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Which top ILB prospect do you feel is the best fit for the Ravens in this class?
Arthur Brown Jr.
46%
 46%  [ 6 ]
Kevin Minter
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
Manti Te'O
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
AJ Klein
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Gerald Hodges
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Kevin Reddick
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Alec Ogletree
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Khaseem Greene
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Michael Mauti
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Nico Johnson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 13

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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: DB424s ILB analysis Reply with quote

I just went back and looked at the tape on a few of the 'top' named ILBs in this draft. And here's what I came up with:

1. Arthur Brown
There are things where he lags behind the other ILBs in this big three, but simply put... you can't teach his elite athleticism. Brown has elite burst, elite speed, elite agility... it's simply astounding. Combined with his elite instincts and his strength for his size... and I think there is no amount of athleticism an opposing offense can throw out there that can make him struggle to handle it... and that is why Brown is #1 on my list.

Ray Lewis came out and took the league by storm not because of simply having elite instincts and being downhill attacking linebacker, but because he also had elite game speed that simply could not be overwhelmed. Brown has elite game speed in every facet, much like Lewis. Other linebackers can be found in later rounds to be true thumpers if necessary, but Brown doesn't lack in ability to take on blocks... he'll occasionally be removed from a play, but generally he either knifes a block or is able to stand it up while shedding it. It's a weakness to his game, but it's not a liability area.

But what's most important is that Brown attacks the LOS with his elite instincts and has the speed that won't have him being overwhelmed with a Jamaal Charles or CJ2k, the elite COD skills that won't have him being overwhelmed by a LeSean McCoy or a Ray Rice. The elite speed that can have him lineup against an Aaron Hernandez or a slot receiver and matchup as well as any LBer can dream of matching up.

2. Kevin Minter
LSU has a great defense. That being said, Minter IMO consistently stood out and looked like the best player they had to offer this season. Part of that is his teammates funneling things toward him for him to clean up... but that's only part of the equation. He possesses both the ability to move around a block to make a play and to simply take on the blocker and push him back into the RB. He's almost as sturdy against the run as Dont'a Hightower in that respect. Probably the 2nd best I've seen in recent years in that quality.

Minter also has very good athleticism. He has the speed to compete with most athletes on the field in 1on1 situations as long as his teammates play their part in contain. Minter is truly impressive in all areas. In coverage he doesn't look overwhelmed and has nice instincts in that area. Minter can play all the snaps and has IMO one of the most important traits in an ILB, one that proves a player has elite instincts or not, he has the ability to attack the LOS to make plays. He reminds me a lot of Jerod Mayo- might even be better. He's probably the most 'complete' ILB in this class. You certainly can't go wrong with him.

3. Manti Te'O
I'm not dropping him due to that Catfish fiasco but because other players showed to be better options IMO. Manti's instincts are 2nd to none in this class however. He and Brown probably have the best feel for the game in this class of ILBs that I've seen (and perhaps Klein). Te'O has athleticism on the same level as Minter. He's a very good athlete. Actually Te'O and Minter look very similar as players, the only difference that I found was Te'O has superior instincts in coverage, while Minter was superior in his ability to attack blockers and make a play.

Usually, with today's professional game being what it is, that would have the victor going to the better pass defender, but two things... at this point last season Te'O was not this developed, so Minter could obviously improve in that area... plus that difference in instincts is a much smaller gap than Minter has over Te'O in his ability to take on blocks/his physicality. Te'O is probably similar to Brown in his ability to take on blocks, not elite, probably above average.. but can be washed out of a play from time to time.

4. AJ Klein
I love this guy as a player. He's so instinctual out there. He has the athleticism to match the big three of this class. He doesn't lack behind in virtually any respect. He's very explosive. The only reason I don't have him higher is I haven't seen as much of him as I've seen of the other guys. But make no mistake, Klein is going to be a player... and he has probowl potential.

5. Gerald Hodges
He's one of the best athletes in this class, but he's no Arthur Brown. He has somewhat of a frail frame, his COD skills are slightly below where you'd want them to be for his size, but they're still 'good'. Outside of that, he can play in coverage and be 'good', he has great instincts, tracks the ball very well, will attack the LOS when he knows he can make the play, he tackles well... and makes plays. He may or may not be a probowler. I think it depends on the situation he's put into. Either way, I think he is going to be one of the better LBers the league has to offer. I'm also very comfortable with him from a leadership and 'intangible' perspective. I'm not worried about him slacking and underachieving to his talents- which high in the draft, I think is an important quality.
-----
Outside of these fives guys, I looked at Alec Ogletree, Khaseem Greene, Nico Johnson, and Kevin Reddick. All of those guys brought question marks to the table. I wasn't really a fan of any of them tbqh.

Alec Ogletree has the elite burst, has very good speed, but his COD skills are lacking IMO. Its one of the reasons why I questioned his athleticism earlier in the process. When he sees a play and its in his sights, he has the burst to get there, but generally he has a retreating skillset. I hate seeing ILBers retreat. He's always trying to keep things in front of him... and because of it, you'll see offenses get 5-6-7 yard gains when they're able to remove those giant DTs out of the play and get blockers moving towards the secondary. Ogletree does not have a natural feel for the position- his instincts are average at best. He has the athleticism to be successful, but his instincts will never allow him to be better than above average to 'good' IMO. He's also not stout. He gets pushed back too often when his DL doesn't keep him clean. He just doesn't look like an ILB. He looks like a SS playing so far up in the box that he's standing where the ILB should be standing. If he were indeed a SS, I think his play is impressive against the run, but as an ILB- it's not. Also for a former DB, his coverage is very good, but again, his instincts aren't adjusted to playing as close to the line it seems. You'd think he'd have a clear advantage over the other ILBs in this class, but in reality he's about as good as Brown... and better than most of the other ILBs, but it's no gaping advantage. It's not enough to make up for his average ability in some other areas.

Khaseem Greene is better as a linebacker in comparison to Ogletree. Looks more comfortable playing inside, but again, he doesn't attack the LOS. He lets plays come to him and more often than not, I see too many 4-5-6 yard gains because of it. He's also not much better at taking on blocks than Ogletree from what I've seen. He sheds better, but I also think he gets washed out of plays too often. He's also not as good in coverage as Ogletree. He's a passive ILB just like Ogletree, only he's not as passive.. a little more instinctual, but less athletic overall. I'm also not familiar with him from an intangible aspect. That could help or hurt him. All this said, I still haven't looked at all of his tape yet. So I'm still partially undecided on him.

Kevin Reddick by far looks like the most comfortable of these players. And actually when it comes down to playing against the run, I thought his play was pretty comparable to the players in the top 5... he looks pretty darn good in that capacity. He's probably as good as Hodges in that respect. I was ready to make him 5b to Hodges... until I saw him in coverage. He simply didn't have the coverage instincts that you look for and that usually those NC linebackers have. He has the athleticism that you look for... so I thought he'd be better in that area, but he just looked very hesitant in that area of his game. If he can develop his 'feel' in that area somehow, he could become a really good player, but as it stands, he's more Bart Scott- like. A really good thumper with some nice athleticism to him. You probably should blitz him if you're keeping him in there on 3rd down more often than not because he's going to be a liability in coverage FTMP. That said, I'd still take him over these other guys. Because I trust in his ability to translate his skillset to the next level better than these other guys.

Nico Johnson is simply a disappointment. He has the top notch athleticism for his size that you look for, but simply doesn't have the instincts to be particularly good. He's probably just an average to above average player at the next level. He's just a much more natural athlete than a natural football player. Like Ogletree and Green, he probably won't fail at the next level because of his athleticism... but I also don't see the instincts that would lead me to believe he will be anything more than a solid starter. Johnson is clearly the worst player in this grouping. I wouldn't touch him until the 4th or 5th round. I'd much rather the roll the dice on Michael Mauti in those rounds with his health issues, than to take a player who looks as mediocre as Johnson does.

1st Round fits
1. Brown
2. Minter
3. Te'O

2nd Round fits
4. Klein

5. Hodges

2nd- 4th round fits
6. Reddick
7. Ogletree
8. Greene
9*. Michael Mauti (only this low because of injuries)

5th round or later
10. Nico Johnson (... and there has to be someone better, I'm only placing him here because I've failed to look at more options)

How would you guys rank this ILB class?
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alfalcone


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 1394
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: DB424s ILB analysis Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I just went back and looked at the tape on a few of the 'top' named ILBs in this draft. And here's what I came up with:

1. Arthur Brown- There are things where he lags behind the other ILBs in this big three, but simply put... you can't teach his elite athleticism. Brown has elite burst, elite speed, elite agility... it's simply astounding. Combined with his elite instincts and his strength for his size... and I think there is no amount of athleticism an opposing offense can throw out there that can make him struggle to handle it... and that is why Brown is #1 on my list.

Ray Lewis came out and took the league by storm not because of simply having elite instincts and being downhill attacking linebacker, but because he also had elite game speed that simply could not be overwhelmed. Brown has elite game speed in every facet, much like Lewis. Other linebackers can be found in later rounds to be true thumpers if necessary, but Brown doesn't lack in ability to take on blocks... he'll occasionally be removed from a play, but generally he either knifes a block or is able to stand it up while shedding it. It's a weakness to his game, but it's not a liability area.

But what's most important is that Brown attacks the LOS with his elite instincts and has the speed that won't have him being overwhelmed with a Jamaal Charles or CJ2k, the elite COD skills that won't have him being overwhelmed by a LeSean McCoy or a Ray Rice. The elite speed that can have him lineup against an Aaron Hernandez or a slot receiver and matchup as well as any LBer can dream of matching up.

2. Kevin Minter- LSU has a great defense. That being said, Minter IMO consistently stood out and looked like the best player they had to offer this season. Part of that is his teammates funneling things toward him for him to clean up... but that's only part of the equation. He possesses both the ability to move around a block to make a play and to simply take on the blocker and push him back into the RB. He's almost as sturdy against the run as Dont'a Hightower in that respect. Probably the 2nd best I've seen in recent years in that quality.

Minter also has very good athleticism. He has the speed to compete with most athletes on the field in 1on1 situations as long as his teammates play their part in contain. Minter is truly impressive in all areas. In coverage he doesn't look overwhelmed and has nice instincts in that area. Minter can play all the snaps and has IMO one of the most important traits in an ILB, one that proves a player has elite instincts or not, he has the ability to attack the LOS to make plays. He reminds me a lot of Jerod Mayo- might even be better. He's probably the most 'complete' ILB in this class. You certainly can't go wrong with him.

3. Manti Te'O- I'm not dropping him due to that Catfish fiasco but because other players showed to be better options IMO. Manti's instincts are 2nd to none in this class however. He and Brown probably have the best feel for the game in this class of ILBs that I've seen (and perhaps Klein). Te'O has athleticism on the same level as Minter. He's a very good athlete. Actually Te'O and Minter look very similar as players, the only difference that I found was Te'O has superior instincts in coverage, while Minter was superior in his ability to attack blockers and make a play.

Usually, with today's professional game being what it is, that would have the victor going to the better pass defender, but two things... at this point last season Te'O was not this developed, so Minter could obviously improve in that area... plus that difference in instincts is a much smaller gap than Minter has over Te'O in his ability to take on blocks/his physicality. Te'O is probably similar to Brown in his ability to take on blocks, not elite, probably above average.. but can be washed out of a play from time to time.

4. AJ Klein- I love this guy as a player. He's so instinctual out there. He has the athleticism to match the big three of this class. He doesn't lack behind in virtually any respect. He's very explosive. The only reason I don't have him higher is I haven't seen as much of him as I've seen of the other guys. But make no mistake, Klein is going to be a player... and he has probowl potential.

5. Gerald Hodges- He's one of the best athletes in this class, but he's no Arthur Brown. He has somewhat of a frail frame, his COD skills are slightly below where you'd want them to be for his size, but they're still 'good'. Outside of that, he can play in coverage and be 'good', he has great instincts, tracks the ball very well, will attack the LOS when he knows he can make the play, he tackles well... and makes plays. He may or may not be a probowler. I think it depends on the situation he's put into. Either way, I think he is going to be one of the better LBers the league has to offer. I'm also very comfortable with him from a leadership and 'intangible' perspective. I'm not worried about him slacking and underachieving to his talents- which high in the draft, I think is an important quality.

Outside of these fives guys, I looked at Alec Ogletree, Khaseem Greene, Nico Johnson, and Kevin Reddick. All of those guys brought question marks to the table. I wasn't really a fan of any of them tbqh.

Ogletree has the elite burst, has very good speed, but his COD skills are lacking IMO. Its one of the reasons why I questioned his athleticism earlier in the process. When he sees a play and its in his sights, he has the burst to get there, but generally he has a retreating skillset. I hate seeing ILBers retreat. He's always trying to keep things in front of him... and because of it, you'll see offenses get 5-6-7 yard gains when they're able to remove those giant DTs out of the play and get blockers moving towards the secondary. Ogletree does not have a natural feel for the position- his instincts are average at best. He has the athleticism to be successful, but his instincts will never allow him to be better than above average to 'good' IMO. He's also not stout. He gets pushed back too often when his DL doesn't keep him clean. He just doesn't look like an ILB. He looks like a SS playing so far up in the box that he's standing where the ILB should be standing. If he were indeed a SS, I think his play is impressive against the run, but as an ILB- it's not. Also for a former DB, his coverage is very good, but again, his instincts aren't adjusted to playing as close to the line it seems. You'd think he'd have a clear advantage over the other ILBs in this class, but in reality he's about as good as Brown... and better than most of the other ILBs, but it's no gaping advantage. It's not enough to make up for his average ability in some other areas.

Khaseem Greene is better as a linebacker in comparison to Ogletree. Looks more comfortable playing inside, but again, he doesn't attack the LOS. He lets plays come to him and more often than not, I see too many 4-5-6 yard gains because of it. He's also not much better at taking on blocks than Ogletree from what I've seen. He sheds better, but I also think he gets washed out of plays too often. He's also not as good in coverage as Ogletree. He's a passive ILB just like Ogletree, only he's not as passive.. a little more instinctual, but less athletic overall. I'm also not familiar with him from an intangible aspect. That could help or hurt him. All this said, I still haven't looked at all of his tape yet. So I'm still partially undecided on him.

Kevin Reddick by far looks like the most comfortable of these players. And actually when it comes down to playing against the run, I thought his play was pretty comparable to the players in the top 5... he looks pretty darn good in that capacity. He's probably as good as Hodges in that respect. I was ready to make him 5b to Hodges... until I saw him in coverage. He simply didn't have the coverage instincts that you look for and that usually those NC linebackers have. He has the athleticism that you look for... so I thought he'd be better in that area, but he just looked very hesitant in that area of his game. If he can develop his 'feel' in that area somehow, he could become a really good player, but as it stands, he's more Bart Scott- like. A really good thumper with some nice athleticism to him. You probably should blitz him if you're keeping him in there on 3rd down more often than not because he's going to be a liability in coverage FTMP. That said, I'd still take him over these other guys. Because I trust in his ability to translate his skillset to the next level better than these other guys.

Nico Johnson is simply a disappointment. He has the top notch athleticism for his size that you look for, but simply doesn't have the instincts to be particularly good. He's probably just an average to above average player at the next level. He's just a much more natural athlete than a natural football player. Like Ogletree and Green, he probably won't fail at the next level because of his athleticism... but I also don't see the instincts that would lead me to believe he will be anything more than a solid starter. Johnson is clearly the worst player in this grouping. I wouldn't touch him until the 4th or 5th round. I'd much rather the roll the dice on Michael Mauti in those rounds with his health issues, than to take a player who looks as mediocre as Johnson does.

1st Round talents
1. Brown
2. Minter
3. Te'O

2nd Round Talents
4. Klein

5. Hodges

3rd- 4th round Talents
6. Reddick
7. Ogletree
8. Greene
9*. Michael Mauti (only this low because of injuries)

5th round or later
10. Nico Johnson (... and there has to be someone better, I'm only placing him here because I've failed to look at more options)

How would you guys rank this ILB class?


I think Ogletree is the best fit, he's new to the position, has great range and explosiveness, and plays violently, but I think Brown presents the best value - he should be available in round 2-3.
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KiddKillah


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest Arthur Brown fan I've ever seen Laughing

I watched the WV tape and he reminds me of a baby Patrick Willis. Natural instincts - great tackler - very aggressive. He's going to "wow" the combine with his athleticism. His stock will definitely rise into the latter portion of the 1st round (I see his stock at middle 2nd right now).

If Manti Te'o happens to fall to 31/32...that's the guy I ultimately want. I don't care about his catfish personal life...that has nothing to do with his play on the field. His personal life shouldn't even be discussed in the first place -- but that's one thing I'm worried about. He seems to let things get to him and could ultimately cause a distraction for whatever team drafts him and his play. But all that aside...Te'o is definitely the best coverage linebacker I've ever seen...EVER. His instincts are there with Brown (may not be as athletic as Brown) but I would say he's a better tackler and much better in run support.

Ogletree and Minter are two guys I love but I'm starting to believe both benefits from their prolific counter parts on defense. But still two guys I think will be above-average insides at the next level.

So I rank the inside linebacker class like this...

1. Manti Te'o
2. Alec Ogletree
3. Kevin Minter
4. Arthur Brown
5. Khaseem Greene
6. Jon Bostic
7. Kevin Reddick
8. Vince Williams
9. Nico Johnson
10. A.J. Klein

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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on the AJ Klein bandwagon since early in the season.

Athletically he stacks up well against all the other premier prospects in regard to size and speed.

I like the fact that he's a playmaker, scoring 4 TDs off interception returns (tied for the NCAA record for LBs--3 of 69+ yards) and averaging 115 tackles per season for the last 3 years. He was a co-DPOY in the Big 12 in 2011, a team captain, and was a 2 time academic All-America.

When I saw ISU play this year, he was always around the ball, so he has a good motor and high level instincts that put him in the proper position most of the time.

I also think the "X" factor in his game us that he has never been afforded the luxury of playing with NFL caliber teammates like many of the other ILB prospects and was still able to shine, and with talent like Reed, Suggs and Ngata around him, he could turn into a very special player. At worst, I could see him being similar to someone like Chad Greenway at ILB (not the best comparison because of positions, but he has similar skills).

Overall, I don't think we can go wrong with any of Brown, Minter or Klein, but I think Klein gives us the opportunity to grab one of the better pass rushers first while still addressing the repacement for Ray Lewis in the middle with a quality player who is less highly publicized than the other candidates at the top of the draft.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KiddKillah wrote:
The biggest Arthur Brown fan I've ever seen Laughing

Yeah, well... Minter was close. I almost went and put him over Brown because of his immense physicality, but Brown's speed is just..
Shocked

That simply can't be taught or coached. It's astounding.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
I've been on the AJ Klein bandwagon since early in the season.

Athletically he stacks up well against all the other premier prospects in regard to size and speed.

I like the fact that he's a playmaker, scoring 4 TDs off interception returns (tied for the NCAA record for LBs--3 of 69+ yards) and averaging 115 tackles per season for the last 3 years. He was a co-DPOY in the Big 12 in 2011, a team captain, and was a 2 time academic All-America.

When I saw ISU play this year, he was always around the ball, so he has a good motor and high level instincts that put him in the proper position most of the time.

I also think the "X" factor in his game us that he has never been afforded the luxury of playing with NFL caliber teammates like many of the other ILB prospects and was still able to shine, and with talent like Reed, Suggs and Ngata around him, he could turn into a very special player. At worst, I could see him being similar to someone like Chad Greenway at ILB (not the best comparison because of positions, but he has similar skills).

Overall, I don't think we can go wrong with any of Brown, Minter or Klein, but I think Klein gives us the opportunity to grab one of the better pass rushers first while still addressing the repacement for Ray Lewis in the middle with a quality player who is less highly publicized than the other candidates at the top of the draft.

No love for Te'O?

And yeah... I think even after Klein opens up eyes after the combine, he's still probably going to be a guy we could have a shot at with our 2nd round pick. I think that's tremendous value, considering I think talent wise, he has the skillset to go first and I wouldn't question it. This draft is the deepest draft at ILB that I can remember seeing in recent memory. Some of that is populated with players that I don't like... but still, it should help the guys I like fall down the ladder for us to nab below 'market value'.

EDIT: I know you saw his game earlier in the year, but he also has tape from the East-West Shrine Game and watching the Tavon Austin tape you can locate him making plays.
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gooselovechild


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
I've been on the AJ Klein bandwagon since early in the season.

Athletically he stacks up well against all the other premier prospects in regard to size and speed.

I like the fact that he's a playmaker, scoring 4 TDs off interception returns (tied for the NCAA record for LBs--3 of 69+ yards) and averaging 115 tackles per season for the last 3 years. He was a co-DPOY in the Big 12 in 2011, a team captain, and was a 2 time academic All-America.

When I saw ISU play this year, he was always around the ball, so he has a good motor and high level instincts that put him in the proper position most of the time.

I also think the "X" factor in his game us that he has never been afforded the luxury of playing with NFL caliber teammates like many of the other ILB prospects and was still able to shine, and with talent like Reed, Suggs and Ngata around him, he could turn into a very special player. At worst, I could see him being similar to someone like Chad Greenway at ILB (not the best comparison because of positions, but he has similar skills).

Overall, I don't think we can go wrong with any of Brown, Minter or Klein, but I think Klein gives us the opportunity to grab one of the better pass rushers first while still addressing the repacement for Ray Lewis in the middle with a quality player who is less highly publicized than the other candidates at the top of the draft.

No love for Te'O?

And yeah... I think even after Klein opens up eyes after the combine, he's still probably going to be a guy we could have a shot at with our 2nd round pick. I think that's tremendous value, considering I think talent wise, he has the skillset to go first and I wouldn't question it. This draft is the deepest draft at ILB that I can remember seeing in recent memory. Some of that is populated with players that I don't like... but still, it should help the guys I like fall down the ladder for us to nab below 'market value'.


I don't honestly think he'll be available anywhere close to our pick, and quite honestly, I'm ok with that.

I think he benefits quite a bit from the Notre Dame factor, that if he played at a school that doesn't get the tv coverage they do that he would probably be a 2nd-3rd round prospect, and deservedly so. I just don't see what a lot of other people do in his game to make him a probable top 15 pick.

Then throw in the dead fake girlfriend thing, and I have to question how he'll assimilate into a locker room full of Alpha males as the replacement for, arguably, the best player ever at his position, let alone be a leader on the field. And then, to make matters worse, he'll have to hear about it at every road game from the fans and even the media. I question if he is mentally tough enough to withstand that, because no matter what anyone says, it looks like it affected him against Alabama.

I view him as good, but not particularly special like I think Brown, Minter or Klein could be.

But you know what they say about opinions.......
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooselovechild wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
gooselovechild wrote:
I've been on the AJ Klein bandwagon since early in the season.

Athletically he stacks up well against all the other premier prospects in regard to size and speed.

I like the fact that he's a playmaker, scoring 4 TDs off interception returns (tied for the NCAA record for LBs--3 of 69+ yards) and averaging 115 tackles per season for the last 3 years. He was a co-DPOY in the Big 12 in 2011, a team captain, and was a 2 time academic All-America.

When I saw ISU play this year, he was always around the ball, so he has a good motor and high level instincts that put him in the proper position most of the time.

I also think the "X" factor in his game us that he has never been afforded the luxury of playing with NFL caliber teammates like many of the other ILB prospects and was still able to shine, and with talent like Reed, Suggs and Ngata around him, he could turn into a very special player. At worst, I could see him being similar to someone like Chad Greenway at ILB (not the best comparison because of positions, but he has similar skills).

Overall, I don't think we can go wrong with any of Brown, Minter or Klein, but I think Klein gives us the opportunity to grab one of the better pass rushers first while still addressing the repacement for Ray Lewis in the middle with a quality player who is less highly publicized than the other candidates at the top of the draft.

No love for Te'O?

And yeah... I think even after Klein opens up eyes after the combine, he's still probably going to be a guy we could have a shot at with our 2nd round pick. I think that's tremendous value, considering I think talent wise, he has the skillset to go first and I wouldn't question it. This draft is the deepest draft at ILB that I can remember seeing in recent memory. Some of that is populated with players that I don't like... but still, it should help the guys I like fall down the ladder for us to nab below 'market value'.


I don't honestly think he'll be available anywhere close to our pick, and quite honestly, I'm ok with that.

I think he benefits quite a bit from the Notre Dame factor, that if he played at a school that doesn't get the tv coverage they do that he would probably be a 2nd-3rd round prospect, and deservedly so. I just don't see what a lot of other people do in his game to make him a probable top 15 pick.

Then throw in the dead fake girlfriend thing, and I have to question how he'll assimilate into a locker room full of Alpha males as the replacement for, arguably, the best player ever at his position, let alone be a leader on the field. And then, to make matters worse, he'll have to hear about it at every road game from the fans and even the media. I question if he is mentally tough enough to withstand that, because no matter what anyone says, it looks like it affected him against Alabama.

I view him as good, but not particularly special like I think Brown, Minter or Klein could be.

But you know what they say about opinions.......

I thought that before hand. But I think the factors that you talk about later on in your post will see him fall. Much of what elevated him into a top 10-15 pick wasn't just his talent, but many were elevating him due to his intangibles. But now that his intangibles are in question... he'll likely fall back to where he would've been if the Lennay Kakkua story had never hyped him and his intangibles so high in the process... the only difference is now, he has competition that has emerged.

And yeah, he was clearly distracted with preparation for the Alabama game, but that was a very trying time. I think moving forward you put Te'O into a strong locker room and that situation now acts as a building block to strengthening him. If you're a team and you believe his side of the story and you do your research and you believe him... well, I see a guy who is still of high integrity. I still see a guy who can lead people because he cares about them. And really, I think Te'O is going to fall down the draft some... and whoever selects him is going to get a highly motivated Te'O looking to prove the doubters wrong.

Honestly, my top 4 ILB prospects are all so close. I love what I see from Minter, but I also don't know much about him from an intangible aspect. I'm much more comfortable with the other three guys in that respect at this point in the process. But yeah, I'd love to have any of those 4 guys... I don't care which one. I prefer Brown... and I love the fact that most seem to think low enough on him that he could be available with a small trade up in the 2nd round.

With regard to Te'O not being considered special and being a 2nd/3rd rounder. I definitely can't agree. I suppose you'd have to expound upon that opinion. All I see is Te'O making plays since he got to Notre Dame. I thought last year that had he come out he was clearly the 2nd best ILB available. He only got better since then. I can understand a late 1st round grade on him, I just don't understand a late 2nd round grade on him. I suppose you'd have to expound upon your opinion in that respect for me to understand it.
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Go_Ravens2


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case anyone is interested, Bucky Brooks just posted an updated Mock Draft. As far as ILBs go, he has:

Alec Ogletree being the first selected going 21st to the Bengals
Manti Te'O being the second selected going 26th to the Packers
Kevin Minter being the third selected going 31st to the Ravens

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/bucky-brooks/160100?module=HP11_content_stream

The obvious problem with his draft is he has the Ravens picking 31st when we will be picking 32nd Cool
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind it's Bucky Brooks. That one doesn't look too bad though.

As for the topic, I would be pretty happy with any of Te'o, Brown, or Minter in the first round if one the pass-rushers I like isn't available. I'm placing them more into tiers at the moment than numerical rankings. I've been going back and forth lately about who I would ultimately prefer first out of those three but generally I have them in the order I listed above. There's not a lot of separation though. Minter is probably the most versatile but Teo's instincts and Brown's athleticism are awesome too. I don't think any of them have any real glaring weaknesses. If Ellerbe is re-signed like I expect him to be the best compliment for him would be Brown but Te'o and Minter would work pretty well next to him too.

Greene is just a step below from those three in my opinion. I like him better than Ogletree although he's not too far behind. Both have some skills at that position that Baltimore has been lacking for a long time. They're solid second round targets from my point of view at the moment.

I still have some work to do on Klein, Hodges, and Mauti. Bostic falls into that group too although from what I've seen so far he would be just a meh 3rd-4th round pick. Not bad and not great. Reddick doesn't interest me much and I've made my feelings on Johnson known.

A guy at the Senior Bowl that really caught my eye was Zaviar Gooden. He's probably a better fit as a "pure" 4-3 WLB but the Ravens could use a guy like him regardless. He's in the same mold as Greene and Ogletree but probably more athletic than either of them.

I'm almost fully expecting the Ravens to come away with an ILB in the first three rounds of the draft. With the talent and depth available there's no reason for them not to especially when it's a position of need. The same goes for a pass-rusher although that's getting a little off topic.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I edited my original post. I changed the term from 'talents' to 'fits', as I feel it gets across the fact that it's how I view these guys impacting our defense... and I edited the post to have my third tier of players stretching from the 2nd-4th as opposed to just 3rd-4th.

My first round guys, my opinion is just about made up on those guys. There really isn't much that will change my mind with them at this point outside of Minter's intangibles... which I'm not familiar with his character.

Klein and both LBers from Penn State, I've made up my mind on. I love Mauti as a player... and on ability and instincts, I think he's a 2nd round guy. But the injury factor is just too concerning at this point. Nico Johnson I've made up my mind on. But between Reddick, Greene, and Ogletree... I'll leave open the door some. As of right now, I think Greene and Ogletree are guys that I wouldn't take until the early 3rd- value wise.

@c0 I remember looking at tape of Zaviar Gooden at the beginning of the year and not being impressed... though I can't remember why I wasn't impressed. Probably didn't attack the LOS or maybe he didn't hustle like how I thought he should. I'll have to revisit his tape and read up on his senior bowl practices.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: DB424s ILB analysis Reply with quote

I'd probably go with Minter over Brown if they were both there, but only just.

I haven't really watched all that much Te'o because I always assumed that he'd be out of our reach considering all the hype he was getting so I don't know if I'd take him over the other 2.

diamondbull424 wrote:
10. Nico Johnson (... and there has to be someone better, I'm only placing him here because I've failed to look at more options)

Shane Skov & Kiko Alonso would definitely be higher imo and UF guys Jon Bostic and Jelani Jenkins would probably be around 3rd-5th round value.

Sio Moore (UConn) is probably someone worth taking a closer look at too
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: DB424s ILB analysis Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
I'd probably go with Minter over Brown if they were both there, but only just.

I haven't really watched all that much Te'o because I always assumed that he'd be out of our reach considering all the hype he was getting so I don't know if I'd take him over the other 2.

diamondbull424 wrote:
10. Nico Johnson (... and there has to be someone better, I'm only placing him here because I've failed to look at more options)

Shane Skov & Kiko Alonso would definitely be higher imo and UF guys Jon Bostic and Jelani Jenkins would probably be around 3rd-5th round value.

Sio Moore (UConn) is probably someone worth taking a closer look at too

I was just getting back on here to scold myself for forgetting Skov- for some reason. He's definitely in my 2nd tier of players, though I'm still a little undecided on him. He'd be just above or below Gerald Hodges.

With regard to Alonso, I honestly haven't paid him any attention to this point, though I've heard good things about him.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen every Rutgers game this season and I think Greene isn't the best fit for our defense. To me, he looks like an ideal weakside OLB in a 4-3.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skov is returning back to school, for anyone who didn't know.
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