that. The only valid questions to me are, what is he worth and will he play for us for that.
If we let Long walk, which might be the right plan, then it looks to me like we need two starting tackles next season. Martin can't be counted on. |
I can't stress enough the issue with Jake Long is NOT play. He was average. Okay, great. Fine. The issues is the economics of the offensive line and his health. He has had sustained major injuries which have had a negative effect on his play on the field for the last 3 seasons. Injuries ENDED his last 2. He is on the Anthony Boselli train. Lit the league up first few years and out of the league in 7 because of health issues.
If Jake Long wants to come back and play for Miami for 5-6 million dollars, okay. I can live with that. I would welcome him back with wide open arms. But he wants double that. It's laughable. For a guy with knee, shoulder, biceps and triceps injuries/surgeries in the last 24 months, its LAUGHABLE. So I'm not about to waste 10 million dollars on a guy who is literally falling apart and has too big of an ego to know it just to watch him go down Week 14 with another injury when I can spend that money on 2-3 quality players for this football team. Give me Sebastian Vollmer and Fred Davis for approximately the same amount of money Jake Long is asking for. Would you REALLY rather have Jake Long over Vollmer and Davis? |
If you think Long will take 5-6 million to play for anyone you are crazy. If Long is tageting 10M+, he will definately get 8M. I also think you guys severely underestimate teams need for a LT. Miami is going to franchise Jake Long. Much the same way they franchised Solai. They have too. This would be a different arguement if Jonathan Martin did not show signs of being a bust. Martin is a liability and cannot be trusted to protect PERIOD. His number one job descripton is to protect and he cannot do it. Sure he may improve but there is not that improvement from one year to the next.
The right move is to franchise Jake Long and continue building the line through the draft. The real question is if they should pay Sean Smith, which I am not so sure is a good idea. He is far from a top tier cornerback. |
I agree with this. It may seem odd coming from me, considering how much I've defended Sean Smith, but I am not sure he is worth what he might get paid. Coyle has had great success with CB's and Smith's play deteriorated the second half of the season last year.
I would retain Long before Smith.
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ProudDolphan47
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5015
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | Jonathan Martin was one of the worst starting tackles in the entire NFL last season. He graded out in the bottom 5 of the entire league. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to put him in as our LT next season is high as a kite. If people want to let Long walk and find a cheaper alternative, fine, but the idea that we simply plug one of the worst tackles in the game in as our starter on the right side is ludicrous. Martin must get stronger. He must improve his foot work and he sure as heck shouldn't be given a starting gig ANYWHERE on the offensive line without competition.
As for Long, why is that people think that the light came on for Incognito late in the season, but the light can't come on for Jake Long? Jake Long had about half a season in the ZBS and, I agree, was mediocre. Incognito was gawd awful, definitely worse than Long, for the first part of the season. Incognito got used to the style of play and improved. I see no reason at all the same can't be expected from Long. With that said, I agree he is no where near worth 10 million a season. However, he was better than any offensive Tackle we had on the team last year and the film breakdown proves that. The only valid questions to me are, what is he worth and will he play for us for that.
If we let Long walk, which might be the right plan, then it looks to me like we need two starting tackles next season. Martin can't be counted on. |
I can't stress enough the issue with Jake Long is NOT play. He was average. Okay, great. Fine. The issues is the economics of the offensive line and his health. He has had sustained major injuries which have had a negative effect on his play on the field for the last 3 seasons. Injuries ENDED his last 2. He is on the Anthony Boselli train. Lit the league up first few years and out of the league in 7 because of health issues.
If Jake Long wants to come back and play for Miami for 5-6 million dollars, okay. I can live with that. I would welcome him back with wide open arms. But he wants double that. It's laughable. For a guy with knee, shoulder, biceps and triceps injuries/surgeries in the last 24 months, its LAUGHABLE. So I'm not about to waste 10 million dollars on a guy who is literally falling apart and has too big of an ego to know it just to watch him go down Week 14 with another injury when I can spend that money on 2-3 quality players for this football team. Give me Sebastian Vollmer and Fred Davis for approximately the same amount of money Jake Long is asking for. Would you REALLY rather have Jake Long over Vollmer and Davis? |
If you think Long will take 5-6 million to play for anyone you are crazy. If Long is tageting 10M+, he will definately get 8M. I also think you guys severely underestimate teams need for a LT. Miami is going to franchise Jake Long. Much the same way they franchised Solai. They have too. This would be a different arguement if Jonathan Martin did not show signs of being a bust. Martin is a liability and cannot be trusted to protect PERIOD. His number one job descripton is to protect and he cannot do it. Sure he may improve but there is not that improvement from one year to the next.
The right move is to franchise Jake Long and continue building the line through the draft. The real question is if they should pay Sean Smith, which I am not so sure is a good idea. He is far from a top tier cornerback. |
I agree with this. It may seem odd coming from me, considering how much I've defended Sean Smith, but I am not sure he is worth what he might get paid. Coyle has had great success with CB's and Smith's play deteriorated the second half of the season last year.
I would retain Long before Smith. |
To be fair, Sean Smith's play deteriorated after Week 4 
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | Jonathan Martin was one of the worst starting tackles in the entire NFL last season. He graded out in the bottom 5 of the entire league. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to put him in as our LT next season is high as a kite. If people want to let Long walk and find a cheaper alternative, fine, but the idea that we simply plug one of the worst tackles in the game in as our starter on the right side is ludicrous. Martin must get stronger. He must improve his foot work and he sure as heck shouldn't be given a starting gig ANYWHERE on the offensive line without competition.
As for Long, why is that people think that the light came on for Incognito late in the season, but the light can't come on for Jake Long? Jake Long had about half a season in the ZBS and, I agree, was mediocre. Incognito was gawd awful, definitely worse than Long, for the first part of the season. Incognito got used to the style of play and improved. I see no reason at all the same can't be expected from Long. With that said, I agree he is no where near worth 10 million a season. However, he was better than any offensive Tackle we had on the team last year and the film breakdown proves that. The only valid questions to me are, what is he worth and will he play for us for that.
If we let Long walk, which might be the right plan, then it looks to me like we need two starting tackles next season. Martin can't be counted on. |
I can't stress enough the issue with Jake Long is NOT play. He was average. Okay, great. Fine. The issues is the economics of the offensive line and his health. He has had sustained major injuries which have had a negative effect on his play on the field for the last 3 seasons. Injuries ENDED his last 2. He is on the Anthony Boselli train. Lit the league up first few years and out of the league in 7 because of health issues.
If Jake Long wants to come back and play for Miami for 5-6 million dollars, okay. I can live with that. I would welcome him back with wide open arms. But he wants double that. It's laughable. For a guy with knee, shoulder, biceps and triceps injuries/surgeries in the last 24 months, its LAUGHABLE. So I'm not about to waste 10 million dollars on a guy who is literally falling apart and has too big of an ego to know it just to watch him go down Week 14 with another injury when I can spend that money on 2-3 quality players for this football team. Give me Sebastian Vollmer and Fred Davis for approximately the same amount of money Jake Long is asking for. Would you REALLY rather have Jake Long over Vollmer and Davis? |
If you think Long will take 5-6 million to play for anyone you are crazy. If Long is tageting 10M+, he will definately get 8M. I also think you guys severely underestimate teams need for a LT. Miami is going to franchise Jake Long. Much the same way they franchised Solai. They have too. This would be a different arguement if Jonathan Martin did not show signs of being a bust. Martin is a liability and cannot be trusted to protect PERIOD. His number one job descripton is to protect and he cannot do it. Sure he may improve but there is not that improvement from one year to the next.
The right move is to franchise Jake Long and continue building the line through the draft. The real question is if they should pay Sean Smith, which I am not so sure is a good idea. He is far from a top tier cornerback. |
I agree with this. It may seem odd coming from me, considering how much I've defended Sean Smith, but I am not sure he is worth what he might get paid. Coyle has had great success with CB's and Smith's play deteriorated the second half of the season last year.
I would retain Long before Smith. |
To be fair, Sean Smith's play deteriorated after Week 4 |
really? I seem to recall good games all the way though the BYE in week 7. The entire defense struggled against the Colts and I never say Smith look the same after that. Not sure what happened. I know things changed a bit after Marshall went down, and perhaps coverage was rolling to Nolan Carroll's side of the field, but all I know is Smith wasn't the same.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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ProudDolphan47
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5015
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | Jonathan Martin was one of the worst starting tackles in the entire NFL last season. He graded out in the bottom 5 of the entire league. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to put him in as our LT next season is high as a kite. If people want to let Long walk and find a cheaper alternative, fine, but the idea that we simply plug one of the worst tackles in the game in as our starter on the right side is ludicrous. Martin must get stronger. He must improve his foot work and he sure as heck shouldn't be given a starting gig ANYWHERE on the offensive line without competition.
As for Long, why is that people think that the light came on for Incognito late in the season, but the light can't come on for Jake Long? Jake Long had about half a season in the ZBS and, I agree, was mediocre. Incognito was gawd awful, definitely worse than Long, for the first part of the season. Incognito got used to the style of play and improved. I see no reason at all the same can't be expected from Long. With that said, I agree he is no where near worth 10 million a season. However, he was better than any offensive Tackle we had on the team last year and the film breakdown proves that. The only valid questions to me are, what is he worth and will he play for us for that.
If we let Long walk, which might be the right plan, then it looks to me like we need two starting tackles next season. Martin can't be counted on. |
I can't stress enough the issue with Jake Long is NOT play. He was average. Okay, great. Fine. The issues is the economics of the offensive line and his health. He has had sustained major injuries which have had a negative effect on his play on the field for the last 3 seasons. Injuries ENDED his last 2. He is on the Anthony Boselli train. Lit the league up first few years and out of the league in 7 because of health issues.
If Jake Long wants to come back and play for Miami for 5-6 million dollars, okay. I can live with that. I would welcome him back with wide open arms. But he wants double that. It's laughable. For a guy with knee, shoulder, biceps and triceps injuries/surgeries in the last 24 months, its LAUGHABLE. So I'm not about to waste 10 million dollars on a guy who is literally falling apart and has too big of an ego to know it just to watch him go down Week 14 with another injury when I can spend that money on 2-3 quality players for this football team. Give me Sebastian Vollmer and Fred Davis for approximately the same amount of money Jake Long is asking for. Would you REALLY rather have Jake Long over Vollmer and Davis? |
If you think Long will take 5-6 million to play for anyone you are crazy. If Long is tageting 10M+, he will definately get 8M. I also think you guys severely underestimate teams need for a LT. Miami is going to franchise Jake Long. Much the same way they franchised Solai. They have too. This would be a different arguement if Jonathan Martin did not show signs of being a bust. Martin is a liability and cannot be trusted to protect PERIOD. His number one job descripton is to protect and he cannot do it. Sure he may improve but there is not that improvement from one year to the next.
The right move is to franchise Jake Long and continue building the line through the draft. The real question is if they should pay Sean Smith, which I am not so sure is a good idea. He is far from a top tier cornerback. |
I agree with this. It may seem odd coming from me, considering how much I've defended Sean Smith, but I am not sure he is worth what he might get paid. Coyle has had great success with CB's and Smith's play deteriorated the second half of the season last year.
I would retain Long before Smith. |
To be fair, Sean Smith's play deteriorated after Week 4 |
really? I seem to recall good games all the way though the BYE in week 7. The entire defense struggled against the Colts and I never say Smith look the same after that. Not sure what happened. I know things changed a bit after Marshall went down, and perhaps coverage was rolling to Nolan Carroll's side of the field, but all I know is Smith wasn't the same. |
I think the theory going around is when Marshall dropped out, Miami changed their secondary scheme to help Carroll and as a result dropped into a zone scheme that Smith struggled with.
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dolphinologist
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5356
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Connect the dots ....
Tag this dude and :
1. Don't complain when he doesn't finish the season
2. Don't start your fire Jeff Ireland campaign because he didn't bring in the shiny new Free Agents you want to fill every hole.
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IrishDolfan
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 6076
Location: Belfast, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| ProudDolphan47 wrote: |
I think the theory going around is when Marshall dropped out, Miami changed their secondary scheme to help Carroll and as a result dropped into a zone scheme that Smith struggled with. |
I believe they changes the scheme to be more zone than man coverage because Nolan couldntnt play m2m. Problem is Smith is a better CB when he is up in his receivers face.
Irish Dolfan
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| IrishDolfan wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: |
I think the theory going around is when Marshall dropped out, Miami changed their secondary scheme to help Carroll and as a result dropped into a zone scheme that Smith struggled with. |
I believe they changes the scheme to be more zone than man coverage because Nolan couldntnt play m2m. Problem is Smith is a better CB when he is up in his receivers face.
Irish Dolfan |
The question becomes.....what is the "normal" scheme for the defense? If the team is going to allow Smith to primarily play Man-2-Man then he may be worth resigning, but if they going to roll with a zone then it will be good to let him walk.
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IrishDolfan
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 6076
Location: Belfast, Ireland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | IrishDolfan wrote: | | ProudDolphan47 wrote: |
I think the theory going around is when Marshall dropped out, Miami changed their secondary scheme to help Carroll and as a result dropped into a zone scheme that Smith struggled with. |
I believe they changes the scheme to be more zone than man coverage because Nolan couldntnt play m2m. Problem is Smith is a better CB when he is up in his receivers face.
Irish Dolfan |
The question becomes.....what is the "normal" scheme for the defense? If the team is going to allow Smith to primarily play Man-2-Man then he may be worth resigning, but if they going to roll with a zone then it will be good to let him walk. |
At the start of the season it was more M2M than zone I believe. Coyle adapts his defense based on serval factors. Personel is just one of them.
Irish Dolfan
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MiaDolphan13
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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skatewood2
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5543
Location: Kent, WA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| MiaDolphan13 wrote: | http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-jake-long-wants-at-least-10-million-annually-772643.html
Would you pay jake 10 mil a year? I wouldnt exceed 7-8. But then i go back to thinking if we let him walk we create another hole. |
I don't see how we can pay 10 mil a year for an OT that doesn't fit out system. I agree with the 7-8 mil range at the very most.
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