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CW21's Packers Mock Draft v2013.02
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jfinley88


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 11499
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
I think the Riddick pick forces out Rob Francois and Jamari Lattimore more than anything. Rob Francois has had his plays but he hasn't done much since. Barring a phenomenal training camp/preseason, that all but seals his fate.


Either way, however, we need to seriously address that secondary. Some might still be hung up on Slowpoke Williams' 2010 season: get over it, it's 2013 and he desperately needs to be replaced. He shouldn't make the final 53, especially with that cap hating contract. I'd be more comfortable with a project player, rather than someone with a 4.6 40 time who, frankly, can't play zone or any other scheme we seem to want to run.


I wouldn't say slow. But his lack of effort in the run game has made me lose a lot of respect...
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 4467
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfinley88 wrote:
NCPackFan wrote:
I think the Riddick pick forces out Rob Francois and Jamari Lattimore more than anything. Rob Francois has had his plays but he hasn't done much since. Barring a phenomenal training camp/preseason, that all but seals his fate.


Either way, however, we need to seriously address that secondary. Some might still be hung up on Slowpoke Williams' 2010 season: get over it, it's 2013 and he desperately needs to be replaced. He shouldn't make the final 53, especially with that cap hating contract. I'd be more comfortable with a project player, rather than someone with a 4.6 40 time who, frankly, can't play zone or any other scheme we seem to want to run.


I wouldn't say slow. But his lack of effort in the run game has made me lose a lot of respect...


Seriously? Shocked

No one else is getting a little disturbed by this troll?
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13894
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
jfinley88 wrote:
NCPackFan wrote:
I think the Riddick pick forces out Rob Francois and Jamari Lattimore more than anything. Rob Francois has had his plays but he hasn't done much since. Barring a phenomenal training camp/preseason, that all but seals his fate.


Either way, however, we need to seriously address that secondary. Some might still be hung up on Slowpoke Williams' 2010 season: get over it, it's 2013 and he desperately needs to be replaced. He shouldn't make the final 53, especially with that cap hating contract. I'd be more comfortable with a project player, rather than someone with a 4.6 40 time who, frankly, can't play zone or any other scheme we seem to want to run.


I wouldn't say slow. But his lack of effort in the run game has made me lose a lot of respect...


Seriously? Shocked

No one else is getting a little disturbed by this troll?


LIS in the Hayward page, Williams ran 4.46 on grass before the draft that year. There is also more than enough film of him running damn near step for step with Johnson on a 9. CJ might not be as quick as some but his long speed is off the charts.

At some point ya just need to sit back in laugh when a man is willing to show over and over again that he has no clue what he is talking about. Williams has one sub par forty on record(4.57 at his pro-day). Those things happen. Like MANY others, he came back and put up good numbers. Anything sub 4.5 on grass is real damn fast now and will be 20 years from now! Williams did so with no speed coach.

Man has his issues. But he is sure as hell fast enough!
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
jfinley88 wrote:
NCPackFan wrote:
I think the Riddick pick forces out Rob Francois and Jamari Lattimore more than anything. Rob Francois has had his plays but he hasn't done much since. Barring a phenomenal training camp/preseason, that all but seals his fate.


Either way, however, we need to seriously address that secondary. Some might still be hung up on Slowpoke Williams' 2010 season: get over it, it's 2013 and he desperately needs to be replaced. He shouldn't make the final 53, especially with that cap hating contract. I'd be more comfortable with a project player, rather than someone with a 4.6 40 time who, frankly, can't play zone or any other scheme we seem to want to run.


I wouldn't say slow. But his lack of effort in the run game has made me lose a lot of respect...


Seriously? Shocked

No one else is getting a little disturbed by this troll?


LIS in the Hayward page, Williams ran 4.46 on grass before the draft that year. There is also more than enough film of him running damn near step for step with Johnson on a 9. CJ might not be as quick as some but his long speed is off the charts.

At some point ya just need to sit back in laugh when a man is willing to show over and over again that he has no clue what he is talking about. Williams has one sub par forty on record(4.57 at his pro-day). Those things happen. Like MANY others, he came back and put up good numbers. Anything sub 4.5 on grass is real damn fast now and will be 20 years from now! Williams did so with no speed coach.

Man has his issues. But he is sure as hell fast enough!


Thank you.

Williams' speed isn't an issue nor should it be. Harris was never a burner was he? He was a top ten corner for quite a bit of time.

Tackling and physicality, on the other hand, may be an issue. But cut a 29 year old corner with top-end man to man abilities? Please.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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CornOnDaCobb


Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 523
Location: Tampa, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really like this mock. Like others have said, could go safety earlier but you always go BPA above anything else.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4119
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
jfinley88 wrote:
NCPackFan wrote:
I think the Riddick pick forces out Rob Francois and Jamari Lattimore more than anything. Rob Francois has had his plays but he hasn't done much since. Barring a phenomenal training camp/preseason, that all but seals his fate.


Either way, however, we need to seriously address that secondary. Some might still be hung up on Slowpoke Williams' 2010 season: get over it, it's 2013 and he desperately needs to be replaced. He shouldn't make the final 53, especially with that cap hating contract. I'd be more comfortable with a project player, rather than someone with a 4.6 40 time who, frankly, can't play zone or any other scheme we seem to want to run.


I wouldn't say slow. But his lack of effort in the run game has made me lose a lot of respect...


Seriously? Shocked

No one else is getting a little disturbed by this troll?


You need to learn how to just ignore someone that doesn't really know what they are talking about. There are a few you just let discredit themselves and move on. Pretty sure almost everyone knows T-Will is fine in coverage, he just needs to re-find that run support he provided before the injury. I think everyone will really like the physical effort of Hayward and House after his shoulder is fixed this offseason. S is the only position in the secondary that should bother people, and there's not really a great answer available in this draft.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 2244
Location: Kinston, NC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy. I'm a troll because someone disagrees with my opinion. I'd love to see evidence of Slowpoke running a 4.46 because every time I turn around, he's getting torched. I also seriously disagree with people who think he can play man.

Here's a great video of him playing man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVr3qjiOMI

I assume the excuse for this is that Safeties were supposed to help him, or he was giving too much of a cushion or something that's not his fault....yet the dude he's supposed to be covering scores a TD...easily and despite moving towards the ball, he can't seem to keep up with the receiver.

My intent is, obviously, not to anger people here but to point out the fact that Slowpoke really isn't the player a lot of you think he is or once was for that matter and it annoys me to no end the excuses people make for this guy because of a fluke season 3 years ago. That part is fact, not opinion, and when his own coach tells the media that his job isn't safe, that's kind of a strong indicator as well, is it not

So go ahead, call me a troll and a liar because I'm not a fan of your world-beater hero, but if he's back on the team this season and if(but more like when) he has a bad game. I will be back here waiting for the ridiculous excuses some of you provide.

and while you're stewing over that, here's some reading material for you. Might want to read the Richard Sherman retort and check the stat sheet...

http://www.totalpackers.com/2012/11/15/tramon-williams-starts-idiotic-feud-with-seattles-secondary/
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 4119
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
Oh boy. I'm a troll because someone disagrees with my opinion. I'd love to see evidence of Slowpoke running a 4.46 because every time I turn around, he's getting torched. I also seriously disagree with people who think he can play man.

Here's a great video of him playing man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVr3qjiOMI

I assume the excuse for this is that Safeties were supposed to help him, or he was giving too much of a cushion or something that's not his fault....yet the dude he's supposed to be covering scores a TD...easily and despite moving towards the ball, he can't seem to keep up with the receiver.

My intent is, obviously, not to anger people here but to point out the fact that Slowpoke really isn't the player a lot of you think he is or once was for that matter and it annoys me to no end the excuses people make for this guy because of a fluke season 3 years ago. That part is fact, not opinion, and when his own coach tells the media that his job isn't safe, that's kind of a strong indicator as well, is it not

So go ahead, call me a troll and a liar because I'm not a fan of your world-beater hero, but if he's back on the team this season and if(but more like when) he has a bad game. I will be back here waiting for the ridiculous excuses some of you provide.

and while you're stewing over that, here's some reading material for you. Might want to read the Richard Sherman retort and check the stat sheet...

http://www.totalpackers.com/2012/11/15/tramon-williams-starts-idiotic-feud-with-seattles-secondary/


Whether it annoys you or not- no one cares. It is the internet, you need to let that stuff go.

The fact that the coaches have said his job is not safe is a good thing, and everyone here wants to see the competition this summer to see if he can regain his physical form. It is not worth a knee jerk over reaction to either extreme. I do not think anyone is hinting at an extreme solution other than you.

No one here is calling him a world beater or hero. You are reaching and making yourself irrelevant by saying so.

No one here is stewing over it because you have an alternative opinion. You did not made a compelling enough argument to change our minds. Thus, we have already made up our mind and moved on.

Whether you are proven right or not, no one cares if somebody is proven right or wrong on the internet. You think you are Nostradamus or something? Everyone here knows that no one here is. We are hoping for what is best, and what is best is for T-Will to regain the physical demeanor he had before the shoulder injury. With the in-house competition, coaching staff asserting his starting job is not safe, and 7 million other reasons, there is plenty of motivation for him to figure it out this summer. It is better for the team if he does.
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CWood21


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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Seriously? Shocked

No one else is getting a little disturbed by this troll?


There are better ways to criticize those that you disagree with. Stick to football and not calling names.
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JDpacks_5


Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
Oh boy. I'm a troll because someone disagrees with my opinion. I'd love to see evidence of Slowpoke running a 4.46 because every time I turn around, he's getting torched. I also seriously disagree with people who think he can play man.

Here's a great video of him playing man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVr3qjiOMI

I assume the excuse for this is that Safeties were supposed to help him, or he was giving too much of a cushion or something that's not his fault....yet the dude he's supposed to be covering scores a TD...easily and despite moving towards the ball, he can't seem to keep up with the receiver.

My intent is, obviously, not to anger people here but to point out the fact that Slowpoke really isn't the player a lot of you think he is or once was for that matter and it annoys me to no end the excuses people make for this guy because of a fluke season 3 years ago. That part is fact, not opinion, and when his own coach tells the media that his job isn't safe, that's kind of a strong indicator as well, is it not

So go ahead, call me a troll and a liar because I'm not a fan of your world-beater hero, but if he's back on the team this season and if(but more like when) he has a bad game. I will be back here waiting for the ridiculous excuses some of you provide.

and while you're stewing over that, here's some reading material for you. Might want to read the Richard Sherman retort and check the stat sheet...

http://www.totalpackers.com/2012/11/15/tramon-williams-starts-idiotic-feud-with-seattles-secondary/


I know we could easily drop this but its a discussion board whats the fun in not chiming into the discussion.

So First off let me start off by saying Tramon Williams had a below average season. He did not get a lot of help from the safety spot as he did in the past and he did not have a lot of trust that they would be where they needed to be, because he got "burned" trusting them. He needs to step his game up when it comes to being more physical but as the interceptions stopped coming he got antsy and started jumping routes and stopped focusing on sound tackling.

But to describe that play that was inserted, which can be a common misconception from a lot of fans that are not paying attention to detail (which is quite understandable) We were in a 3-4 cover 3. You can see matthews playing the run then dropping in to the flat and brad jones doing the same on the other side. Tramon had deep coverage on his side morgan burnett had deep middle and peprah was playing a spot zone on the strong side. Eli does a great job of reading our defense as do most of the top QBs (mostly because of a lack of pass rush) and hits Nicks as soon as he hits the hole of our zone coverage, Peprah should have made that tackle, the next line of defense should have been Morgan Burnett driving on the play and then Tramon who was tripped up by Peprah and still recovers to catch up to Nicks who was in full speed.

When Tramon plays man he almost always plays press which is a easy tell for our defense. He plays a tad bit inside and his shoulders are square for a solid 3-5seconds (3-5step drop) which is obviously not the case here. His eyes are on the QB (standard zone technique) he is off man, and he turns his hips almost immediately. Trying to purposely force Nicks inside to where peprah should have the short pass and Morgan Burnett would have over the top. But again Eli made a good read and hit Nicks in the open field where the play ended up a TD due to bad tackling.

Tramon has all the ability in the world to be a Pro Bowl Caliber Starter in this league, He has the Attitude, Heart, Smarts, and Speed. Joe Whitt's Comments about competition... Well what else is he supposed to say after a lack luster season from his #1 CB? He is a coach, it is a motivational tactic to get the best out of one of his top guys that has lost his confidence, due to his shoulder injury and lack of trust from other positions where he was accustomed to great help (Nick Collins, Charles Woodson). You have to remember Joe Whitt was there before Tramon Williams became TRAYmon Williams. He has watched the kid blossom into a man and a fine starter and he is now watching him digress over a shoulder injury which has lead to a lack of confidence. He knows what Tramon is about and he is demanding for it because I'm sure he is getting heat from the higher ups (because of Tramons Salary). Joe Whitt is a great coach, HIGH CALIBER coach, and coaches get the best out of their players, and I think that is the whole reason for his "competition" comments.

You can say what you want about Tramon but his speed is the least of his issues. (Sam Shields has been beaten deep, does that mean he is also a "slowpoke", I think we can all agree he is one of the fastest players on the team)

At the end of the day I am a passionate packer fan and so are the people that comment and in the quote. We all want and expect top play from all positions and if Tramon can't get to that level again, well we need to go into a different direction and that is the approach we should have for all of the players.
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NCPackFan


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

name-calling aside, my point was that I don't get all the excuses put forward for Williams(hence the world-beater remark). Davon House had the same injury and was blasted for his play, yet Williams gets a pass? Really?

The double-standard is the issue here and with a pattern of Williams' poor play dating back to 2009, I just don't seem to understand why people are so high on him other than his 2010 season, where even then he had his moments if you catch my drift.

However, in bringing this up, there's the one excuse for Williams out there that does hold water and that's the play of the Safeties. We discussed this earlier in the thread. In each of our last 3 playoff losses and including every blowout loss we've had since 2009, we've had MASSIVE issues with whoever is playing safety.

Right now, our Safety corps consists of Morgan Burnett who led the team in tackles but has been rather inconsistent at times, MD Jennings who worked hard to earn his spot on the team but seems to be a rich man's version of Charlie Peprah, Jeron McMillian who had his moments as a rookie and could develop into a solid starter, and Sean Richardson who was Casey Hayward's teammate in college, but hardly saw the field.

We also have Jarrett Bush...

I strongly believe that Safety is a position of utmost need in this draft and we need to treat it as a secure investment; obviously reaching for a Safety would be idiotic, but the position sorely needs to be addressed.
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HyponGrey


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBF It doesn't seem Devo has any nerve damage, and Tray has higher man skill.

Safety is big.
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