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Olineman needed please!

 
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Olineman needed please! Reply with quote

We all know that our Oline was in shambles most of the season. Romo was out there constantly running for his life while trying to make plays, which led to too many INT's. Our running game was pretty much non existant.

We have argued over who needs to go and who needs to stay. Here is some reinforcement for that debate. PFF has come out with there Oline rankings for the season. Dallas ranked 22nd overall. That's down from 15th in 2011.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/2/

26th in Pass Protection
8th in Run and Screen Blocking (how they came up with that number?)
32nd in Penalties

Here is what they said about the Cowboys Oline:

Quote:
Stud: Never let us say we can’t be wrong. Nate Livings (+11.3) had his most consistent year as a pro in Dallas, making a mark with his run blocking.

Dud: It may be time to admit that signing Doug Free (-10.1) long-term just hasn’t worked out. There were too many games where he was taken to the woodshed by explosive defensive ends.

Summary: The Cowboys have put some money into their line recently, but the return just wasn’t there in 2012. Tyron Smith had an at times awkward first year at left tackle, while Mackenzy Bernadeau gave up too much pressure for an interior linemen. There is talent here, but like a lot of spots in Dallas you don’t always see it.


Here are a few more tidbits from another source to ponder.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/breaking-down-the-boys-nate-livings-2012-review-final-grade.html/

Quote:
The left guard allowed pressure on Tony Romo on just 1.9 percent of his snaps in pass protection, yet Romo went down 26.3 percent of the time Livings allowed his man to get through. In comparison, Bernadeau allowed pressure at nearly twice the rate of Livings—3.2 percent—yet Romo got sacked on only 20.0 percent of those pressures.


Quote:
Livings also outperformed Bernadeau in the running game. As I mentioned last week, I track three players as blocking at the point-of-attack on each running play, and the Cowboys totaled only 3.18 YPC with Bernadeau at the point in 2012. That’s bad. With Livings blocking at the point, however, the ‘Boys were a lot better, averaging 3.92 YPC.

Here’s the most interesting stat of all: Livings was at the point on just 86 runs in 2012, compared to 151 for Bernadeau, showing just how “right-handed” the Cowboys’ running game is when working the ball inside


I had stated earlier in the season that Livings was looking better than Burnadeouce and that Livings was a better option to keep around going forward. Kind of a poor mans Kosier. I still feel that way and that Mac should be gone.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/breaking-down-the-boys-doug-free-and-jermey-parnell-2012-review-final-grades.html/

Quote:
While Smith allowed three sacks and pressure on 6.0 percent of his snaps in pass protection, Free yielded seven sacks and a 6.2 percent pressure rate. Perhaps more concerning is that Free didn’t really improve as the year progressed; in addition to struggling badly in pass protection, Free also committed 13 penalties on the season


Quote:
In the running game, Parnell really outperformed Free by a wide margin. Parnell was at the point-of-attack on 18 plays and Cowboys running backs gained 91 yards on those plays—good for 5.06 YPC. That’s a limited sample size, but Parnell also appeared to be far stronger at the point than Free on film.

In comparison, the Cowboys totaled all of 2.58 YPC on 78 runs with Free at the point. On top of that, Free was at the point but didn’t execute his block on a sensational 48-yard DeMarco Murray run in Week 1. Other than that single carry, the Cowboys totaled 1.99 YPC behind Free all year.


Shocked WOW. I knew Free was bad, but holy cow, I didn't think he was that bad. This is a must going forward. We are going to have to shore up that right side of the line in order to move forward. Is Parnell the answer? I just don't know at this time. Unfortunately, cutting ties with Free, opens up another need for this team.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2013/01/breaking-down-the-boys-mackenzy-bernadeau-2012-review-final-grade.html/

Quote:
In 2012, I labeled Bernadeau as being at the point on 151 rushing plays. The Cowboys gained 480 total yards on those plays, or 3.18 yards-per-carry. Rushing efficiency behind interior linemen is typically worse than for offensive tackles, but 3.18 YPC is unacceptable for any player.


Quote:
It’s interesting because some others have compared him favorably to fellow guard Nate Livings, but I don’t see it. Bernadeau got manhandled on a consistent basis from the guard position, causing much of the pressure up the middle that you saw throughout the season. To me, that’s more costly to Tony Romo’s ability to get the ball downfield than Doug Free’s struggles on the outside.


I didn't list any of the info for Smith, because he is currently not up for debate amongst us and is here for a while. Lot of info here and some of it is really mind boggling. It's a no wonder that Romo struggled behind a porous line and our RB's couldn't get going on a consistant basis.

Time for an upgrade with youth and TALANT!!!!! It would appear that in order to move forward, we have to get better on the right side of this line. Cutting Free is a must and I would say cutting ties with the Bernadeau project may be another must. Both contracts are way over paid for the production that they garnished.
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, we are halfway home with this point.

IMO, these are the questions we need to answer:

1. How many years are we willing to spend building our O line?

a. 1 year
b. 2 years
c. 3 years or more

If you look at the 49ers, a team that has been to consecutive NFC championship games and now represents the NFC in the superbowl, they spent the past 5 years building one of the best O lines in the NFL beginning with Joe Staley. They had to trade away a 1st round pick from their next year's draft to get him in 2007. But the gamble has paid off.

2. How can we aquire more quailty picks this year to begin building a solid O line?

a. trade back in the 1st round and pick up another 2nd
b. trade a veteran player that will garner a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick
c. trade away future considerations

3. Who can we afford via free agencey?

a. Andy Levitre, G, Bills. Age: 27.
Andy Levitre is a stud guard who excels in pass protection. He also showed off his versatility, playing decently at left tackle in some games in 2011.

b. Louis Vasquez, G, Chargers. Age: 26.
Louis Vasquez parlayed a strong offseason with a great 2012 campaign. He was rock solid in an otherwise pedestrian offensive front. He should be heavily compensated.

c. Donald Thomas, G, Patriots. Age: 27.
Donald Thomas didn't get to play very much behind Logan Mankins and Dan Connolly, but when he did, he definitely made the most of it. He could be a starter on many teams.

d. Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Patriots. Age: 29.
Sebastian Vollmer is arguably the top right tackle in football - but not when he has to go up against Cameron wake.

e. Ryan Clady, OT, Broncos. Age: 26.
Ryan Clady is not a very good run-blocker, but he surrendered just one sack in 2012. Of course, part of that is Peyton Manning releasing the ball quickly, but Clady was still very sound in protection.

f. Other

4. If we do look to build through the draft/ FA and it takes more than 2 years, where do you see our veteran core players and their trade value? (I'm excluding serious injury as a factor)

a. In their primes- no need to trade them OR high trade value
b. Situational players- mid round trade value
c. Past their primes- trade value of 5th round or later

Just some food for thought.
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope this makes ppl realize Livings is our second best o linemen. I know there are some on here that realize this already, but there are others that dont want to see him take another snap in a cowboys uniform.
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CowboysTilIDie


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dboys88-82 wrote:
Hope this makes ppl realize Livings is our second best o linemen. I know there are some on here that realize this already, but there are others that dont want to see him take another snap in a cowboys uniform.


He shouldn't. He was outplayed down the stretch by Burnindeuce imo and some stats on "pressures resulting in sacks" aren't going to change that fact. Burnindeuce got better and is more versatile. Livings got worse and isn't versatile. I don't want either one back, but of the two, I take Burnindeuce.
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sodakcowboy78


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still dont know why Dallas cant just draft OL and let these guys play...i mean look at all the wasted picks on guys that need to be "developed"...Dallas could of completely rebuilt their OL in two years with young studs and yet...boom...

This year will be no different...any real Dallas fan out there knows Free will be the RT and and either Mac or Leary RG and Costa C and Livings will play LG and Smith LT...Dallas will spend any FA money and most Draft picks on Defense beefing up the line and safety spots...if there is an OL pick in the draft it will most likely come in the later rounds with the tag...developmental project over the next 3 years

I personally would like to see Killer K and Leary get their shots and Parnell play the RT position the entire year without rotating. Cant get any worse than what we saw in 2012.

Dont get me wrong...I like the pick of Mo in round one and Crawford in round three...but Wilber in round four...Dalls could of drafted Decastro and B Brooks in rounds one and two then come back in round 3 with Bobbie Massy and traded up to get Philip Blake in round 4

There u have it...Smith...Decastro...Blake...BBrooks...Massy


So hopefully some knucklehead in the Dallas Cowboy front office will realize the game is won in the trenches...rebuild both lines over the next two years and get this show on the road


Peace
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sodakcowboy78 wrote:
So hopefully some knucklehead in the Dallas Cowboy front office will realize the game is won in the trenches...rebuild both lines over the next two years and get this show on the road


It won't happen. Jerry is too busy talking himself into believing that a DB will improve an entire defense and thus make the offense better without actually addressing the o-line with viable guys while continuing to ignore the d-line. It's who he is. Skill position players and CBs sell jerseys. O-linemen and d-linemen don't. As long as he cherishes money more than winning and refuses to bring in football people who are willing to put him in his place and tell him what he needs to hear as opposed to being "yes" men, this is what we'll get. He'll waste valuable draft picks on players who won't make their respective units better and go on the cheap in the areas which will.

And people on this very forum will defend the decisions and praise him for doing it. Just like they do every year. Even in 2009.
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DKDALfan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Ok, we are halfway home with this point.

IMO, these are the questions we need to answer:

1. How many years are we willing to spend building our O line?

a. 1 year
b. 2 years
c. 3 years or more


2. How can we aquire more quailty picks this year to begin building a solid O line?

a. trade back in the 1st round and pick up another 2nd
b. trade a veteran player that will garner a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick
c. trade away future considerations

3. Who can we afford via free agencey?

a. Andy Levitre, G, Bills. Age: 27.
Andy Levitre is a stud guard who excels in pass protection. He also showed off his versatility, playing decently at left tackle in some games in 2011.

b. Louis Vasquez, G, Chargers. Age: 26.
Louis Vasquez parlayed a strong offseason with a great 2012 campaign. He was rock solid in an otherwise pedestrian offensive front. He should be heavily compensated.

c. Donald Thomas, G, Patriots. Age: 27.
Donald Thomas didn't get to play very much behind Logan Mankins and Dan Connolly, but when he did, he definitely made the most of it. He could be a starter on many teams.

d. Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Patriots. Age: 29.
Sebastian Vollmer is arguably the top right tackle in football - but not when he has to go up against Cameron wake.

e. Ryan Clady, OT, Broncos. Age: 26.
Ryan Clady is not a very good run-blocker, but he surrendered just one sack in 2012. Of course, part of that is Peyton Manning releasing the ball quickly, but Clady was still very sound in protection.

f. Other

g. NONE

Just some food for thought.


This would be what I would prefer.

- A guard in the 1st (Cooper), and a guard in the 2nd. If not, then the BPA in the 1st, a guard in the 2nd, trade back in to the 2nd again with a late pick and next years 2nd.

I really want to see us get two guards, with such a strong guard class.


Good find, Textaz03. I've always felt that Livings was the better player as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
sodakcowboy78 wrote:
So hopefully some knucklehead in the Dallas Cowboy front office will realize the game is won in the trenches...rebuild both lines over the next two years and get this show on the road


It won't happen. Jerry is too busy talking himself into believing that a DB will improve an entire defense and thus make the offense better without actually addressing the o-line with viable guys while continuing to ignore the d-line. It's who he is. Skill position players and CBs sell jerseys. O-linemen and d-linemen don't. As long as he cherishes money more than winning and refuses to bring in football people who are willing to put him in his place and tell him what he needs to hear as opposed to being "yes" men, this is what we'll get. He'll waste valuable draft picks on players who won't make their respective units better and go on the cheap in the areas which will.

And people on this very forum will defend the decisions and praise him for doing it. Just like they do every year. Even in 2009.


Plan everyone in the world can see the problem except Jerry. It's really a simple formula and yet the gm can't follow it.

Dallas would be wise to make sure they get two stud o linemen in this draft. It's absolutely imperative and here's why. The chances of Romo being here for an extended period of time is very likely. As he gets older and slows down he will need even more protection.

They also need to address the d line just as well. Dallas is cartoon of a franchise right now. They have been a joke for a long time because they refuse to follow the simple rules of building a team. Jerry always has a different view as how to build a team. It always wrong. It doesn't work. This is an opportunity to finally right some wrongs. Sad part is those who believe in Jerry have the rug pulled out from under them every year.
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