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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 6207
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


Colts arm has zero chance of working in this offense


Agree with Wolfhunt. Disagree with candyman.

One of Chud's strengths supposedly is a willingness and ability to fit the scheme and game plan to the talent he has.

Weeden's one clear advantage (i.e., the oh-so enamoring "big arm") is largely negated by his lack of accuracy when throwing short or long.

Turner did just fine with a young Drew Brees, a QB many posters have identified as McCoy's ceiling.

To say McCoy has zero chance of succeeding in (an offensive designed by Chud and managed by Turner) is ludicrous.

McCoy outplayed Weeden last preseason and could do it again, especially under an honest competition run with integrity, in which case he is the starter.


I absolutely think that Weeden is a much more accurate passer everywhere, including short throws. He sucked last season, and I am not a fan of him, but Colt McCoy CONSTANTLY threw too low, high, behind, or in front, of receivers running short routes. He rarely hit receivers in stride and severely limited YAC opportunity. Hes just not good at throwing in any regards.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6905
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
bruceb wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


Colts arm has zero chance of working in this offense


Agree with Wolfhunt. Disagree with candyman.

One of Chud's strengths supposedly is a willingness and ability to fit the scheme and game plan to the talent he has.

Weeden's one clear advantage (i.e., the oh-so enamoring "big arm") is largely negated by his lack of accuracy when throwing short or long.

Turner did just fine with a young Drew Brees, a QB many posters have identified as McCoy's ceiling.

To say McCoy has zero chance of succeeding in (an offensive designed by Chud and managed by Turner) is ludicrous.

McCoy outplayed Weeden last preseason and could do it again, especially under an honest competition run with integrity, in which case he is the starter.


I absolutely think that Weeden is a much more accurate passer everywhere, including short throws. He sucked last season, and I am not a fan of him, but Colt McCoy CONSTANTLY threw too low, high, behind, or in front, of receivers running short routes. He rarely hit receivers in stride and severely limited YAC opportunity. Hes just not good at throwing in any regards.


McCoy had more zip on his throws last preseason.

And I think a lot of Weeden's limitations are the between his ears kind, which are difficult/impossible to fix.

I am not sure, hence why I want a genuine competition.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
bruceb wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


Colts arm has zero chance of working in this offense


Agree with Wolfhunt. Disagree with candyman.

One of Chud's strengths supposedly is a willingness and ability to fit the scheme and game plan to the talent he has.

Weeden's one clear advantage (i.e., the oh-so enamoring "big arm") is largely negated by his lack of accuracy when throwing short or long.

Turner did just fine with a young Drew Brees, a QB many posters have identified as McCoy's ceiling.

To say McCoy has zero chance of succeeding in (an offensive designed by Chud and managed by Turner) is ludicrous.

McCoy outplayed Weeden last preseason and could do it again, especially under an honest competition run with integrity, in which case he is the starter.


I absolutely think that Weeden is a much more accurate passer everywhere, including short throws. He sucked last season, and I am not a fan of him, but Colt McCoy CONSTANTLY threw too low, high, behind, or in front, of receivers running short routes. He rarely hit receivers in stride and severely limited YAC opportunity. Hes just not good at throwing in any regards.


McCoy had more zip on his throws last preseason.

And I think a lot of Weeden's limitations are the between his ears kind, which are difficult/impossible to fix.

I am not sure, hence why I want a genuine competition.


I like the idea of competition with Weeden. But only if it's with someone like Alex Smith. Colt offers no real competition to Weeden at all.
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
bruceb wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


Colts arm has zero chance of working in this offense


Agree with Wolfhunt. Disagree with candyman.

One of Chud's strengths supposedly is a willingness and ability to fit the scheme and game plan to the talent he has.

Weeden's one clear advantage (i.e., the oh-so enamoring "big arm") is largely negated by his lack of accuracy when throwing short or long.

Turner did just fine with a young Drew Brees, a QB many posters have identified as McCoy's ceiling.

To say McCoy has zero chance of succeeding in (an offensive designed by Chud and managed by Turner) is ludicrous.

McCoy outplayed Weeden last preseason and could do it again, especially under an honest competition run with integrity, in which case he is the starter.


I absolutely think that Weeden is a much more accurate passer everywhere, including short throws. He sucked last season, and I am not a fan of him, but Colt McCoy CONSTANTLY threw too low, high, behind, or in front, of receivers running short routes. He rarely hit receivers in stride and severely limited YAC opportunity. Hes just not good at throwing in any regards.


McCoy had more zip on his throws last preseason.

And I think a lot of Weeden's limitations are the between his ears kind, which are difficult/impossible to fix.

I am not sure, hence why I want a genuine competition.


I like the idea of competition with Weeden. But only if it's with someone like Alex Smith. Colt offers no real competition to Weeden at all.


I'm agreeing with entropy again.... Something is definitely amiss.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 6905
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
bruceb wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


Colts arm has zero chance of working in this offense


Agree with Wolfhunt. Disagree with candyman.

One of Chud's strengths supposedly is a willingness and ability to fit the scheme and game plan to the talent he has.

Weeden's one clear advantage (i.e., the oh-so enamoring "big arm") is largely negated by his lack of accuracy when throwing short or long.

Turner did just fine with a young Drew Brees, a QB many posters have identified as McCoy's ceiling.

To say McCoy has zero chance of succeeding in (an offensive designed by Chud and managed by Turner) is ludicrous.

McCoy outplayed Weeden last preseason and could do it again, especially under an honest competition run with integrity, in which case he is the starter.


I absolutely think that Weeden is a much more accurate passer everywhere, including short throws. He sucked last season, and I am not a fan of him, but Colt McCoy CONSTANTLY threw too low, high, behind, or in front, of receivers running short routes. He rarely hit receivers in stride and severely limited YAC opportunity. Hes just not good at throwing in any regards.


McCoy had more zip on his throws last preseason.

And I think a lot of Weeden's limitations are the between his ears kind, which are difficult/impossible to fix.

I am not sure, hence why I want a genuine competition.


I like the idea of competition with Weeden. But only if it's with someone like Alex Smith. Colt offers no real competition to Weeden at all.


I'm agreeing with entropy again.... Something is definitely amiss.


Yes, indeed...you have fallen to the dark side.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8428
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfhunt wrote:
I want to see a true QB competition. I want to see McCoy vs. Weeden and the winner is our starter. We go after a QB next year considering this years class is very weak.


I don't. I want to see them pick a Qb and stick with that Qb and give them every rep. Unless they clearly SUCK in the offseason, we need "our QB", whoever it is, to get all the work and havea chance to become a team leader, not some guy where other players look at him as "the guy who beat out another crappy guy"
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31191
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate how ppl are labeling him as a inaccurate passer. He started two years in college in a major football program and completed 70% of his passes. Has one bad year playing in a crap offense that didnt use him properly and he is labeled as a inaccurate passer. No a inaccurate passer is DA. He was a 50% passer in college and was the same in the NFL. It's not like his college scheme was a bunch of dump offs and screens. He was constantly attacking down the field.

So of the garbage ppl are spewing is garbage. Shurmur never properly used Weeden right. Always had him settling for the stupid underneath crossing route and having him looking for TRich.

Can we wait to pass a crap judgement when he gets placed in an offense that will properly use.

If Weeden doesn't fit a vertical offense then I have no idea what kind of a QB fits a vertical offense
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8428
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
I hate how ppl are labeling him as a inaccurate passer. He started two years in college in a major football program and completed 70% of his passes. Has one bad year playing in a crap offense that didnt use him properly and he is labeled as a inaccurate passer. No a inaccurate passer is DA. He was a 50% passer in college and was the same in the NFL. It's not like his college scheme was a bunch of dump offs and screens. He was constantly attacking down the field.

So of the garbage ppl are spewing is garbage. Shurmur never properly used Weeden right. Always had him settling for the stupid underneath crossing route and having him looking for TRich.

Can we wait to pass a crap judgement when he gets placed in an offense that will properly use.

If Weeden doesn't fit a vertical offense then I have no idea what kind of a QB fits a vertical offense


That and it's really hard to tell in a shurmur led offense if the QB is accurate or not. For all we know, Weeden threw the ball EXACTLY where he wanted it every play, but the level of dysfunction of the offense had the WR in the wrong spot.
I mean, I am willing to bet a fair % of the time our rookie and 2nd year WRs were not EXACTLY where they were supposed to be.
I also think with Weeden there were a fair number of player where he may have thrown it where he wanted, but it wasn't the rigth spot to throw to.

Accuracy is being able to throw it where you want to, but that's a small part of what's going on. Knowing where to throw is more important. It's also pretty important for the WRs to be where they are supposed to.

In a shurmur led offense, wow, who knows if anyone was doing what they were supposed to. It's impossible to tell.

I would like to see how these guys do with a real coordinator like Turner.
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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cortes02


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 2084
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
buno67 wrote:
if the price is right, i dont care how they bring him in, just as long the price is right but I want Alex Smith.

Him and Weeden can compete. If he cant beat out Weeden than we have a QB who beat out a very good vet QB who had exp in the offense and the browns now have a solid back up QB who could actually win us games if Weeden gets hurt. This now means Weeden will have a decent future in cleveland.

Now if Smith wins out, he should be the starter for at least 2-3 years and next offseason we draft the back up to replace him after a year or two


agree with the buno


Agree with Mistake who agrees with buno.


I have to admit that I am a little surprised that so many people want Alex Smith. From what I have seen of him over the years he seems to be a solid QB at best but not a difference maker so to speak. I can see him being a nice game manager but not the type of QB that can bring a team back from a big deficit if needed. Is that what the Browns or Browns fans want? Am I missing something?

Peace!!
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 8428
Location: Cleveland area
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cortes02 wrote:
roger murdock wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
buno67 wrote:
if the price is right, i dont care how they bring him in, just as long the price is right but I want Alex Smith.

Him and Weeden can compete. If he cant beat out Weeden than we have a QB who beat out a very good vet QB who had exp in the offense and the browns now have a solid back up QB who could actually win us games if Weeden gets hurt. This now means Weeden will have a decent future in cleveland.

Now if Smith wins out, he should be the starter for at least 2-3 years and next offseason we draft the back up to replace him after a year or two


agree with the buno


Agree with Mistake who agrees with buno.


I have to admit that I am a little surprised that so many people want Alex Smith. From what I have seen of him over the years he seems to be a solid QB at best but not a difference maker so to speak. I can see him being a nice game manager but not the type of QB that can bring a team back from a big deficit if needed. Is that what the Browns or Browns fans want? Am I missing something?

Peace!!


I would take Smith over what we have, and be happy with him until we find a better replacement, like San Fran did
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2014 draft prediction:

Zero chance the Browns draft a QB at pick 4, or trade up for a QB.

And Matt Ryan is so great he has one playoff win.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31191
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cortes02 wrote:

I have to admit that I am a little surprised that so many people want Alex Smith. From what I have seen of him over the years he seems to be a solid QB at best but not a difference maker so to speak. I can see him being a nice game manager but not the type of QB that can bring a team back from a big deficit if needed. Is that what the Browns or Browns fans want? Am I missing something?


See with Alex Smith, we wouldnt be asking him to be a difference maker. He be asked to make a big play here or there. the Browns difference maker will be TRich, we just need a QB who can make an opposing defense pay if they load the book and the past two seasons, Smith has done that for Frank Gore. Just looking at Smith, he looks like the perfect transition QB for a franchise. He can come in and play well for you until your young QB is ready to take over.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
I hate how ppl are labeling him as a inaccurate passer. He started two years in college in a major football program and completed 70% of his passes. Has one bad year playing in a crap offense that didnt use him properly and he is labeled as a inaccurate passer. No a inaccurate passer is DA. He was a 50% passer in college and was the same in the NFL. It's not like his college scheme was a bunch of dump offs and screens. He was constantly attacking down the field.

So of the garbage ppl are spewing is garbage. Shurmur never properly used Weeden right. Always had him settling for the stupid underneath crossing route and having him looking for TRich.

Can we wait to pass a crap judgement when he gets placed in an offense that will properly use.

If Weeden doesn't fit a vertical offense then I have no idea what kind of a QB fits a vertical offense


I agree with EVERYTHING in this post....I am SO GLAD SHERMER is gone and Childress with him.....That things that REALLY sealed the deal for him in my eyes....was week 15 vs the Skins......1rs quarter Trench Richardson 2 TD's on 11 touches.....Richardson finishes the game with 14 touches...and not that he was hurt....because he played the rest of the game...in fact those other 3 touches came in the 4th quater.....
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Productiondawg


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@KeithBritton86: Source has told me #Browns are one of the teams #49ers QB Alex Smith is interested in.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Productiondawg wrote:
@KeithBritton86: Source has told me #Browns are one of the teams #49ers QB Alex Smith is interested in.


Top 3 LT.
Top 5 C.
Potential top 5 RB.
Potential top 15 WR as well as a great option in Little.
Offensive co-ordinator is one of the best in the league and has worked with him for a full season before.
One of the better offensive minds in the league at HC.
Maybe even a defense under Horton that doesn't force him to chase games.

Can definitely see why he would be interested. Just add a nice TE (which I think will happen considering Chud and Norv's propensity for the position) and Cleveland could be a great fit for Smith.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Caplin added a couple q.b's we may go after besides Alex Smith. Brian Hoyer and Chase Daniels. Yhoughts?
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